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Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #1 Posted 03 March 2018 - 08:17 PM

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I've been getting this line directed at me from several players, usually after I comment if not foolishly salt at them for what I feel is exploiting how the game handles flights; in particular GAA plus GA / bomber / [X].

And yeah, Warplanes is a game; neither is it however a simulation title where I would (should) expect overwhelmingly lopsided unit lineups, abysmal support, and inequitable ''RNG'' & performance characteristics.

 

More often than not though I rarely, basically never, see these same players flying anything (nor in their battle results list) that isn't perfect for the meta, and I almost never (if ever) see them not in a flight.

Expecting me to roll over and laugh off being regularly curbstomped multiple times per session, day after day every single week and quite often by the same few players, is not realistic.

If that was happening only once or twice a day, and not every day, I could handle it; but, these folks are making an assumption about how often that circumstance occurs that isn't at all in line with what does go on.

 

 

If folks want to farm win rate, or climb the Hall of Fame ladder, I have no problem with that; asking me to accept being just more cannon fodder simply because the game allows it? uhm, ....probably not gonna happen.

I'm trying to play and do well too, except I pretty much never get to face opposition equal to my own; it's either below me or far beyond anything I'll ever be capable of doing.

 

 

If there was another title out there that would work about as well (better even? heh), without being a full flight sim and/or paying an absurd amount of money just to ''game'', I'd be playing it.

In the meantime, like so many other players, this is about what there is to do; I have about (50) people so far in my contacts, and just as with 1.9 the majority of the time they can't flight up or are already in one.

Obviously I spend a lot of time having to play this game alone, when for yet another version it's pretty obvious how rare it is for the non-elite player to do well when not paired up with someone.

 

 

 

tl;dr -

If folks aren't playing under the same limitations everyone else is burdened with, then I think those deliberately working loopholes for their own benefit really aren't playing the same game at all and should be honest about it.

 

Thoughts?


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 03 March 2018 - 09:15 PM.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

5801234590.png

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Capture Points & You --- Graphic Settings Explored --- Grinding Tokens; Not so Daily Missions --- Ground Targets & Mission Types in 2.0 --- Equipment 2.0.5; Huh?


Cenotaph #2 Posted 03 March 2018 - 08:29 PM

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On a somewhat related note... have you noticed how alot of "Top 1% Ultra Elite 1.9" players, who have absolutely amazing stats in the archives, often have completely horrible stats in 2.x?

 

Even flying the same ultra-meta Me 410 that they have 300 hours of flight time in with 1.x , in 2.0 they can barely scrape by above the level of the "common clods".

 

These people got really good at abusing the game... running away from their opponents with their superior planes until they knew, for certain, that they were going to have a near 100% chance at a kill.

 

Don't get me wrong, they are very good at what they do... and it is the absolute right thing for a RL combat situation, a man who fights fair is a moron.

 

Buuut... this, as you so point out in the title... is a GAME. You are supposed to be having fun, flying by the seat of your pants in a giant fur-ball of death... killing and being killed.

 

The ones that can't adapt, yet still run their mouth like they should be taken seriously in the new environment... I have no time for them.

 

 

Know who I -do- respect the hell out of? HVAR... those guys are masters of the untouchable meta, yet they still seem to get down into 2.0 and get their hands dirty... and -still- come out on top 99% of the time.

 

All the while being awesome people...

 

The salt miners ought to take notes, perhaps ask for advice on how to adapt... or just fade quietly into the night.

 

 

Edit: Don't get me wrong... I see the same HVAR guys on the red team too many times in a short period I switch tiers... nobody likes having their face punched in over and over, no matter how nice the puncher is.


Edited by Cenotaph, 03 March 2018 - 08:41 PM.

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mnbv_fockewulfe #3 Posted 03 March 2018 - 10:20 PM

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We do horrible because we go into battle expecting certain things that just aren't viable anymore.

For example:

I hate the fact that I can die 4 times and still come out fist and win the battle. 

It just doesn't make any sense to me how I can be that bad at the game and still be better than the people that actually like 2.0.

We're used to survival before kills, as being the most efficient way to win the game. 

Now the opposite is true with respawns.  

It's also why BnZ was the predominant tactic.

You can't shoot down planes if your dead. 

We expect our contributions to actually make a difference in the battle. 

Battles are 100% determined by bots aka random.

Even the HVAR guys run into trouble when the bots are stacked against them. 


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Cenotaph #4 Posted 03 March 2018 - 11:13 PM

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Oddly enough, while that wasn't directed at you in any way, and was vaguely ment to call out a certain easy-peasy Mr. Fish...

 

I recall actually watching you in your 410, play a flawless high altitude game... 7 kills, 0 assists, 0 deaths, 0 sectors captured.

 

The entire match I thought, "Oh that poor guy... he can't get unstuck from the old meta and he's going to lose horribly despite playing awesome."

 

I left you alone above one of our sectors because you were literally no threat to us... I felt genuine pity at your situation.

 

 

I have to assume that many of the new 2.0 crowd are like myself... we are here -because- of the gritty, messy, get your teeth knocked out and then come back and return the favor kind of play.

 

And since there is no going back, and our support is the only thing that is going to keep the game alive, the vets needs to adapt... or die.

 

 

Losing a game you love is hard, I've been there... ever hear of Firefall? Founder/Commander here.. I rode that ship into a watery grave at the bottom of the ocean of tears from its loyal vets.

 

It was a testament to everything that -can- go wrong when a game with unlimited potential is mismanaged into the dirt by a select few.


Edited by Cenotaph, 03 March 2018 - 11:32 PM.

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mnbv_fockewulfe #5 Posted 04 March 2018 - 12:11 AM

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I actually hated the Me 410 back in 1.9.

Now it's about the only plane I feel at home in and I play it far more than I should (considering I want the F-86 someday).

I don't care about the sectors. I find them a needless ploy to force multiple planes into combat in one concentrated spot over and over and over and over again. 

I probably identified with/defended the wrong crowd you were criticizing in your post because you said 1.niners. :hiding:

There were statpadders in the game that could possibly still be around and continue to complain the game isn't easy enough for them to win. 

However I still don't understand why flying correctly should be punished by the game itself. 


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Cenotaph #6 Posted 04 March 2018 - 12:19 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 04 March 2018 - 12:11 AM, said:

However I still don't understand why flying correctly should be punished by the game itself. 

 

Because it is only fun to a very select few... many people do not like being forced into playing a perfectly flawless game in order to reap rewards from what we do with our leisure time.

 

I'm going to be so bold as to assume a bit about you... that players like you are after the aerial chess game, and thinking 3 moves ahead to ensure victory... satisfaction comes from forcing that single mistake in your opponents game plan.

 

That's great for a simulator... but has no market appeal to people who want to fly a little bit differently, perhaps take their plane places they "aren't supposed to go".

 

At the end of the day, you can't deny that "Flying right" wasn't a sustainable business... hell, there's no guarantee this is either.

 

 

 


Edited by Cenotaph, 04 March 2018 - 12:22 AM.

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mnbv_fockewulfe #7 Posted 04 March 2018 - 01:40 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 04 March 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

 

Because it is only fun to a very select few... many people do not like being forced into playing a perfectly flawless game in order to reap rewards from what we do with our leisure time.

 

I'm going to be so bold as to assume a bit about you... that players like you are after the aerial chess game, and thinking 3 moves ahead to ensure victory... satisfaction comes from forcing that single mistake in your opponents game plan.

 

That's great for a simulator... but has no market appeal to people who want to fly a little bit differently, perhaps take their plane places they "aren't supposed to go".

 

At the end of the day, you can't deny that "Flying right" wasn't a sustainable business... hell, there's no guarantee this is either.

 

 

 

 

So the select few should be punished?

The gameplay of the previous game wasn't the main issue. If anything it was the management of the devs that wasn't very popular.

The majority may now want what you seek, but they aren't the type that will stick around for 4 more long grueling years of broken promises. 

Now I don't say this of all of you, that wouldn't be just. 

However, one doesn't have to look very far to see evidence of this already. And it's been only a few months. 

 


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UnlimitedChromosomeWorks #8 Posted 04 March 2018 - 05:33 AM

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The vast majority of us HVAR guys are actually 2.0 players, so that's something to take into account. We developed our styles around the current meta.

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Zigfreid #9 Posted 04 March 2018 - 06:14 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 03 March 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

On a somewhat related note... have you noticed how alot of "Top 1% Ultra Elite 1.9" players, who have absolutely amazing stats in the archives, often have completely horrible stats in 2.x?

 

Even flying the same ultra-meta Me 410 that they have 300 hours of flight time in with 1.x , in 2.0 they can barely scrape by above the level of the "common clods".

 

These people got really good at abusing the game... running away from their opponents with their superior planes until they knew, for certain, that they were going to have a near 100% chance at a kill.

 

Don't get me wrong, they are very good at what they do... and it is the absolute right thing for a RL combat situation, a man who fights fair is a moron.

 

Buuut... this, as you so point out in the title... is a GAME. You are supposed to be having fun, flying by the seat of your pants in a giant fur-ball of death... killing and being killed.

 

The ones that can't adapt, yet still run their mouth like they should be taken seriously in the new environment... I have no time for them.

 

 

Know who I -do- respect the hell out of? HVAR... those guys are masters of the untouchable meta, yet they still seem to get down into 2.0 and get their hands dirty... and -still- come out on top 99% of the time.

 

All the while being awesome people...

 

The salt miners ought to take notes, perhaps ask for advice on how to adapt... or just fade quietly into the night.

 

 

Edit: Don't get me wrong... I see the same HVAR guys on the red team too many times in a short period I switch tiers... nobody likes having their face punched in over and over, no matter how nice the puncher is.

 

​I am a 1.9er I do not cry about things I adapt, and I like 2.0 and it is fun.

My win rate jumped from 62% in 1.9 to 68% in 2.0 which is a nice bump.

On the flip side my HOF went from 20 to 70 but I still enjoy playing!



Perco_lator #10 Posted 04 March 2018 - 06:23 AM

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View PostSOLxCAT32, on 04 March 2018 - 12:33 AM, said:

We developed our styles around the current meta.

 

2 man flights of top tier top meta planes, ya we already know.

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UnlimitedChromosomeWorks #11 Posted 04 March 2018 - 07:40 AM

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Yes, because BnZ is completely in the meta. 

 

Pack it up, boys, we've been found out. Detective Perco_lator had us on his radar the whole time


Edited by SOLxCAT32, 04 March 2018 - 07:46 AM.

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Cenotaph #12 Posted 04 March 2018 - 09:11 AM

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View PostPerco_lator, on 04 March 2018 - 06:23 AM, said:

 

2 man flights of top tier top meta planes, ya we already know.

 

That totally explains why an HVAR fellow was dragging my scrub behind into tier 10 games while I flew a tier 9 plane.

 

Top tier, top meta~ dragging along a single tier 9 with a far lower winrate = stat-padding~


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trikke #13 Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:30 PM

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i'm probably a good example of a guy that felt 1.x didn't meet my needs as a gamer, but 2.0 does

 

i didn't do well in 1.x and not doing especially well in 2.0, but respawn and respawn alone made the difference for me

 

i adore killing the guy that just killed me, to both the detriment of my team, and myself, really        even bots that killed me, ffs!

 

so...   it's just a game that i like, and i'll keep playing it!


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wylleEcoyote #14 Posted 02 March 2019 - 10:45 PM

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I will say this much about the respawn mechanic. 
After some human or bot showed you that you were doing something VERY WRONG; the game lets you get right back while the memory of the lesson is still fresh.
No waiting for the next match.

This encourages trying new and different things. Which is fine by me, I happen to Like having some variety in my life.

Playing this at first all one could do in tier 1-2 barnstormers was get a ticket to the  Turn'em and Burn'em Flying Circus Show.
And while that is a certain kind of fun... I did like learning that there are quite a few different ways to play (and win) the game's current 'Capture Zone Control' Meta

Spoiler

You know what else i liked about this 2.0 version?
The game did not "look" like unfinished garbage from the turn of the century that belonged back in its closed alpha testing.

Is it still using the BigWorld engine? Yes. Is it still buggy as hell? yes.
Is the tutorial still harder to find than a 14yo virgin in shanghai? yes. Is the UI still as tricky to figure out as the opposite sex? Yes.
After 3+ years of open beta testing are some players running out of planes to grind and stuff to do besides daily missions? Yes
(No worries, comrade! a new equipment system will keep you guessing and grinding for months)
And allow us the excuse to release 'alternate' versions of planes that are already in the tech tree. 

And none of it really matters to those of us still around.

THe game is  still an unrealistic arcade shooter with very realistic historical skins that is the 21st Century equivalent of kids chasing each other around while holding model airplane/ships/tanks and making engine and gun noises.  And therefore is particularly appealing to players old enough to remember doing that in real life.
And THAT is ultimately what WarGaming is all about. 

I think that the source of the bulk of the discontent we see here in this forum comes from a playerbase that is old enough to not like change for the sake of change.
Even if the result is better over all.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ...  And yet it doesnt stop me from speculation.
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USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58  USSR: Tu-1  UK: nOPE. Japan: not even once.
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Prenzlau #15 Posted 03 March 2019 - 01:15 AM

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    There are groups of players in this game that have very high win rates. FACT

 

    Some of these players have a system were they do not fight against each other which drastically cuts down the direct competition. FACT

 

    Some of these players play most of their battles in tier 8 and above in which they are flighted with another high win rate player, since there are less players at the higher tiers, it is easy to have win rates of 90% (or better) on a daily basis. FACT

 

    Some players have specialized planes with very high skill point pilots, and when you have two such players and planes working together it creates a huge advantage. FACT

 

    It is possible to "legally" scam the system and have a great advantage each and every battle. FACT

 

    When I brought these "facts" up to a WG representative in the WoWp discord, all I got was the run around and excuses. Basically the players are excellent anyways, so the facts don't matter.

 

    So I said, "If you represent a system that is being scammed, legally or not, then your are guilty because that's your system". 

 

    The reply I received is that I'm "mistaken".

 

    Cheers!

 

    Prenzlau

 

    

    


 

 

 

 


Perco_lator #16 Posted 03 March 2019 - 02:05 AM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 02 March 2019 - 08:15 PM, said:

    snip

      

 

Many of these things are also issues in the other WG titles as well as other games but the negative effects are further exacerbated in WOWP (a)  because of the low population & (b)  because there is

absolutely no clan wars or tournaments etc. as an outlet for competitive players so they are left only to decimate the casual population.


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Cenotaph #17 Posted 03 March 2019 - 02:10 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 03 March 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

It was a testament to everything that -can- go wrong when a game with unlimited potential is mismanaged into the dirt by a select few.

 

Quoted for still being relevant, also... holy thread necroing!
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Prenzlau #18 Posted 03 March 2019 - 02:23 AM

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View PostPerco_lator, on 02 March 2019 - 08:05 PM, said:

 

Many of these things are also issues in the other WG titles as well as other games but the negative effects are further exacerbated in WOWP (a)  because of the low population & (b)  because there is

absolutely no clan wars or tournaments etc. as an outlet for competitive players so they are left only to decimate the casual population.

 

    Dude, that is the nicest thing you have ever said. 

 

    I'm sorry for portraying you as a rock crab in past threads. 

 

    I feel like... this could be a special moment.

 

    Do you like "Engelbert Humperdinck" songs?

 

    Cheers!

 

    Prenzlau


 

 

 

 


legoboy0401 #19 Posted 03 March 2019 - 02:24 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 02 March 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

I will say this much about the respawn mechanic. 
After some human or bot showed you that you were doing something VERY WRONG; the game lets you get right back while the memory of the lesson is still fresh.
No waiting for the next match.

This encourages trying new and different things. Which is fine by me, I happen to Like having some variety in my life.

Playing this at first all one could do in tier 1-2 barnstormers was get a ticket to the  Turn'em and Burn'em Flying Circus Show.
And while that is a certain kind of fun... I did like learning that there are quite a few different ways to play (and win) the game's current 'Capture Zone Control' Meta

Spoiler

You know what else i liked about this 2.0 version?
The game did not "look" like unfinished garbage from the turn of the century that belonged back in its closed alpha testing.

Is it still using the BigWorld engine? Yes. Is it still buggy as hell? yes.
Is the tutorial still harder to find than a 14yo virgin in shanghai? yes. Is the UI still as tricky to figure out as the opposite sex? Yes.
After 3+ years of open beta testing are some players running out of planes to grind and stuff to do besides daily missions? Yes
(No worries, comrade! a new equipment system will keep you guessing and grinding for months)
And allow us the excuse to release 'alternate' versions of planes that are already in the tech tree. 

And none of it really matters to those of us still around.

THe game is  still an unrealistic arcade shooter with very realistic historical skins that is the 21st Century equivalent of kids chasing each other around while holding model airplane/ships/tanks and making engine and gun noises.  And therefore is particularly appealing to players old enough to remember doing that in real life.
And THAT is ultimately what WarGaming is all about. 

I think that the source of the bulk of the discontent we see here in this forum comes from a playerbase that is old enough to not like change for the sake of change.
Even if the result is better over all.

 

You know what 2.0 did for WoWP? Not to compare that other game to WOWP, but 1.0, as far as I've seen, (and I believe my father, who played 1.0 back before it was released, could back this up) could be likened to that other game's "realistic battle mode". Not in terms of physics, but in terms of it being a playground for the ULTRA-EXCELLENT few, and not a place for the more casual masses/average player.

 

2.0 really opened up the game to more casual/average players. 2.0 was the great equalizer, that made the game feel accessible to those who don't want to or can't flight up, and/or those who just want to have fun and not have to stat pad to get any respect at all.

 

Just my 2 cents.


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Bubba_Zanetti #20 Posted 03 March 2019 - 02:56 AM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 02 March 2019 - 09:23 PM, said:

 

    Do you like "Engelbert Humperdinck" songs?

 

 

On an 8-track cassette in my Mom’s early 70’s green Renault...only way to listen to the great Engelbert as a child...:great:


 

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