Jump to content


Adding t11-t20

t11 cold-war jets

  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

FIight #1 Posted 24 February 2018 - 04:33 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4145 battles
  • 707
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    09-11-2015

Warning: the following content is unsuitable for those under 12 years old

 

At tier 11, the jets are faster, more maneuverable, featuring possible

missile armament. The proposed jets to be added are:

 

US: North American F-100 super sabre 

       Grumman F-11 Tiger

       Convair F-102 Delta Dagger

       A-4 Skyhawk

      Vought F-8 Crusader

 

UK: Hawker Siddeley P1127(Sea Harrier prototype)

       De Havilland Sea Vixen

 

USSR: Mig-19

            Sukhoi Su-7

 

France: Super Mystere

             Sud Aviation Vautour

 

Sweden: Saab-32 Lansen

             

While most of them can easily reach supersonic, they can't do it without boost, 

and while they are able to carry the first generation A2A missiles, the missiles

are fairly unreliable and are unable to shoot down highly-maneuverable targets.

Gun fighting is still their major strategy and the missiles armament can make them

easier to counter bombers and bulky GAAs. The first generation missiles they can

carry include Firestreak, AIM-9B and AA-2(soviet version of AIM-9), making them 

fearsome counterparts of t10 jets. Missiles refill like rockets and bombs.

 

At tier 12, the jets are faster and most of them can reach Mach 2.0 with the help of afterburner.

Still, most of them struggle to break sonic barrier without afterburner. The proposed additions are:

 

US: Lockheed F-104 Starfighter

       Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III

       Convair F-106 Delta Dart

       F-105 Thunderchief

 

UK:  English Electric Lightning

        BAE Sea Harrier

 

USSR: Mig-21

            Sukhoi Su-15

 

France: Mirage IIIC

             Super Etendard

 

Sweden:

            Saab-35 Draken

 

The missile tactics are much more effective compared to their t11 predecessors. 

From t10 planes are allowed to carry flare/chaff  to evade missiles. 

The list is largely incomplete, feel free to add some!


Edited by FIight, 24 February 2018 - 07:06 PM.


pyantoryng #2 Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:38 PM

    Colonel

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1670 battles
  • 8,241
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
I smell tac nuke...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 24 February 2018 - 01:22 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 2755 battles
  • 1,848
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012
Germany and Japan would have terrible tech trees past 11

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


pyantoryng #4 Posted 24 February 2018 - 03:18 PM

    Colonel

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1670 battles
  • 8,241
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 24 February 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

Germany and Japan would have terrible tech trees past 11

 

Tier 20 J7W13 :trollface:

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

FIight #5 Posted 24 February 2018 - 07:11 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4145 battles
  • 707
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    09-11-2015

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 24 February 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

Germany and Japan would have terrible tech trees past 11

 

https://en.wikipedia...ckwell-MBB_X-31

This plane is highly advanced, and probably the most maneuverable...

Japan could use license build F-15 and F-16, and top tiering at the experimental Shinshin...



mnbv_fockewulfe #6 Posted 24 February 2018 - 07:26 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 247 battles
  • 3,030
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

I wish.

Not gonna happen tho.


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


Lt_Haruhi_Suzumiya #7 Posted 24 February 2018 - 07:44 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 927 battles
  • 158
  • Member since:
    01-30-2013

Oh.. Okaaay..

While Tier 10 F-86 Saber only have 6 of 12.7mm M3 machine gun
Tier 11 F-100 uses 20mm M39 machine-cannon from XF5U pancake, with some Missiles.
and Tier 12 F-104 starfighter uses 20mm M61A1 which already can seem from Tier 9 F-94D. 

I think I will be happy if I can see AIM-9 and AIM-7 in this game, but really,  I am worried bout Balance.  which will make this idea 'not happens'

 

Nearly almost all of Tier 10's will no match to Tier 11,  

Specially, Outdated Pre-1946 paper-plan things that mainly used on Japanese and German branch will never gonna have chance to these Tier 11.

 

Another J7W thing which got burble-canopy and new engine?

Twin-engine mounted licensed version of  version of He-162? (sigh)

Feeble Japanese branch will not gonna make it. 

As Tier 11. J7W4(working title), or F-86D Kyokko are no matches to these F-100 or MiG-19.

 

F-86D "Sabre dog" is just one another type of [edited]plane which only have 2.75'' FFAR(x24) as armament.  and F-94D and German BV branch proved that Anti-Air rockets are nerfed too much on 2.0 and became worthless.  (Even F-94D carries 24x FFAR.  With single 20mm M61A1 or 4 of 20mm Mk.12 as gun too.)
and J7W4..  Come on,  Is you guys really thinks that outdated J7W thing which carries outdated 30mm Autocannon can dealt with superior MiG-19?  

 

Even Na[censored]'s Greatest secret weapons can't save their days from MiG-19 or F-8/F-100.

 

Spec gap between Tier 10<->Tier 11 are way too much wider than Tier 9<->Tier 10 does.

 

1. Tier 11 should be earlier plane than that.  Something like MiG-17 or F-86F.

 

2. If F-100 really goes for US T11,  We need to fill the gap between

IJAAF&IJN FAA/JASDF : J7W3 thing/F-86D "Kyokko"/ and F-104J "Eiko"

 

Luftwaffe : Thanks to Eastern Germany's NPA. which will provide MiG-19 as Tier 11 and make Western Luftwaffe's F-104F Starfighter as Tier 12


Edited by Lt_Haruhi_Suzumiya, 24 February 2018 - 07:51 PM.

I guess, This pilot is worst teammate when you are on match, *Facepalm

 

Former 2.0 stat.
7155 matches,  53.12% win rate, Hall of fame 772.

Member Title : Senior Master Sergeant


FreeFOXMIKE #8 Posted 24 February 2018 - 11:56 PM

    G.A.T.P. (Global Alpha Test Pilot)

  • Member
  • 2832 battles
  • 6,706
  • [332ND] 332ND
  • Member since:
    10-25-2011

BREATHTAKING AIR BATTLES WITH PLANES OF THE GOLDEN ERA

 

the  game as stated covers 1920 - 1950 I think. 

players be surprised all thats from the 50s

 

https://www.military...t-1950-1959.asp


Edited by FreeFOXMIKE, 25 February 2018 - 12:04 AM.

           332 Virtual  Fighter  Group

 


FIight #9 Posted 25 February 2018 - 01:32 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4145 battles
  • 707
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    09-11-2015

View PostLt_Haruhi_Suzumiya, on 24 February 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

Oh.. Okaaay..

While Tier 10 F-86 Saber only have 6 of 12.7mm M3 machine gun
Tier 11 F-100 uses 20mm M39 machine-cannon from XF5U pancake, with some Missiles.
and Tier 12 F-104 starfighter uses 20mm M61A1 which already can seem from Tier 9 F-94D. 

I think I will be happy if I can see AIM-9 and AIM-7 in this game, but really,  I am worried bout Balance.  which will make this idea 'not happens'

 

Nearly almost all of Tier 10's will no match to Tier 11,  

Specially, Outdated Pre-1946 paper-plan things that mainly used on Japanese and German branch will never gonna have chance to these Tier 11.

 

Another J7W thing which got burble-canopy and new engine?

Twin-engine mounted licensed version of  version of He-162? (sigh)

Feeble Japanese branch will not gonna make it. 

As Tier 11. J7W4(working title), or F-86D Kyokko are no matches to these F-100 or MiG-19.

 

F-86D "Sabre dog" is just one another type of [edited]plane which only have 2.75'' FFAR(x24) as armament.  and F-94D and German BV branch proved that Anti-Air rockets are nerfed too much on 2.0 and became worthless.  (Even F-94D carries 24x FFAR.  With single 20mm M61A1 or 4 of 20mm Mk.12 as gun too.)
and J7W4..  Come on,  Is you guys really thinks that outdated J7W thing which carries outdated 30mm Autocannon can dealt with superior MiG-19?  

 

Even Na[censored]'s Greatest secret weapons can't save their days from MiG-19 or F-8/F-100.

 

Spec gap between Tier 10<->Tier 11 are way too much wider than Tier 9<->Tier 10 does.

 

1. Tier 11 should be earlier plane than that.  Something like MiG-17 or F-86F.

 

2. If F-100 really goes for US T11,  We need to fill the gap between

IJAAF&IJN FAA/JASDF : J7W3 thing/F-86D "Kyokko"/ and F-104J "Eiko"

 

Luftwaffe : Thanks to Eastern Germany's NPA. which will provide MiG-19 as Tier 11 and make Western Luftwaffe's F-104F Starfighter as Tier 12

 

The idea is still in its infantile stage, t10-11 gap can be huge due to the rapid development of planes from 1950-1960.

What I would suggest is to give every player a tier 10.5 plane, such as F-86 with quad cannons, or Mig-17 that acts as

a tier '1' plane. The battle starting from tier 10.5 will not see planes at tier 10. The tier 10.5-20 planes define a brand new

air combat mode, and the major tech trees are from nations that are cold war participants, like USSR, US, EU, China, Japan,

or even Israel and Egypt.



Lt_Haruhi_Suzumiya #10 Posted 25 February 2018 - 09:43 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 927 battles
  • 158
  • Member since:
    01-30-2013

View PostFIight, on 24 February 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

The idea is still in its infantile stage, t10-11 gap can be huge due to the rapid development of planes from 1950-1960.

What I would suggest is to give every player a tier 10.5 plane, such as F-86 with quad cannons, or Mig-17 that acts as

a tier '1' plane. The battle starting from tier 10.5 will not see planes at tier 10. The tier 10.5-20 planes define a brand new

air combat mode, and the major tech trees are from nations that are cold war participants, like USSR, US, EU, China, Japan,

or even Israel and Egypt.

 

If they can make game like that..

I think They will not add it as another gamemode for World of Warplanes.

Making New game as World of Warplanes 2 or World of Jetplanes, World of BVRs  or Whatever.
And Make it as opponent for Jet games.  For Example,  Ace Combats or  HAWX.. etc.

 

These will makes player to 'cannot use free XP from WOT or WOWP' which will save their contents as long as they can.

But well,  Separating game between T1-T10 and T11-T20 are good idea I guess.

These Me P whatevers or J7Ws even can't use flare..


I guess, This pilot is worst teammate when you are on match, *Facepalm

 

Former 2.0 stat.
7155 matches,  53.12% win rate, Hall of fame 772.

Member Title : Senior Master Sergeant


IronWolfV #11 Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:06 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 278 battles
  • 149
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
11+ with these mechanics. Won't work. Right how they are about equal to Hero's over the Pacific. 11+ would have to shift to something like Ace Combat or H.A.W.K.X

This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. You sneak up behind your enemy and you bash him over the skull. I know this, so does Scar. That's why I'm gonna kill him.

-Starbuck, Battlestar Galactica


comtedumas #12 Posted 03 March 2018 - 03:44 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 5087 battles
  • 953
  • [FK] FK
  • Member since:
    04-11-2016

View PostFIight, on 23 February 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

Warning: the following content is unsuitable for those under 12 years old

 

At tier 11, the jets are faster, more maneuverable, featuring possible

missile armament. The proposed jets to be added are:

 

US: North American F-100 super sabre 

       Grumman F-11 Tiger

       Convair F-102 Delta Dagger

       A-4 Skyhawk

      Vought F-8 Crusader

 

UK: Hawker Siddeley P1127(Sea Harrier prototype)

       De Havilland Sea Vixen

 

USSR: Mig-19

            Sukhoi Su-7

 

France: Super Mystere

             Sud Aviation Vautour

 

Sweden: Saab-32 Lansen

             

While most of them can easily reach supersonic, they can't do it without boost, 

and while they are able to carry the first generation A2A missiles, the missiles

are fairly unreliable and are unable to shoot down highly-maneuverable targets.

Gun fighting is still their major strategy and the missiles armament can make them

easier to counter bombers and bulky GAAs. The first generation missiles they can

carry include Firestreak, AIM-9B and AA-2(soviet version of AIM-9), making them 

fearsome counterparts of t10 jets. Missiles refill like rockets and bombs.

 

At tier 12, the jets are faster and most of them can reach Mach 2.0 with the help of afterburner.

Still, most of them struggle to break sonic barrier without afterburner. The proposed additions are:

 

US: Lockheed F-104 Starfighter

       Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III

       Convair F-106 Delta Dart

       F-105 Thunderchief

 

UK:  English Electric Lightning

        BAE Sea Harrier

 

USSR: Mig-21

            Sukhoi Su-15

 

France: Mirage IIIC

             Super Etendard

 

Sweden:

            Saab-35 Draken

 

The missile tactics are much more effective compared to their t11 predecessors. 

From t10 planes are allowed to carry flare/chaff  to evade missiles. 

The list is largely incomplete, feel free to add some!

 

most planes are 50-100 mph too slow now.  I wonder if it's for playability.  

jack_wdw #13 Posted 07 March 2018 - 08:10 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 962 battles
  • 372
  • Member since:
    09-28-2012
Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III has a top speed of Mach 2.5 and could carry the same AA rockets as the F-4.
Impossible to implement.
You could maybe add an extra Tier (11) but after that it would stop.
Most of the current german and japanese higher tier planes already never existed, you can't go on forever in those lines anymore.
But one tier extra would be possible.

If you are going to add Planes with guided AA and AG missiles, you'll need a new interface.
Implementing these aircraft in the current tier structure will be nearly impossible, because you can't let these fighters blend with previous tier aircraft.
Because of their speed, their Cannon, their guided rockets they would be way to overpowered to mingle with an earlier tier.
If you would implement such a tier, all battles wit planes from that tier can only be fought against other planes of that tier.
Noone wants to be lower tier cannon fodder in those battles.

Edited by jack_wdw, 07 March 2018 - 01:23 PM.


FIight #14 Posted 07 March 2018 - 08:56 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4145 battles
  • 707
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    09-11-2015

View Postjack_wdw, on 07 March 2018 - 03:10 AM, said:

Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III has a top speed of Mach 2.5 and could carry the same AA rockets as the F-4.
Impossible to implement.
You could maybe add an extra Tier (11) but after that it would stop.
Most of the current german and japanese higher tier planes already never existed, you can't go on in those lines anymore.

 

You are wrong german had UFOs on the lunar base and Japanese could have spaceship Yamato

Landsraad #15 Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:50 AM

    Senior Airman

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 260 battles
  • 18
  • [5PANZ] 5PANZ
  • Member since:
    10-25-2011

View PostFIight, on 07 March 2018 - 03:56 AM, said:

 

You are wrong german had UFOs on the lunar base and Japanese could have spaceship Yamato

 

Sorry, but that's a no-go on the Yamato. Warships already called dibs.

jack_wdw #16 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:31 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 962 battles
  • 372
  • Member since:
    09-28-2012
But i do think there might be room for one extra tier for planes as the Mig-17, F-86D , xF10F, F-89

FIight #17 Posted 15 April 2018 - 01:04 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4145 battles
  • 707
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    09-11-2015

View Postjack_wdw, on 07 March 2018 - 07:31 AM, said:

But i do think there might be room for one extra tier for planes as the Mig-17, F-86D , xF10F, F-89

 

They could, make those jets only encounter t-10 planes.

Edited by FIight, 15 April 2018 - 01:04 PM.


NovaTempest #18 Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:23 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 2083 battles
  • 209
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

View PostFIight, on 24 February 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

Warning: the following content is unsuitable for those under 12 years old

 

At tier 11, the jets are faster, more maneuverable, featuring possible

missile armament. The proposed jets to be added are:

 

US: North American F-100 super sabre 

       Grumman F-11 Tiger

       Convair F-102 Delta Dagger

       A-4 Skyhawk

      Vought F-8 Crusader

 

UK: Hawker Siddeley P1127(Sea Harrier prototype)

       De Havilland Sea Vixen

 

USSR: Mig-19

            Sukhoi Su-7

 

France: Super Mystere

             Sud Aviation Vautour

 

Sweden: Saab-32 Lansen

             

While most of them can easily reach supersonic, they can't do it without boost, 

and while they are able to carry the first generation A2A missiles, the missiles

are fairly unreliable and are unable to shoot down highly-maneuverable targets.

Gun fighting is still their major strategy and the missiles armament can make them

easier to counter bombers and bulky GAAs. The first generation missiles they can

carry include Firestreak, AIM-9B and AA-2(soviet version of AIM-9), making them 

fearsome counterparts of t10 jets. Missiles refill like rockets and bombs.

 

At tier 12, the jets are faster and most of them can reach Mach 2.0 with the help of afterburner.

Still, most of them struggle to break sonic barrier without afterburner. The proposed additions are:

 

US: Lockheed F-104 Starfighter

       Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III

       Convair F-106 Delta Dart

       F-105 Thunderchief

 

UK:  English Electric Lightning

        BAE Sea Harrier

 

USSR: Mig-21

            Sukhoi Su-15

 

France: Mirage IIIC

             Super Etendard

 

Sweden:

            Saab-35 Draken

 

The missile tactics are much more effective compared to their t11 predecessors. 

From t10 planes are allowed to carry flare/chaff  to evade missiles. 

The list is largely incomplete, feel free to add some!

 

Tier 20 would likely crank all the way to the 1980s, thats a no-go, considering the game goes from 1920's - mid 1950's.

 

However, just for sh*ts and giggles, here's what a 15 tier line might look like, using the MiG Line as an example.


Tier X: MiG-15bis

|

|

V

Tier XI: MiG-17 "Fresco"

|

|

V

Tier XII: I-340 (MiG-19 Prototype)

|

|

V

Tier XIII : MiG-19 "Farmer"

|

|

V

Tier XIV: SM-12 (Prototype of the MiG-21)

|

|

V

Tier XV: MiG-21 "Fishbed"


 

On top of this, early guided missiles were actually relatively unreliable, and very prone to missing their targets altogether. So early guided missiles such as the AIM-9B, the K-5, and the K-5M were primarily used against bomber targets, and had relatively short effective ranges. While they still are homing missiles, the fact that their homing systems were so rudimentary makes them not totally out of the question.

 

And before you ask, the Germans were already onto this sort of tech back in the 40s, just look at the X-4 Missile, and were even in the middle of developing the grandaddy of Surface to Air missiles, the "Rheintochter".

 

So overall, Doable? Possibly.

Will it be done? Probably not.


Edited by NovaTempest, 16 April 2018 - 05:25 PM.


Trophy_Wench #19 Posted 17 April 2018 - 06:57 PM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1347 battles
  • 91
  • [TWE] TWE
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostNovaTempest, on 16 April 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

 

Tier 20 would likely crank all the way to the 1980s, thats a no-go, considering the game goes from 1920's - mid 1950's.

 

However, just for sh*ts and giggles, here's what a 15 tier line might look like, using the MiG Line as an example.


Tier X: MiG-15bis

|

|

V

Tier XI: MiG-17 "Fresco"

|

|

V

Tier XII: I-340 (MiG-19 Prototype)

|

|

V

Tier XIII : MiG-19 "Farmer"

|

|

V

Tier XIV: SM-12 (Prototype of the MiG-21)

|

|

V

Tier XV: MiG-21 "Fishbed"


 

On top of this, early guided missiles were actually relatively unreliable, and very prone to missing their targets altogether. So early guided missiles such as the AIM-9B, the K-5, and the K-5M were primarily used against bomber targets, and had relatively short effective ranges. While they still are homing missiles, the fact that their homing systems were so rudimentary makes them not totally out of the question.

 

And before you ask, the Germans were already onto this sort of tech back in the 40s, just look at the X-4 Missile, and were even in the middle of developing the grandaddy of Surface to Air missiles, the "Rheintochter".

 

So overall, Doable? Possibly.

Will it be done? Probably not.

 

I like this! I think it would be fun to have some more advanced jets come into the game and bringing it to the end of the decade would still allow for some iconic aircraft while still retaining core gameplay mechanics. One minor change I would make would be to make the tier XIV either the Ye-2A/MiG-23 proto or the Ye-4/5/MiG-21 LRIP version. The XV would then be the 'F' or 'F-13' depending on how effective missiles end up being. I think I'm going to play around with some different lines myself and see how such extended lines would take shape!

SonicPariah #20 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:04 PM

    Community Manager

  • Administrator
  • 427 battles
  • 879
  • [WGATX] WGATX
  • Member since:
    05-22-2016

Definitely something to think about. Even if (as stated elsewhere) it is a little outside of our timeline for playable planes.

 

Also, no nukes. NO NUKES!!! Jets might be an interesting addition, but would also change the timeline a bit overall.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users