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The Case for Nerfing and/or Removing The Beaufighter.


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Poll: Bristol Beaufighter: Too good? (37 members have cast votes)

Does the Beaufighter have too many strengths?

  1. yes (4 votes [10.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.81%

  2. no (32 votes [86.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 86.49%

  3. I don't know (1 vote [2.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.70%

Was the Beaufighter okay pre-2.0 or was it always this OP and game-breaking?

  1. it was okay pre-2.0 (15 votes [40.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.54%

  2. it was always this way, just WG never rectified the situation. (4 votes [10.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.81%

  3. I don't know (18 votes [48.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.65%

Nerf or remove the Beaufighter: what say you?

  1. nerf the Beaufighter (2 votes [5.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.71%

  2. remove the Beaufighter, and replace it with the more balanced Bristol Beaufort (1 vote [2.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.86%

  3. I don't know (32 votes [91.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 91.43%

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Kiwiav8r #41 Posted 16 February 2018 - 12:59 AM

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My 2c.  The Beaufighter like every other aircraft in the game has weaknesses that good players may exploit to gain an advantage.  It is definitely not OP, on the other hand I dispute the claim that the P-38F is a hard counter for the Beaufighter but that's an entirely different thread.

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Zigfreid #42 Posted 16 February 2018 - 01:38 AM

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Beaufighter is the weakest of the four heavys, and the last one I would pick to fight.

Any true boom and zoom heavy pilot will eat up a Beaufighter every match with ease.

Have you ever killed a 110-E at 11k feet or a 38-F at 13k feet with a Beaufighter?

You would stall out at 8k or 9k ft and be destroyed in one pass with ease, hanging in air.

Beaufighter is a low slow fat sitting duck for any other heavy, an XP punching bag



legoboy0401 #43 Posted 16 February 2018 - 01:42 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 15 February 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

I thought the Beau was pretty OP too... when I had less than 300 games.

 

Once I got a basic idea of what I was doing however, that changed drastically... now, the only thing I fear about a Beaufighter is it's first pass. (Especially if I haven't noticed him)

 

As soon as you're comfortable dodging the first run and gettin on their tails, they suddenly aren't that scary anymore... I mean, sure.... nasty tailgun, but my Cane II doesn't care. (Nor do most of my planes)

 

 

Lego, you need to seriously give it a rest... the sky isn't falling, and the Beaufighter isn't the end of the world.

 

Unless, of course, you don't want to get better, or adjust your gameplay, and just want to cry and stomp your feet like a child... nothin can be done to fix that issue. (Atleast, not by us here on the forums)

 

Yeah, my bad, really the only thing that could possibly considered OP about the Beaufighter is it's armament, but then again, most of it is short-ranged anyway.

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 15 February 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

Frankly, having more than one type of HF on the minimap shouldn't be an issue - if you see ANY plane pointing in your direction, check six immediately. If he's on top of you, snap roll over into a split S immediately, using your rudder to speed yourself through the turn. You'll still take a hit if he's coming straight at you, but reversing your direction will mess up his attack pattern and force an overshoot. Once that happens, you have the choice of turning back onto his tail or disengaging while he's setting up for another pass.

 

Its really at this point where the Beaufighter suffers vs. other heavies - it cannot zoom out fast enough to prevent you from turning onto his tail and wrecking him. If you're at anything above treetop altitude, just drop in about 30 degrees below his elevator and his turret cannot get you. My personal tactic in cases like that used to be to hammer the boost and pull the plane straight up to get my turret on-target since I cannot run. If your target does that, he's dead as long as you don't try to stick with him - drop off and circle below: if he continues the climb, he'll run out of boost and be out of the fight for a while, until his boost recovers - you can go on your own merry way and do other more important things. If he loops over, his turret will stop firing and you can nail him at the apex of the loop. Alternately, if he noses over and runs for the ground, don't pursue in a light fighter - the turret will wreck you. Heavies will just chase him down and kill him, turret or no. If you're in a light, just leave him be and hunt other easier targets - if he tries to come back, just dodge again and hopefully force him to run the gauntlet of bots to get to you. 

 

Heavies fighting Beaus is a simple matter of spotting him coming and just boost climbing out of there. He can't follow and he'd be an idiot to try.

 

Best way to deal with a Beau is the same as every other airplane - see him and kill him first. The challenge will usually be when other players are circling the Beaufighter to pick up anything he fails to kill in the first pass. They will intercept you and pull you apart if you try to engage the Beaufighter. 

 

The only airplane class that is close to helpless against a Beaufighter are the Ground Attackers who are the Beaufighter's natural prey. If a Beau spots your IL2 or Stuka, you're going to hurt. You can still bob and weave and force an overshoot, but overall, the only thing preventing him from tearing you apart will be nearby bots or players. Or a bombkill. That works too.

 

And if you're wondering why we think this thing is balanced, that's because we've progressed beyond tier 5 and seen far worse things. Dark things. Monsters lurking in the clouds. The shadow of the winged death. The poor Beaufighter is naught but a springtime warbler in the face of such horror. Such things that can only be killed by looking death in the eye as He bears down upon ye! Aye. Stare death in the eye and throw the dice on the balance of terror that you might live to fight on, for a little while at least.

 

Sniper TA-152 and the Pancake of Doom, not to mention the XP-58 Ghost Rider.(get it, because Ghost Rider's weapon is a flaming chain, and there is the word chain in the XP-58's actual name?)

Random Thoughts Of The Day:

 

World of Warplanes? More like World of Bots-that-are-designed-to-fail-so-you-lose-as-often-as-you-win.

Heavy Fighters? More like Obsolete Flying Bricks.

Attack Aircraft? More like Bomber-wannabes.


MARS_REVENANT #44 Posted 16 February 2018 - 01:48 AM

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This reminds me of someone... Takes no skill to win in a Beau in 2.0.

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legoboy0401 #45 Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:05 AM

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View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 15 February 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

This reminds me of someone... Takes no skill to win in a Beau in 2.0.

 

Hardly. a player bot controlled Beaufighter is most certainly not difficult prey. It takes a good player with an understanding of the plane's strengths and weaknesses, but when there is one, it dominates.

Random Thoughts Of The Day:

 

World of Warplanes? More like World of Bots-that-are-designed-to-fail-so-you-lose-as-often-as-you-win.

Heavy Fighters? More like Obsolete Flying Bricks.

Attack Aircraft? More like Bomber-wannabes.


Perco_lator #46 Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:38 AM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 15 February 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

 

Hardly. a player bot controlled Beaufighter is most certainly not difficult prey. It takes a good player with an understanding of the plane's strengths and weaknesses, but when there is one, it dominates.

 

By making this statement here you cannot say the Beaufighter is OP. What would constitute as an OP plane would be one that the below to average player performs statistically better in than all other planes. You haven't shown any proof of this & by your own admission it takes a good pilot to dominate a match.

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Pogo68 #47 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:24 AM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 14 February 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

 

Yeah, no, SpiritFox, my poll is designed to weed out those who don't think the Beaufighter needs changes. It originally did have an option to say the Beaufighter didn't need changes, although it was worded as such to make people who voted that way look bad. Unfortunately, that plan backfired when someone chose that option anyway. This, of course, was unacceptable(the reason I didn't want people to be able to vote that way is because I know that many arrogant, lazy sealclubbers adore the Beaufighter and want it to remain OP, thus they would try to claim it doesn't need a nerf), so I changed that answer to I don't know, so that such sealclubbers couldn't have a say in favor of their heavily biased position.

 

I ALSO see you conveniently left out my point about the Beaufighter's ridiculous firepower.

 

So the intent of the poll is to return a preordained result that says that

A the Beaufighter should be nerfed or

B the Beaufighter should be removed.

 

By the way, the Beaufighter has problems when up against a human flown P-38 or P-39 or Spitfire Mk I, or Hurricane Mk I, or A6M2-21 or Yak, or ......

Notice a pattern?

 

As mentioned by a previous poster, the Beaufighter is a Tier 5 heavy, by this time you should have learned how to deal with what is essentially a high performance Ground Attack Aircraft.

And if you're insisting on attacking this plane head on hoping to kill it before it's forward guns kill you, then you need to rethink what you're doing son.

 

The plane, has a giant area that the guns can't cover, use it.


Edited by Pogo68, 16 February 2018 - 07:20 AM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Mercsn #48 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:28 PM

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View PostPerco_lator, on 15 February 2018 - 10:38 PM, said:

 

By making this statement here you cannot say the Beaufighter is OP. What would constitute as an OP plane would be one that the below to average player performs statistically better in than all other planes. You haven't shown any proof of this & by your own admission it takes a good pilot to dominate a match.

 

Damn you Lego for putting me in a position where I have to agree with THIS GUY!

 

The plane isn't op, the combination of player, perks and equipment was op. And, that's perfectly fine because he put in the time to train that pilot and earned the credits to buy the equipment and put in the time to learn how to use all that effectively.

 

As to your question about what to do in a match with more than 1 HF:  it's just as someone else said, do like real pilots had to and keep your eyes moving around (radar, sky around you, target in front of you) even when your engaging a target.

 

How easy is it to shoot up someone who's tunnel visioned on the target in front of him?  Pretty easy, in any aircraft.  I'm way more scared of a good pilot in a zero, spit, or tornado than a Beau.  2 of those are difficult to shake if you messed up and were too low or too slow. The latter won't even give you time to ponder what you did wrong as its speed + firepower combo quickly shred ya.

 

So, what I suggest is to use both alt ui (left alt key, set it to "push" instead of "push and hold").  Usually, I leave the view set to normal. This way, radar will show arrows pointing at you to give indication something is sbout to attack. When I notice a red arrow pointed at me, I'll tap LAlt to see what class it is. This will dictate my response.  This can be tricky to do when you're already engaged, but if you set that as your one step to work on, you'll improve. Put a post it on your monitor:  "Look at radar!!".

 

Forget about the Beau, doing this will help you versus EVERYTHING.

 

If it is an HF, my next suggestion would be to swing your camera that direction to get a visual  (you already pressed LAlt to give you extra info).  As you swing your camera aroind, you'll get a quick look at what type of HF that is.

 

You may lose some shooting opportunity on whatever you're chasing, but since the plane chases the camera, your essentially still chasing your target, even though you're not looking at it, if he's still in a typical banked turn-fight type of turn.

 

If you notice that HF is not the Beau human you're worried aout, but it's a bot Bf110 and you're not really concerned about it, just keep swinging your camera around til you're looking at your target again. Finish shooting it up, if you feel you have time, then deal with evading the incoming bot.

 

If it is the Beau you're concerned about, drop your chase in whatever target you had, press f7 and begin defensive play since you are now engaged 2v1. You will need to evade whatever you were chasing as well as evade the icoming Beau.  You're goal now is too live long enough to let the Beau pass, re-acquire you previous target and crit or kill it before the Beau makes his next pass.  You've been looking at the radar, so you know if you have teammates nearby. You might try to fly towards them while pressing f7. If it's a bot fighter you were dealing with, it may go after one of your bots, particularly if you're in a blue zone with defense bots, freeing you up to focus on the Beau.

 

To avoid the first shots, turn into him, slightly left  and down and boost (so he has to steer right to line up a shot and you're giving him less time by closing the gap quicker), then come back right so he has to steer left (hopefully he's slightly rolled the wrong way also). If he's on top of you, you might  just continue your turn to end up on his tail.  If he's still afew hundred meters out, you may need a 3rd juke. With timing and practice 2 is enough to close and throw off his aim and get behind him.

 

Be careful not to turn level in front of him or not pull your initial juke far enough, he'll be trying to ram you as he goes by if he can't shoot you.

 

I just typed a lot.  Aaand, that all happens in a few seconds in game.

 

The trick to getting better at it is to work on ONE THING AT A TIME.  If you try to do everything, you'll over think it, mess it all up, and just remain frustrated.

 

Work on watching the radar as you fight. Once that's normal habit, work on switching between LAlt and normal ui. Got that down.  Then remember to swing the cam around to make habit visual scans. Got that down.  Then practice throwing in f7 keypress in case a teammate or bot is listening and nearby.

 

Any time is a good time to practice juking heavies.  Seeing an HF coming at me and turning into him and juking his attack to get on his tail and gun him down is probably my favorite thing in the game.  He thinks you're not looking, an easy kill. Next thing he knows, you're behind him and he can't shake you.  Queue respawn screen.

 

If you think this all sounds like too much, look at my spit vs zero vid. The whole time I'm evading the zero, I'm spamming the f7 key, watching my consumable cooldown, eyeing the radar to see if his or my teammates are going to show up 1st, and even watching my speed as he's got a lower stall then me and I was close to stalling trying to evade vertical (and I point out a couple things I lost track of in the fight).

 

Also, another thing I do is zoom the radar out when I'm not engaged and zoom it in to the 1.5km-ish range when I know I'm entering a fight.  This makes the radar more tactically useful and still gives enough evasion notice if you've got the habit of looking at radar while doing other things. Fiddling with the radar zoom is another step to add in the "one thing at a time" improvement program. You can fit it in where you like.  If you don't want to fiddle with it, leave it close in while you work on step 1, constantly glance at the radar.  You can always use the map key for a quick peek at the strategic situation, when you're area is clear.

 

I'm sure the really good players do all this naturally and don't even realize it.  I learned to work on situational awareness back in the day flying wingman to a better shot. I would constantly update him on the battle around us, and keep his tail clear, so he could be free to tunnel vision in on whatever he was gunning for.   It took practice and effort to keep good situational awareness (SA), but the brain muscle memory for it is still there. Unfortunately, WG removed the minimap and rearview mirror, and some HUD info that made keeping SA easier.  So, in this version I still get surprised.

 

Also, you won't see planes in clouds, sun, or below and behind you. As far as I can determine, the "radar" doesn't see them either. Not having the minimap onscreen makes it harder to notice things disappear  (to make a mental note that it may be in cloud, sun, predator camo, etc).

 

Energy and SA are the keys to winning the fight.  It's funny but in a lot of "what do I do..." threads someone will answer, "see and kill the other guy 1st". Then someone says, "oh, big help, sarcasm". But....it's totally true.

 

Practice seeing them 1st. Focus on one step at a time.  Until you get to the "get behind 'em and learn 'em" step.

 

Best of luck.

 

 


Edited by Mercsn, 16 February 2018 - 05:45 PM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

LMG #49 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:45 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 16 February 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

 

Damn you Lego for putting me in a position where I have to agree with THIS GUY! 

 

The plane isn't op, the combination of player, perks and equipment was op. And, that's perfectly fine because he put in the time to train that pilot and earned the credits to buy the equipment and put in the time to learn how to use all that effectively.

 

As to your question about what to do in a match with more than 1 HF:  it's just as someone else said, do like real pilots had to and keep your eyes moving around (radar, sky around you, target in front of you) even when your engaging a target.

 

How easy is it to shoot up someone who's tunnel visioned on the target in front of him?  Pretty easy, in any aircraft.  I'm way more scared of a good pilot in a zero, spit, or tornado than a Beau.  2 of those are difficult to shake if you messed up and were too low or too slow. The latter won't even give you time to ponder what you did wrong as its speed + firepower combo quickly shred ya.

 

So, what I suggest is to use both alt ui (left alt key, set it to "push" instead of "push and hold").  Usually, I leave the view set to normal. This way, radar will show arrows pointing at you to give indication something is sbout to attack. When I notice a red arrow pointed at me, I'll tap LAlt to see what class it is. This will dictate my response.  This can be tricky to do when you're already engaged, but if you set that as your one step to work on, you'll improve. Put a post it on your monitor:  "Look at radar!!". 

 

Forget about the Beau, doing this will help you versus EVERYTHING.

 

If it is an HF, my next suggestion would be to swing your camera that direction to get a visual  (you already pressed LAlt to give you extra info).  As you swing your camera aroind, you'll get a quick look at what type of HF that is.  

 

You may lose some shooting opportunity on whatever you're chasing, but since the plane chases the camera, your essentially still chasing your target, even though you're not looking at it, if he's still in a typical banked turn-fight type of turn. 

 

If you notice that HF is not the Beau human you're worried aout, but it's a bot Bf110 and you're not really concerned about it, just keep swinging your camera around til you're looking at your target again. Finish shooting it up, if you feel you have time, then deal with evading the incoming bot.

 

If it is the Beau you're concerned about, drop your chase in whatever target you had, press f7 and begin defensive play since you are now engaged 2v1. You will need to evade whatever you were chasing as well as evade the icoming Beau.  You're goal now is too live long enough to let the Beau pass, re-acquire you previous target and crit or kill it before the Beau makes his next pass.  You've been looking at the radar, so you know if you have teammates nearby. You might try to fly towards them while pressing f7. If it's a bot fighter you were dealing with, it may go after one of your bots, particularly if you're in a blue zone with defense bots, freeing you up to focus on the Beau.

 

To avoid the first shots, turn into him, slightly left  and down and boost (so he has to steer right to line up a shot and you're giving him less time by closing the gap quicker), then come back right so he has to steer left (hopefully he's slightly rolled the wrong way also). If he's in top of you, you might  just continue your turn to end up on his tail.  If he's still afew hundred meters our, you may need a 3rd juke. With timing and practice 2 is enough to close and throw off his aim and get behind him.

 

Be careful not to turn level in front of him or not pull your initial juke far enough, he'll be trying to ram you as he goes by if he can't shoot you.

 

I just typed a lot.  Aaand, that all happens in a few seconds in game. 

 

The trick to getting better at it is to work on ONE THING AT A TIME.  If you try to do everything, you'll over think it, mess it all up, and just remain frustrated.

 

Work on watching the radar as you fight. Once that's normal habit, work on switching between LAlt and normal ui. Got that down.  Then remember to swing the cam around to make habit visual scans. Got that down.  Then practice throwing in f7 keypress in case a teammate or bot is listening and nearby.

 

Any time is a good time to practice juking heavies.  Seeing an HF coming at me and turning into him and juking his attack to get on his tail and gun him down is probably my favorite thing in the game.  He thinks you're not looking, an easy kill. Next thing he knows, you're behind him and he can't shake you.  Queue respawn screen. 

 

If you think this all sounds like too much, look at my spit vs zero vid. The whole time I'm evading the zero, I'm spamming the f7 key and watching my consumable cooldown and the radar to see if his or my teammates are going to show up 1st. 

 

Also, another thing I do is zoom the radar out when I'm not engaged and zoom it in to the 1.5km-ish range when I know I'm entering a fight.  This makes the radar more tactically useful and still gives enough evasion notice if you've got the habit of looking at radar while doing other things. Fiddling with the radar zoom is another step to add in the "one thing at a time" improvement program. You can fit it in where you like.  If you don't want to fiddle with it, leavevit close in while you work on step 1, constantly glance at the radar.  You can always use the map key for a quick peek at the strategic situation.  

 

I'm sure the really good players do all this naturally and don't even realize it.  I learned to work on situational awareness back in the day flying wingman to a better shot. I would constantly update him on the battle around us, and keep his tail clear, so he could be free to tunnel vision in on whatever he was gunning for.   It took practice and effort to keep good situational awareness (SA), but the brain muscle memory for it is still there. Unfortunately, WG removed the minimap and rearview mirror, and some HUD info that made keeping SA easier.  So, in this version I still get surprised.  

 

Also, you won't see planes in clouds, sun, or below and behind you. As far as I can determine, the "radar" doesn't see them either. Not having the minimap onscreen makes it harder to notice things disappear  (to make a mental note that it may be in cloud, sun, predator camo, etc). 

 

Energy and SA are the keys to winning the fight.  It's funny but in a lot of "what do I do..." threads someone will answer, "see and kill the other guy 1st". Then someone says, "oh, big help, sarcasm". But....it's totally true. 

 

Practice seeing them 1st. Focus on one step at a time.  Until you get to the "get behind 'em and learn 'em" step. 

 

Best of luck.

 

I'd like to point out that yesterday I survived an encounter with a Bot heavy fighter and two Beaufighter Air Defense Aircraft while on my Tornado and at critical health. Lots of fancy flying which ended up in me shooting down one of the Beaufighters and destroying the central ground target of a Military Base, capturing it. It was rather crazy, but I was able to dodge most of the damage from the heavies by figuring out when they would attempt an attack run and evading respectively. I'm sure I'm not the best fighter pilot around, so if I can do it anyone should be able to :honoring:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

hoom #50 Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:13 AM

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Its certainly got its weaknesses but its firepower is excessive.

I'd like to see it nerfed a bit: increase the performance penalty for the turret, as above make the 0.303s alternate against rockets/bombs.

That would make the player choose between a clean anti-air setup or dirty slow ground pounder.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

Mercsn #51 Posted 17 February 2018 - 06:33 AM

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View PostLMG, on 16 February 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

 

I'd like to point out that yesterday I survived an encounter with a Bot heavy fighter and two Beaufighter Air Defense Aircraft while on my Tornado and at critical health. Lots of fancy flying which ended up in me shooting down one of the Beaufighters and destroying the central ground target of a Military Base, capturing it. It was rather crazy, but I was able to dodge most of the damage from the heavies by figuring out when they would attempt an attack run and evading respectively. I'm sure I'm not the best fighter pilot around, so if I can do it anyone should be able to :honoring:

 

Nice job!  They can't kill you if they can't hit you! (And with the bots, double meaning of "hit" you, as they default to ramming if they can.)  And, no surprise that you managed to bomb something in the process.  Point of habit to attack ground targets?!

:great:


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

LMG #52 Posted 17 February 2018 - 06:42 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 17 February 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

Nice job!  They can't kill you if they can't hit you! (And with the bots, double meaning of "hit" you, as they default to ramming if they can.)  And, no surprise that you managed to bomb something in the process.  Point of habit to attack ground targets?!

:great:

 

More like escaping the last 2 heavies and taking the sector before I die, which I didn't anyways. At 12 hp even their reargun is a serious threat, and the AA was still around. But yea, coming from a GAA lets me be rather effective at blowing stuff up and hunting GAAs, though I hunt for heavies more often. I use the rockets on the Tornado since the bombs don't cut it anymore, but I do have a pair of bombkills on the Skua and Hurricane II (btw, the Hurricane II can do ground attack rather effectively)


Edited by LMG, 17 February 2018 - 06:43 AM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

trikke #53 Posted 17 February 2018 - 02:42 PM

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View Postf16falcona46, on 15 February 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

A good P-38F or P-40 player will run rings around a Beaufighter--it's just too slow. And of course, if you attack from the belly of the Beaufighter, it can't do anything against you.

 

I can tell you that I can count the number of times my Beaufighter's turret has started shooting something in front of me on one hand.

 

but from the top, those quad top turret tailgunners will saw you in half

 

that said, i personally want no changes because i do okay, with an occasional very okay, in it


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

Pogo68 #54 Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:51 PM

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View Posthoom, on 16 February 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

Its certainly got its weaknesses but its firepower is excessive.

I'd like to see it nerfed a bit: increase the performance penalty for the turret, as above make the 0.303s alternate against rockets/bombs.

That would make the player choose between a clean anti-air setup or dirty slow ground pounder.

 

 Ahh in the actual aircraft, that turret was a permanent mod, not a bolt on.

You could not take it out after it was installed.

 

If you want weight penalties, fine, but remember, cannons have weight penalties too.

The all 303 Spitfire and all Machine gun Corsairs were faster, more maneuverable than the cannon armed Spitfires and Corsairs.

And I'd want weight and drag penalties for all those bombs and rockets carried by other planes as well like the Bf/Me heavies and P-38's and MRF's.


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

hoom #55 Posted 22 February 2018 - 05:41 AM

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Block Quote

 Ahh in the actual aircraft, that turret was a permanent mod, not a bolt on.

You could not take it out after it was installed.

 That applies to most modifications to planes in the game :rolleyes:

 

Thing is only 2* Mk V with the Bolton Paul turret (& Merlin XX engines) were made.

It was an experimental config not put into production, the rest of the nearly 6,000 built had just the single 0.303 or no tailgun.

The turret was significantly draggier & heavier so should have notable performance cost so that its not the default choice to take it.

 

Possibly you're misunderstanding my 'make the 0.303s alternate'? to clarify: I meant the wing 0.303s not the turret 0.303s.

As noted by someone previously the under-wing armament was bombs or rockets not both & frequently not with the wing 0.303s so they should be alternates like on various other planes so wing 0.303/bombs/rockets.

Maybe make the 0.303s a separate option with smaller performance penalty.

 

Edit: oh Mk V also was at the expense of not only the wing 0.303s but 2 of the 20mm as well and it had no under-wing ordnance so turret/0.303/bombs/rockets option...

There absolutely shouldn't be a Beaufighter with 4* 20mm, 6* 0.303, Bolton Paul turret, 8* rockets & bombs simultaneously.


Edited by hoom, 22 February 2018 - 05:48 AM.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

hoom #56 Posted 19 March 2018 - 02:11 AM

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So in follow up to this: I decided I should put my money where my mouth is & have been running the Beau in clean anti-air mode & doing well.

Maybe there is actually enough of a performance hit from the 'dirty' mode after all?

 

Dirty gives official 490km/h top speed, flying it struggles to hit 450km/h a lot of the time, maxes maybe a bit over 500 with boost & a bit of a dive.

Clean it gets official 540km/h, hits 550km/h & much more easily. Not quite 600 but it does get there with a dive.

 

Don't particularly miss the turret, my experience it tends to not actually do all that much damage even when given a long time shooting at something, have been taken out a couple of times by human players I have no chance of shaking off/outpacing but they'd have most likely got the kill anyway even with the turret mounted.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

ComradeZ #57 Posted 25 March 2018 - 08:26 AM

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Come up from below with autocannons. I never had problems dealing with the Beaus.

Mojoe_Bailey #58 Posted 07 April 2018 - 08:57 AM

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Beaufighter is not OP, except in the hands of an expert. At most it is a really darn good plane, which is historically accurate as this thing carried victories in real life.

 

I'll be honest about why Beaufighter is not out-of-hand...so to speak. Tier V is full of giants! You've got the Emil for the Germans, a killer...the P-40 for U.S., another killer, the Spitfire, the Focke Wulf...Hurricane II blah blah blah. A tier of giants and killers! Tier V is crazy!

 

Even pros used to playing in tier X struggle when they come back to tier V after a long time away. For this reason Beaufighter is just where it needs to be to deal with the giants. I've taken out a Beaufighter with a Ki-43-II before (a weak plane), so it is a big target and easy to hit. Rear gun is strong but does not do well enough against a P-38, which is a hard counter that can outmaneuver it easily and blast it into oblivion with the potato gun, esp. when Beau is carrying ordinance and turns like a German ground attacker. 

 

I've found that I did best in Beaufighter when I picked targets from a distance and gave myself plenty of time to lead. I'd do enough damage that if I overshot the target I could easily finish it with rear gun. However, a skilled player in a fighter can easily dodge those big guns and shake the Beaufighter off...come back on Beau from the side and wreck it.



Mojoe_Bailey #59 Posted 07 April 2018 - 09:04 AM

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One final thought. If you nerf Beaufighter it will be mush like P51 and nobody will ever use it again. I'm serious. It NEEDS the firepower because it is not good at turning and it is BIG. Without it, it will become squishy and Hurricane II and Focke Wulf especially will have a field day with it. It will be like shooting balloons out of the sky with a Browning semi-automatic rifle, or more like a shotgun that is super accurate. 

hoom #60 Posted 10 April 2018 - 04:35 AM

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I'm not saying to weaken it for air-to-air.

Fly it clean and you get better air-to-air ability as is and that is as it should be, I want it changed to emphasise that historical config.

 

Its the huge amount of anti-ground ordnance which is the problem & its very unhistorical.

Giving it the historical choice of only bombs or only rockets would reduce the drag/weight penalty -> actually improve air-to-air.

If thats considered to reduce anti-ground firepower too much it can be offset with shorter reloads.

 

The turret is a huge historical issue since to mount it they had to remove 2 of the 20mm as well as the wing 0.303s, let alone any anti-ground stuff so frankly it should be outright removed. (or buff the turret stats to make it worth the loss of all the other firepower)

Maybe replace it with a made up longer range, higher-dps 0.303, double 0.303 or a 0.50 (surely someone tried that at some point)?


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.




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