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The Case for Nerfing and/or Removing The Beaufighter.


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Poll: Bristol Beaufighter: Too good? (41 members have cast votes)

Does the Beaufighter have too many strengths?

  1. yes (5 votes [12.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.20%

  2. no (35 votes [85.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 85.37%

  3. I don't know (1 vote [2.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.44%

Was the Beaufighter okay pre-2.0 or was it always this OP and game-breaking?

  1. it was okay pre-2.0 (16 votes [39.02%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 39.02%

  2. it was always this way, just WG never rectified the situation. (5 votes [12.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.20%

  3. I don't know (20 votes [48.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.78%

Nerf or remove the Beaufighter: what say you?

  1. nerf the Beaufighter (3 votes [7.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  2. remove the Beaufighter, and replace it with the more balanced Bristol Beaufort (1 vote [2.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.56%

  3. I don't know (35 votes [89.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 89.74%

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legoboy0401 #1 Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:07 AM

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Ladies and Gentlemen(and I suppose, unicorns, mermaids, cats, and attack helicopters), I've had enough! After seeing(in one night) 6 or 7 instances of a Beaufighter totally carrying the game and getting Grade 2 Heavy Fighter or better, it seems the main determining factor of a game is whether a team has a highly skilled player in a Beaufighter. If your team doesn't,  but the enemy team does, YOU LOSE, NO IFs, ANDs, or BUTS about it, usually IN UNDER 4 minutes. This plane simply breaks the game here in 2.0, as it is one of two planes at Tier V which are nigh-impossible to defeat when controlled by a half-decent player unless you have large amounts of team support.(The other being the AD 10C2)

 

I propose that we remove the Beaufighter entirely from the tree, make it a premium, tone it's stats back quite a bit before it is released, and replace it with the it's predecessor historically, the Bristol Beaufort. It should have much more balanced weaponry while still retaining the great external weapons payload that the current Beaufighter has. I mean, folks, the current Beaufighter's guns are just too strong. It outclasses anything else available at Tier V by a wide margin.

 

Let's put it this way, the closest score to the Beaufighter's is the SE 100's gun armament score, because it has 4 20 mm auto-cannons. When we look over at the Beaufighter, not to be out-done, it ALSO has 4 20 mm auto-cannons(with identical stats, mind you, so 320 max damage per second on those, when their dps is added up), BUT it also adds to that 150 more dps points, with 6 0.303 Brownings as well, GIVING IT AN ABSURD MAX DPS OF 470. Sadly, this isn't the end of the Terminator's Beaufighter's flat-out ridiculous armament. Because, as surely you all know by now, the Beaufighter's upgraded turret(actually the turret off the Boulton Paul turret fighter Defiant) can fire straight ahead, boosting 470 dps up to about 566(!) dps.

 

NOT ONLY THAT, but it gets the best health pool of any Heavy Fighter of Tier V, and no person in their right mind is going to be content with only 420 health, so they'll boost it into the stratosphere with Reinforced Airframe and maybe Protection Expert.

 

It IS the slowest, but it turns quite well for a Tier V heavy fighter, and mysteriously, though it has the same optimum altitude as the SE 100 AND HAS MORE MASS, it climbs faster. Because, you know, reasons.

 

In addition, though something like the SE 100 can only attack other planes, the Beaufighter is, as we've seen, the undisputed king of Heavy Fighters at Tier V when it comes to dogfighting, and YET, for some reason, it ALSO gets to be the king of Tier V Heavy Fighters when it comes to attacking ground targets.

 

This plane, as I said in the beginning, breaks the game here in 2.0, and I think you now know better why I said that and think that. The Beaufighter, I have no doubt in the world, was not exactly 100% OP nor totally game-breaking pre-2.0. Sadly, it now is.

 

I have made a poll so I can see what you guys think of the current situation with the Beaufighter, use it, and pick which ones you feel are necessary and/or accurate.

 

Regards, Legoboy0401


Edited by legoboy0401, 15 February 2018 - 03:33 AM.

Remember, remember the 14th of... June, the day of patch 2.05.  Some say it's great end-game content, some say it's horrible, but history will always recall which it actually was.

 

Spoiler

 


SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:27 AM

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Biased poll - no option to say the Beaufighter is honestly fine as it is. 

 

Let's be clear - the Beaufighter is a powerful, newbie-friendly machine that can tear people apart from all directions. Its got more firepower than the Atlantik Wall, more hitpoints than the Montana and as fast as any heavy fighter in game.

 

But it has its weaknesses - its vulnerable to being swarmed, its turret doesn't track or turn very fast so quick slashing attacks can get in and out without taking much damage and it doesn't fire once you start maneuvering violently. Its ground attack ordnance is quite absurd, but so is the ground attack ordnance of the entire British heavy tree up until tier 9. 

 

A well flown Beaufighter is an extremely dangerous foe, but so are the P-38F (which is a fantastic tier V heavy), Spitfire I (which itself is almost OP) and BF110E. All of these are very powerful tier 5s and both the 110E and 38F are arguably better fighters than the Beau. Certainly they're much better interceptors and if I had to choose between the three, I'd take the 38F for its versatility over the Beau.

 

The OP-ness of the Beau comes from the fact that its an easy plane to fly so Bots and average players can do well in them, but put a Beau in a match with a human bomber player and the Beau will cry. Its quite helpless when being boomed by other heavies as well. I don't fear Beaufighters much. I don't even play my Beau anymore even though I keep it in my hanger for old times' sake.


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


legoboy0401 #3 Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:40 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 14 February 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

Biased poll - no option to say the Beaufighter is honestly fine as it is. 

 

Let's be clear - the Beaufighter is a powerful, newbie-friendly machine that can tear people apart from all directions. Its got more firepower than the Atlantik Wall, more hitpoints than the Montana and as fast as any heavy fighter in game.

 

But it has its weaknesses - its vulnerable to being swarmed, its turret doesn't track or turn very fast so quick slashing attacks can get in and out without taking much damage and it doesn't fire once you start maneuvering violently. Its ground attack ordnance is quite absurd, but so is the ground attack ordnance of the entire British heavy tree up until tier 9. 

 

A well flown Beaufighter is an extremely dangerous foe, but so are the P-38F (which is a fantastic tier V heavy), Spitfire I (which itself is almost OP) and BF110E. All of these are very powerful tier 5s and both the 110E and 38F are arguably better fighters than the Beau. Certainly they're much better interceptors and if I had to choose between the three, I'd take the 38F for its versatility over the Beau.

 

The OP-ness of the Beau comes from the fact that its an easy plane to fly so Bots and average players can do well in them, but put a Beau in a match with a human bomber player and the Beau will cry. Its quite helpless when being boomed by other heavies as well. I don't fear Beaufighters much. I don't even play my Beau anymore even though I keep it in my hanger for old times' sake.

 

Yeah, no, SpiritFox, my poll is designed to weed out those who don't think the Beaufighter needs changes. It originally did have an option to say the Beaufighter didn't need changes, although it was worded as such to make people who voted that way look bad. Unfortunately, that plan backfired when someone chose that option anyway. This, of course, was unacceptable(the reason I didn't want people to be able to vote that way is because I know that many arrogant, lazy sealclubbers adore the Beaufighter and want it to remain OP, thus they would try to claim it doesn't need a nerf), so I changed that answer to I don't know, so that such sealclubbers couldn't have a say in favor of their heavily biased position.

 

I ALSO see you conveniently left out my point about the Beaufighter's ridiculous firepower.


Remember, remember the 14th of... June, the day of patch 2.05.  Some say it's great end-game content, some say it's horrible, but history will always recall which it actually was.

 

Spoiler

 


FreeFOXMIKE #4 Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:45 AM

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you forgot leave as id in the last choice 

           332 Virtual  Fighter  Group

 


Bobby_Tables #5 Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:49 AM

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Yo there OP,

 

I think I did a couple of posts like this years ago after having my rear handed to me a couple times by a particular plane.  

 

Basically, people told me to not to rage post and just get gud.  

 

Plenty of Tier 5 planes that will shred the Beau, so get over it.  If it's so OP, play it exclusively for a couple of days and come back here to modify your post and let us know how well you do.  I, and the other 10 people who read the forums, will be looking for you!  :playing:

 

PS:  Hint: it's a really big plane and you can hit it blindfolded with your mouse behind your back.  


Edited by Bobby_Tables, 15 February 2018 - 04:54 AM.


ExploratorOne #6 Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:28 AM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 14 February 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

 

Yeah, no, SpiritFox, my poll is designed to weed out those who don't think the Beaufighter needs changes. It originally did have an option to say the Beaufighter didn't need changes, although it was worded as such to make people who voted that way look bad. Unfortunately, that plan backfired when someone chose that option anyway. This, of course, was unacceptable(the reason I didn't want people to be able to vote that way is because I know that many arrogant, lazy sealclubbers adore the Beaufighter and want it to remain OP, thus they would try to claim it doesn't need a nerf), so I changed that answer to I don't know, so that such sealclubbers couldn't have a say in favor of their heavily biased position.

 

I ALSO see you conveniently left out my point about the Beaufighter's ridiculous firepower.

 

Hmmm, biased poll (bolded parts above even show that the bias is intended.)  When questions are formed to elicit a certain answer, it makes the results useless.  Many of us do NOT do well flying the Beau because of the reasons SpiritFox listed.  It is nice having them as Air Defense bots, though, because they can be easy to take out when done right.


Edited by ExploratorOne, 15 February 2018 - 05:29 AM.


LMG #7 Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:38 AM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 14 February 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

Yeah, no, SpiritFox, my poll is designed to weed out those who don't think the Beaufighter needs changes. It originally did have an option to say the Beaufighter didn't need changes, although it was worded as such to make people who voted that way look bad. Unfortunately, that plan backfired when someone chose that option anyway. This, of course, was unacceptable(the reason I didn't want people to be able to vote that way is because I know that many arrogant, lazy sealclubbers adore the Beaufighter and want it to remain OP, thus they would try to claim it doesn't need a nerf), so I changed that answer to I don't know, so that such sealclubbers couldn't have a say in favor of their heavily biased position.

 

I ALSO see you conveniently left out my point about the Beaufighter's ridiculous firepower.

 

Well, the Hurricane II also gets quad 20s, on top of turning better. Personally I found that much firepower on a tier V light fighter a bit on the "very strong" side, though on a heavy it's more reasonable given the drawbacks. I have learned several ways to avoid taking too much fire from heavy fighters, though I can't quite put them on paper yet as they're more reactive than planned at the moment. Thanks to those maneuvers I have found the Hawker line to be effective Heavy Fighter hunters, and my Tornado really gives Beaufighters a run for their money (and my Hurricane II gave them some headaches as well).

 

Overall I can't really say just how strong it is, as I haven't flown it, nor do I really plan to, but to me it's just another heavy with a fancy turret at the end of the day. I haven't even seen anyone fire with all guns + the reargunner either, and I believe the reargun dps stat lies from my GAA experiences (if the IL-20's reargun was indeed 192 dps then fighters would die a lot faster than they do right now)

 

Edit: Also, you might want to edit the title of your poll. Don't ask "Too good?" if we can't answer "No" :sceptic:


Edited by LMG, 15 February 2018 - 05:46 AM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

SpiritFoxMY #8 Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:07 AM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 15 February 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

I ALSO see you conveniently left out my point about the Beaufighter's ridiculous firepower.

 

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 15 February 2018 - 04:27 AM, said:

Let's be clear - the Beaufighter is a powerful, newbie-friendly machine that can tear people apart from all directions. Its got more firepower than the Atlantik Wall, more hitpoints than the Montana and as fast as any heavy fighter in game.

 

OP, seriously. If all you want is a head nodding circle-jerk, I politely invite you to take it and shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

The Beaufighter is powerful, but it isn't overpowered. It may SEEM that way to newbies - that much I will admit. But that's because newbies really haven't learnt the art of boom and zoom and off-angle attacks (plus many of them haven't learnt proper trigger discipline so their use of cannon isn't efficient). I think at tier 5 its high time that people learn what happens to fighters who sit on the tail of a guy with a big [edited]gun turret. Mostly bad things.

 

Ultimately I think its a nice, safe plane for noobs to faff around in until they either get bored and go elsewhere or get bored and get good with other airplanes. 

 

If there WAS a plane I'd nerf, its the XP-58, but that's my own pet peeve. It really isn't all that powerful and plenty of airplanes I've found frustrating to deal with I've learnt to overcome through a little bit of introspection and determination (hated the Zero, hated the A-26, hated the XP-75). The Beaufighter is the same - I used to think it was overpowered (it was the first plane I earned a Winged Legend achievement on, hence why I keep it in my hanger), but time and experience with a bunch of other airplanes has lead me to believe that it isn't as overpowered as it seems at first glance. 

 

As for your accusation about sealclubbing... dude, its tier 5. At that tier, its no longer clubbing - tier 5 is the "Git Gud" tier with monsters like the Spitfire I (no mention about sealclubbers flying this? Seriously? The sealclubber supreme?) just eating people alive. The Beaufighter is just one more shark in a sea full of sharks (or a sky full of hawks) at tier 5.  It isn't even the worst offender.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 15 February 2018 - 06:10 AM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


YagabodooN #9 Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:40 AM

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I have to agree with Fox, Spits, Hawkers and Zekes are the prime mid tier griefing planes in the current meta, but they have their weaknesses (like getting rekt at full health in a single BnZ sweep by any heavy)

 

As for the Beau, have you ever heard of the p38?  Because it flies circles around them.  I also find that the Beau's top/belly profile is very easy to hit and unlike the DH Mosquito / Hornet at upper tiers, Beaus tend to stay in the lower alt zones a little more often.  Yes, if left unchecked they can carry games but get on their case and there is little they can do. 



f16falcona46 #10 Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:30 AM

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A good P-38F or P-40 player will run rings around a Beaufighter--it's just too slow. And of course, if you attack from the belly of the Beaufighter, it can't do anything against you.

 

I can tell you that I can count the number of times my Beaufighter's turret has started shooting something in front of me on one hand.

 

The Beaufighter has many strengths (firepower and durability), but it also has significant weaknesses (slow speed, slow turret turning speed, lower rate of climb, low optimum altitude).

 

And if you're going to be disingenuous and not put a "the Beaufighter does not need to be nerfed" answer on your poll, people won't treat your post seriously. You are not interested in feedback, you are only interested in confirmation of your opinion. So far, zero out of the six people who voted on your poll voted to remove or nerf the Beaufighter.



Seraphil #11 Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:16 AM

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lol, just having a lot of firepower doesn't make something OP.
ムリ( ' x ' )ダナ

Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #12 Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:28 AM

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Based on past actions in this and their other titles, if WG chooses to ''nerf'' the current batch of borderline or directly OP units those tweaks to the game as a whole will just engender a new bunch of over the top performers.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

 

5801234590.png

 

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The_Wild_Weasel #13 Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:47 PM

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just fly it yourself...that what I did ...or we could all drive White "Lada's" and only vanilla ice cream?

 

cant beat em ....join'em


Edited by SlappedbyPatton, 15 February 2018 - 12:48 PM.


FIight #14 Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:49 PM

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Beaufighter is good, OP? No.

Nerf? No, simply make other planes stronger will solve the issue. 

We don't want the balance at the cost of nerfing one particular plane, 

they kept nerfing firepower, nerfing LFs, HFs, and nerfing low altitude

planes. 

Beaufighter is good for head on and trolling ppl, but once someone gets

on its tail, it can do pretty much nothing. Even a spitfire is fast enough to

stay on its tail. If P228, Javelin, P1056 and Hornet is not OP, then Beaufighter

is definitely not OP.



Hiro_Yoshi #15 Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:10 PM

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Just wait until Lego faces off against a competent XF5U player. The rant will go on for ages.

NorthernPorter #16 Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:31 PM

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The Beaufighter is a real pain when in the hand of a good pilot, and it being able to carry those 6x .30cals, 4x 20mm, and another 4x .30cals to the rear does feel a bit heavy handed, especially when on the receiving end of the lead. But you compare it to the other tier V HF's and its only real strengths are firepower and HP.

 

So with that, I just try to stay out from in front of it and keep my speed up so I can climb and attack from above.

 

I don't like to see many things get nerfed because it just waters down the uniqueness of each aircraft and takes away from the challenge.



tahee59 #17 Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:17 PM

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LOL I cant beat it so nerf it or remove it .

that is what happened to ground pounders cry babys like you need to learn the game instead of calling for nerfs.  Cant wait till the op gets into it with the me 410 oh his tears will taste great.


Edited by tahee59, 15 February 2018 - 04:51 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #18 Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:43 PM

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View PostHiro_Yoshi, on 15 February 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Just wait until Lego faces off against a competent XF5U player. The rant will go on for ages.

 

Oh, I don't think you even need to wait for that - I'm certain we'll have a "nerf XP-58/Ta-152" thread as soon as he sticks his nose in tier 8. I mean, you think the Beaufighter's firepower is OP? Wait until you've been one-shot killed from 900m away by a Ta-152 you didn't even KNOW was looking at you. Or when you're engaged in a dogfight and suddenly BAM SURPRISE CHAIN LIGHTNING. That thing has quad 37mms that kill Light and Multirole Fighters in a single volley while having a P-51A strapped to its tail. And it can chase down jets so don't think you can outrun that insane murder machine.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 15 February 2018 - 03:46 PM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Blucraft #19 Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:19 PM

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I fly mostly heavies and see the Beaufigther as  a nice juicy target  :great:.

 

-Blu



Spyshadow01 #20 Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:38 PM

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The Beaufighter being the undisputed king of Tier 5 Heavies is something of a laughable claim when it's hard-countered by the P-38F.  Personally, I've never thought much of the Beaufighter as a plane; I think you're overly aggrandizing its strengths while being far too dismissive of its weaknesses.  Or, judging from a statement made in the first paragraph, you encountered a good player who did very well and are attributing those results to the plane and not their own skill. 

 

Something I really want to know is your reasoning behind the AD 10C2 being another unbeatable aircraft, that explanation should be amusing, especially since that plane is itself almost a polar opposite of the Beaufighter.


Edited by Spyshadow01, 15 February 2018 - 04:43 PM.





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