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Speed and Engine Upgrades - The Definitive Answers


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YagabodooN #1 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:09 AM

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So, I got bored, and curious about how WG defines the speed of aircraft in this very arcade-like game.  Speed and altitude is energy and energy is what wins fights and is therefore the most important aspect of any flying game no matter what.  WG are not exactly clear on what is what and what exactly upgrades what.  I conducted some tests using different speed and engine modifications individually in the training room on a stock BF109G to find out. 

I used aerodynamics expert to increase the effect of the silver cost upgrade parts from 5% to 7% and made sure to do them individually as well as with a control test, an engine guru skill only test and a test with the top upgrade engine only (1475hp DB605 - 2000hp DB605ASC).  I also tested the improved radiator silver upgrade part.  I wont bore you with numbers unless you guys are really curious but I found some fundamental truths that are good to know.

 

-  The only upgrades that improve coasting speed are Aircraft Polish upgrade and the research upgrade engines. 

-  Maximum level flight speed (achieved by using boost) is only improved by Aircraft Polish and the research upgrade engines.

- Aircraft Polish increases your coasting airspeed, the time required to reach your upgraded speed is the exact same as the time it takes to reach default coasting airspeed without it; meaning you essentially accelerate a bit more in the same amount of time. 

- Engine tuning increases your acceleration to your coasting airspeed but does not increase your coasting airspeed or maximum speed

- Engine tuning seems to increase idle acceleration about twice as much as the description would suggest

- Both Engine tuning and Aircraft Polish buff the speed gain from boost by the exact same amount. 

- research engine upgrades increase both maximum and coasting airspeed as well as acceleration.

- max dive speed can NOT be affected by anything but the researched airframe upgrades.

- the 'Engine guru' pilot skill works the same way as engine tuning and has an effect slightly greater than the description would suggest

- the Improved Radiator upgrade only takes effect when using the 'air brake' feature, if you never use air brake it will have absolutely no effect on gameplay. 

 

TL;DR - Upgrade your engine for god sake.  Yes you do use your guns, turn and take damage every match but you aren't doing that every single second, your engine IS working for you every second of the game, engine upgrades are almost constantly in effect.  Improved radiator seems pretty bad unless you use airbrake a lot and need to regain energy a bit faster, it perhaps needs a buff to give 30% better cooling all the time.


Edited by YagabodooN, 13 February 2018 - 05:31 AM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #2 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:14 AM

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Numbers please, I'm interested.:great:

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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YagabodooN #3 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:17 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 13 February 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

Numbers please, I'm interested.:great:

 

Theres a lot of numbers and test specifics, most conform close to what item descriptions say and I really don't want to type them all.  Which are you most curious about?

SpiritFoxMY #4 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:37 AM

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View PostYagabodooN, on 13 February 2018 - 01:17 AM, said:

 

Theres a lot of numbers and test specifics, most conform close to what item descriptions say and I really don't want to type them all.  Which are you most curious about?

 

All of it to be honest. Did you take a look at energy retention by any chance?

 

From what you say, that means maximum dive speed is the fastest you would ever go? Also, for Improved Radiator: what's the ratio of climb to recovery (that is, for 5 seconds of boost in a climb, how much altitude would I gain vs how much I'd need to lose to recover that 5s boost while maintaining optimum airspeed with my engine on idle)? 


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 13 February 2018 - 01:43 AM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


mnbv_fockewulfe #5 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:53 AM

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View PostYagabodooN, on 13 February 2018 - 01:17 AM, said:

 

Theres a lot of numbers and test specifics, most conform close to what item descriptions say and I really don't want to type them all.  Which are you most curious about?

 

Best way to do is just to sort it out into a spreadsheat. If you have all the data written down by hand I can't help you.

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nwlxn12 #6 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:56 AM

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Nothing about "Cruise Flight"?  I know it only works out of battle but still.



YagabodooN #7 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:56 AM

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heres some more details, I wrote most of it on paper because reasons. 

 

Test aircraft = BF109-G (stock)
stock stats
Stock engine DB605 - 1475 HP
Top speed at best alt - 650
Max dive - 820
Optimum airspeed - 440
NOTE!- Aerodynamics expert was used on equipment tests to increase the default 5% buff to 7% to make results more noticeable, decimal points are rounded to the nearest tenth second.  All tests were conducted at the starting altitude on the Alpine map (approx 1500m) well within the ideal altitude band for the messer 109, it didn't seem to matter what alt as long as you were within the ideal band, speeds took major hits around the orange and red altitudes although I didn't record all of them up there.  All tests were conducted in as level flight as possible and a minimum of 3 runs each were done with times averaged.  I chose a map that would not have me fly through any AA or enemy bases.  For acceleration tests I coasted down to 200kph and timed how long it took to get back to optimum airspeed.  For the boost test I coasted down to 200kph and boosted to see what speed the plane would achieve at the very end of the boost.  For top level speed I boosted, and when boost was fully recharged, boosted again.  I did not test for energy retention during dives and steering. 

Max Idle speed
Control - 440
Polish upgrade - 471
Engine tuning - 440
Engine guru skill only - 440

 

Max Level speed
Control - 650
Polish upgrade - 696
Engine tuning - 650
Engine guru only - 650

 

200kph to optimum airspeed
Control - 27.4 seconds to 440
Polish upgrade 27.4 seconds to 471
Engine tuning - 23 seconds to 440
Engine guru only - 24 seconds to 440
Bonus test DB605 ASC upgrade - 25 seconds to 460

 

200k Boosted speed
Control - 547
Polish upgrade - 587
Engine tuning - 587
Engine guru only - 579
DB605 ASC upgrade - 591

 

Max Dive speed
(cannot be changed with engine and speed mods)

 

8 second total boost
Control Cooldowns
idle - 21s
brakes - 21s

Improved Radiator cooldowns
idle - 21s
brakes - 15s

 


Edited by YagabodooN, 13 February 2018 - 04:21 AM.


YagabodooN #8 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:57 AM

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View Postnwlxn12, on 13 February 2018 - 01:56 AM, said:

Nothing about "Cruise Flight"?  I know it only works out of battle but still.

 

damn, forgot about that skill, but based on the description I have no reason to believe it works any differently than the other engine buffs. 

comtedumas #9 Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:09 AM

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View PostYagabodooN, on 12 February 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

So, I got bored, and curious about how WG defines the speed of aircraft in this very arcade-like game.  Speed and altitude is energy and energy is what wins fights and is therefore the most important aspect of any flying game no matter what.  WG are not exactly clear on what is what and what exactly upgrades what.  I conducted some tests using different speed and engine modifications individually in the training room on a stock BF109G to find out. 

I used aerodynamics expert to increase the effect of the silver cost upgrade parts from 5% to 7% and made sure to do them individually as well as with a control test, an engine guru skill only test and a test with the top upgrade engine only (1475hp DB605 - 2000hp DB605ASC).  I also tested the improved radiator silver upgrade part.  I wont bore you with numbers unless you guys are really curious but I found some fundamental truths that are good to know.

 

-  'Optimum airspeed' is the speed your plane goes while level with no control input, its your effective cruise speed.  The only upgrades that improve it are Aircraft Polish upgrade and the research upgrade engines. 

-  Maximum level flight speed (achieved by using boost) is only improved by Aircraft Polish and the research upgrade engines.

- Aircraft Polish increases your optimum airspeed, the time required to reach your upgraded speed is the exact same as the time it takes to reach default optimum airspeed without it; meaning you essentially accelerate a bit more in the same amount of time. 

- Engine tuning increases your acceleration to your optimum airspeed but does not increase your optimum airspeed or maximum speed

- Engine tuning seems to increase idle acceleration about twice as much as the description would suggest

- Both Engine tuning and Aircraft Polish buff the speed gain from boost by the exact same amount. 

- research engine upgrades increase both maximum and optimum airspeed as well as acceleration.

- max dive speed can NOT be affected by anything but the researched airframe upgrades.

- the 'Engine guru' pilot skill works the same way as engine tuning and has an effect slightly greater than the description would suggest

- the Improved Radiator upgrade only takes effect when using the 'air brake' feature, if you never use air brake it will have absolutely no effect on gameplay. 

 

TL;DR - Upgrade your engine for god sake.  Yes you do use your guns, turn and take damage every match but you aren't doing that every single second, your engine IS working for you every second of the game, engine upgrades are almost constantly in effect.  Improved radiator seems pretty bad unless you use airbrake a lot and need to regain energy a bit faster, it perhaps needs a buff to give 30% better cooling all the time.

What about the special pilot skill “cruise flight?”


Edited by comtedumas, 13 February 2018 - 02:09 AM.


comtedumas #10 Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:12 AM

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Sorry, just saw the above.  

hoom #11 Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:31 AM

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Interesting stuff.
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

pyantoryng #12 Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:55 AM

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With the flaps key back the airbrake needs to be returned to just idle engine and not deploying flaps. Makes radiator very impractical for all but a selected few (namely, J8M) because you are forced to bleed extra speed (due to flaps being deployed) with the normal airbrake and without throttle percentage there's no way to know whether you really had idle your engine or you are still at low throttle when you control the throttle manually.


Edited by pyantoryng, 13 February 2018 - 02:56 AM.


WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

ARCNA442 #13 Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:30 AM

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Good work.

 

Your numbers make it seem like Polish may be more useful than is commonly assumed.



YagabodooN #14 Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:19 AM

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I may have made an error about 'optimum airspeed' 

 

Ran a few more of my planes through the training room and not all of their cruise speeds conform to the 'optimum airspeed' stat provided when not using a speed upgrade.  I guess the 109G just perfectly matches that stat and it threw me off...sorry

 

 

Now Im confused as to what actually determines cruise speed. 



soydivision #15 Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:10 PM

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I believe "optimum airspeed" refers to the airspeed at which your plane maneuvers (turns/rolls?) best.  Combine this with "optimum altitude" and that should be your sweet spot for max handling.

mnbv_fockewulfe #16 Posted 14 February 2018 - 01:30 AM

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Optimum airspeed is an obsolete spec (used to show speed for best turning/rolling) since airplanes now complete a turn in the same amount of time anywhere within the "white" airspeed zone. So optimum is now right where the "yellow" zone touches the "white" zone.

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