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The EXP and Mastery Points thread

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pyantoryng #1 Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:34 AM

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Once and for all, let's give a place where the topic of EXP and Mastery Points can be centrally discussed on.

 

I'll take one of my posts from another thread where I responded on the question of death = more EXP to start:

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In response to the questions regarding death and EXP gain. Note the lower-right number in the left statistics and the mastery points on every pics

 

Here's an example of a 2000 mastery point game...with EXP breakdown tooltip, which I died once.

 

Spoiler

 

Another 2000-pointer, in defeat, dying thrice.

 

Spoiler

 

Compared to a pretty epic match in IL-10 which I survived all the way through and won.

 

Spoiler

 

A 1099B-2 match which I fought my back off and survived

 

Spoiler

 

Some high-mastery point fighter examples

 

Spoiler

 

Some fighter examples where I survived all the way through and earned epic achievements

 

Spoiler

 

To put it in words...you will stop earning mastery points (i.e. EXP) at some point in carrying your tasks. It is hard to exceed 1,200 mastery points in one life due to playing well won't lend to mastery points earnings, and what you earn from caps out (that, or the game over too quickly from very good play preventing players from scoring many mastery points). The things that infinitely rewards mastery points (Fire Breathing, Rocketeer, Bombardier, Ramming Attack) only do so in miniscule amount (like 20 or so a pop) and are hard to pull off consistently.

 

Meanwhile, if you respawn, all those main things you do to earn mastery points reset, allowing you to get mastery points from them again. Another 15 kills, 15 assists, another 10k combat points before capping out again.

 

However, you need to survive for long enough to get epic achievements, while some (Kozhedub) requires that you survive the entire post-squall battle.

 

In other words, playing well is [partly] contradictory to how EXP is gained. Although the victory bonus itself (before daily bonus) is significant and should not be discounted for earning more mastery points in defeat.

Dying many times does not necessarily imply more EXP...it is true only when you can repeat your performance to let the mastery points flow once again.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Link to EU topic on earning - I find the coefficients there correspond to my observations: http://forum.worldof...for-all-planes/

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What earns you mastery points : reconstructed with more details

 

Enemy combat group aircraft (Enemy player and named bots) kills (2,5,8,10,15). Self-explanatory. GAA and bombers can get some of these too.

 

Air defense aircrafts killed (2,5,8,10,15) In practice rarely exceeding 5 due to being busy fighting the enemy that are not defense planes.

 

Assists (2,5,8,10,15). Tend to be overlooked, and actively going for assists means your team might be toast before they can get the killing blow. A GAA or bomber passing by might chip a few planes with their rear gunner and those scratched planes subsequently killed for this portion. Meanwhile, this means that the only thing you lose from getting your kills stolen are combat points, you might actually gaining even more EXP that way if you manage to get some kills yourself later on.

 

Ground Targets destroyed (2,5,8,10,15). GAA and Bombers' sustenence. Multirole and heavies can chip in on these occasionally as well...even light fighters if they can nip off some stuff on their last legs, but they are better off shooting at planes.

 

Combat Points (1000, 2000, 4000, 7000, 10000). Anything that gives combat points will do. The main way bomber flights contribute to your EXP (assists maybe? not sure).

 

"Minor" achievements (Rear Cover, Bombardier, Rocketeer, Ramming Attack, Fire Breathing). These add a small amount of mastery points (hard to observe without replays I'd say, but I can confirm that Fire Breathing adds 20 to mastery points - Soviet lady literally breaths fire on everything she can get her guns on assuming there's something to start the fire). These are separate from the main ones above, and seems to have no cap so you get the trickle every time you get them, but doing those things all the time can be difficult.

 


Edited by pyantoryng, 06 February 2018 - 01:55 PM.


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FIight #2 Posted 06 February 2018 - 12:57 PM

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Spoiler

 



pyantoryng #3 Posted 06 February 2018 - 01:01 PM

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Mastery points IS EXP, no doubt about it, same goes for combat points and credits.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

ArrowZ_ #4 Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:03 PM

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Yep. Looks like you do earn more mastery points with more deaths it seems.Another example of conquest promoting the use of respawns. I've always wondered how mastery points is calculated towards your total exp. Sure would like to know the official formula behind this in their blog.


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Shizzywiznut #5 Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:03 PM

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I am noticing that on your examples some that the mastery points are lower, your EXP and free EXP are much higher, yet on others with higher Mastery your EXP and free EXP are much lower.

 

I would prefer to see a breakdown of the formula what gives points EXP and fee EXP in a match

ex: Mastery Points ~ Combat Points ~the number of player deaths ~  targets destroyed ~ targets destroyed while defending ~ time in battle ~ assists ~ plane performance (GA used for ground, etc.) ~victory or defeat = some random variable.

Currently no one has that answer, unlike pre 2.0 you could understand the breakdown and even with a loss, if you performed well you could reap some reward. There also tended to be on a more frequent occasions close matches, sometimes a win or loss could come down to seconds, and much more comradery between players was shown.

 

In the current state it looks to be random as to what constitutes a well played match, how well you performed does not have any correlation to anything that makes practical sense. Knowing what the formula that WG is using, if explained may give a better incentive for players to perform within a spectrum and will in turn show players where they may improve to gain EXP and have much closer matches.

 



MARS_REVENANT #6 Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:47 PM

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So far I have asked the direct question to 2 of the developers and they couldn't tell me how mastery is calculated.  So I have given up trying to figure it out as we do not have access to the game data.  This is all just speculation, although it would seem to be onto something about dying, we don't know the 'why' behind it, or maybe it is how many points are earned during each sortie or how much time capping/vs defending, or dogfighting.  Do any of the special achievements have anyting to do with it? such as Avenger?

 

Anyway, they have said they are going to remove the mastery points as it is too confusing and include more detailed battle results.

 

This has been going on for a long time... we never really knew how EXP was calculated either... but we did know the more kills/damage you did, the better which was simple.

 

The new mastery points can be explained in my thread as well http://forum.worldof...__fromsearch__1


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MARS_REVENANT #7 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:03 PM

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I just got this as a response from Priolia on her Discord server:

 

Block Quote

 

Priolia-Today at 2:19 AM

@MARS_REVENANT about mastery points mechanics - I've already explained it on one of my streams atm you get mastery points for Enemy Kill series A series of assists Defenders kill series Ground objects destruction series Collected battle points (by stages) Ram kills Fire kills Destruction of a ground object with fire Rocket kill Bombkill Rear gunner kills Revenge 25% influence 50% influence 100% influence(edited)

 

So there are multipliers for special achievements and streaks.

 


Edited by MARS_REVENANT, 06 February 2018 - 03:05 PM.

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pyantoryng #8 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:36 PM

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View PostShizzywiznut, on 06 February 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

I am noticing that on your examples some that the mastery points are lower, your EXP and free EXP are much higher, yet on others with higher Mastery your EXP and free EXP are much lower.

 

I would prefer to see a breakdown of the formula what gives points EXP and fee EXP in a match

ex: Mastery Points ~ Combat Points ~the number of player deaths ~  targets destroyed ~ targets destroyed while defending ~ time in battle ~ assists ~ plane performance (GA used for ground, etc.) ~victory or defeat = some random variable.

Currently no one has that answer, unlike pre 2.0 you could understand the breakdown and even with a loss, if you performed well you could reap some reward. There also tended to be on a more frequent occasions close matches, sometimes a win or loss could come down to seconds, and much more comradery between players was shown.

 

In the current state it looks to be random as to what constitutes a well played match, how well you performed does not have any correlation to anything that makes practical sense. Knowing what the formula that WG is using, if explained may give a better incentive for players to perform within a spectrum and will in turn show players where they may improve to gain EXP and have much closer matches.

 

 

There is also tier level and aircraft type (mostly concerning GAA vs other planes) to consider. The EU thread on that topic gives out some figures, which I find to be quite accurate. Said thread postulates earning formulae too.

 

Admittedly, those examples are for a very rudimentary showcasing of how dying gives more chance to earn mastery points. I'll need to get some better ones...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

pyantoryng #9 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:53 PM

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View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 06 February 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

I just got this as a response from Priolia on her Discord server:

 

Priolia-Today at 2:19 AM

@MARS_REVENANT about mastery points mechanics - I've already explained it on one of my streams atm you get mastery points for Enemy Kill series A series of assists Defenders kill series Ground objects destruction series Collected battle points (by stages) Ram kills [Ramming Attack] Fire kills [Flame in the Skies] Destruction of a ground object with fire [Fire Breathing] Rocket kill [Rocketeer] Bombkill [Bombardier] Rear gunner kills [Rear Cover] Revenge [Avenger] 25% influence 50% influence 100% influence(edited)

 

 

So there are multipliers for special achievements and streaks.

 

 

I don't think those are multipliers, but additions of more mastery points, most likely 100 at a time. What she doesn't say is that those series/streak reset after you respawn to get it all over again. I wasn't aware that influence percentage gives mastery points...or is it...

 

I saw that training room has mastery points...I should try that sometime...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

MARS_REVENANT #10 Posted 06 February 2018 - 06:19 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 06 February 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

 

I don't think those are multipliers, but additions of more mastery points, most likely 100 at a time. What she doesn't say is that those series/streak reset after you respawn to get it all over again. I wasn't aware that influence percentage gives mastery points...or is it...

 

I saw that training room has mastery points...I should try that sometime...

 

If you have more questions you can join Priolia's Discord server.  Note this is her personal server, it is open, and not an official WarGaming channel of communication.  She does answer questions.  You will be booted if you are misbehaving.

 

https://discord.gg/R9VRUau


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pyantoryng #11 Posted 06 February 2018 - 06:44 PM

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I've made a run to 15GT/10k Combat Points/2 plane destroyed by 1099B-2 (with standard ammo to prevent fire starting and fire-breathing interfering) in a training room (using three TSh-2 as bots to prevent them from doing anything meaningful and using Alpine Gambit/Narrow Pass for the numerous Garrisons as control)...it was hard to monitor the point gains in-flight in detail because of the constant motion and the fact that kills and combat points come together making individual point-gain a matter of inferrence, but I've noticed some interesting things...

 

The mastery point gain seems to be have a diminishing return as the streak goes higher. The initial 2 kills/1000 combat points gives 100 mastery points each (total 200)...5 kill/2000 points gives 80 each (total 160; grand total 360)...8 kills/4000 points gives 60 points each (total 120; grand total 480), 10 targets killed gives 40 points (at this point accurate monitoring is no longer possible with 25% superiority adding 200 points - this is an inferrence after the final number of 100 at first did not add up - into the grand total), and 15 targets killed gives 20 points. I bagged two planes after 15 targets (bot TSh-2s made easy targets) and I got an additional 100 points. I infer that the air kill points would work the same way. 10000 combat points was reached soon after, and it only adds 20 mastery points same as 15 targets. At the end, 100% superiority added 50 mastery points. The final tally of that testing match was 1,050.

 

Added together, a full streak/series is 100+80+60+40+20 = 300, meaning, 15 targets killed = 300Mpts+10000 combat points = 300Mpts+2 enemy plane kills = 100Mpts+25% Superiority = 200Mpts+50% Superiority = 100Mpts+100% Superiority = 50Mpts...

 

300+300+100+200+100+50=1050 mastery points.

 

The archaic-style progression of the mastery points with texts:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 


Edited by pyantoryng, 06 February 2018 - 07:38 PM.


WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Mercsn #12 Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:00 PM

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Lol, punished for surviving AND punished for getting more kills with diminishing returns! 

 

Good job doing the experiment.  Persha just needs to go full co-op vs ai.  What other "PvP" game punishes a player for staying alive AND for earning kills?!


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ArrowZ_ #13 Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:17 PM

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They're going backwards on the kills streak system lol

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pyantoryng #14 Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:23 PM

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I did a quick test with BV212 mowing up some TSh-2s...air kills are calculated the same way, although the important thing I found was that Rocketeer is worth 20 points, and a full health plane is worth 1000 combat points when downed from 100% to 0.

 

With how experience is being calculated, having the killstreak go upwards will probably result in something like permanent double x5 bonus with top tier fighters...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

El_Mulo #15 Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:14 PM

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Mastery points daily mission ===> No problem will flip it

 


What we say to death?

ArrowZ_ #16 Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:42 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 07 February 2018 - 06:53 AM, said:

With how experience is being calculated, having the killstreak go upwards will probably result in something like permanent double x5 bonus with top tier fighters...

 

Or they could just copy the similar template of most successful games in the past with a kill streak/combo system with points increasing based on their multiplier, having say a x5 kill streak be the max multiplier limit reaching say 20 kills (since that's the threshold for an ace medal) etc. Instead of gradually being lowered because reasons *shrug* But ofcourse they want to be unique and "original".

 

Regardless, thx for sharing pyan. Def an interesting read. 


Edited by ArrowZ_, 07 February 2018 - 12:45 AM.

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Hurk #17 Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:54 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 06 February 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Lol, punished for surviving AND punished for getting more kills with diminishing returns! 

 

Good job doing the experiment.  Persha just needs to go full co-op vs ai.  What other "PvP" game punishes a player for staying alive AND for earning kills?!

most of them, its a pretty standard anti-snowball mechanic actually. in this game its improperly used though. 

i've said it since i first started playing 2.0, they hired someone that played too much DOTA and didnt understand why the mechanics for complete kills, etc, exist in that game and they badly implemented them here.


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pyantoryng #18 Posted 16 February 2018 - 12:01 PM

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I'm suspecting that the first place position actually gives extra mastery points at match's end...I'll need look into that...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #19 Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:22 PM

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I ended up last night in a tier VIII match with the Mustang versus a flight of extremely purple folks in tier IX planes; the other human on my team was also in a tier VIII.

Our bots outscored theirs save for the highest earning heavy fighter & attack aircraft in the match, which were also on red - we lost by 200 odd points with a match length of just under nine minutes.

 

Player (1) of the flight scored [First] in Me P.1092:

Spoiler

 

Player (2) of the flight scored [Second] in La-160:

Spoiler

 

Not a lot of difference between mastery points for three times the aerial damage and almost twice the kills.

 

 

I managed just 5,975 CP -> 1,294 XP & [First] out of it, outscoring every plane of both teams save the purple folks, but losing around eight kay silver.

Least they didn't ''gg'' into the chat, because it sure wasn't - just an awful slog towards a predetermined failure where getting near any capture point was basically suicide


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pyantoryng #20 Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:59 PM

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Enemy kills after 15 in a single life will not factor into mastery points. The points gotten from each ticks gets progressively lower as those go higher.

 

Without any idea of when and how they score it is nearly impossible to tell the whole story of how their mastery points come from.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.




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