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Seal-clubbing, my fat fanny


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IronWolfV #41 Posted 05 February 2018 - 12:23 AM

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I guess even Though I have quickly figured out how to knock out 15k+ games, I have too few games to be seal clubbing.

This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. You sneak up behind your enemy and you bash him over the skull. I know this, so does Scar. That's why I'm gonna kill him.

-Starbuck, Battlestar Galactica


Mercsn #42 Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:27 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 04 February 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

 

Doesn't matter the motivations, a spade is a spade

 

You said it. The OP REEEEALY wants to convince himself he's not a seal clubber. 

 

Skilled players in newbie tiers are there for the challenge and good dogfights.

 

Those are his words.

 

He also likes low tiers because "high hit point pool can't save you if you make a mistake."  What he fails to realize is that time-to-kill is, by design and intention, much longer in lower tiers.  Hit points are lower, but dps is much lower.  Well, unless one flies dps outlier like the xp-31, a couple russians, or maybe a french premium.

 

OP is certainly entitled to his opinion about what tier has the best dogfights. But, the more he types, the more he confirms that he has enough skill and experience to fit in the common definition of a seal clubber, as do those who are also skilled and offering him the "good dogfights" he touts. 

 

My point, without having to sound out words or use crayons, is that the OP'S title and thread theme are in conflict with his words and that there are seal clubbers in lower tiers and, despite his rationalizations, he's one of them. 

 

I also agree that he can play however he chooses, in so far as he's not violating rules. But, I also posit that his style of play, seal clubbing, hurts new player retention and potential game longevity.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

CorvusCorvax #43 Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:47 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 05 February 2018 - 02:27 AM, said:

 

But, the more he types, the more he confirms that he has enough skill and experience to fit in the common definition of a seal clubber, as do those who are also skilled and offering him the "good dogfights" he touts. 

 

My point, without having to sound out words or use crayons, is that the OP'S title and thread theme are in conflict with his words and that there are seal clubbers in lower tiers and, despite his rationalizations, he's one of them. 

 

I also agree that he can play however he chooses, in so far as he's not violating rules. But, I also posit that his style of play, seal clubbing, hurts new player retention and potential game longevity.

I only fit that definition because that's how YOU define it.  I do not accept your definition.  So therefore, you are wrong.  See how easy that was?

 

If I don't kill the lower skill players unless they shoot at me first, then how am I discouraging them from playing?  Hmmm?  Finally, I have said on more than one occasion that there are indeed seal clubbers out there.  Your contention that I say they don't exist is just as stupid as your assertion that skilled players in lower tiers are only there to club seals. 

 

But I think you have convinced me that I need to try harder to just shoot down every plane I see, and try and see just how high a score I can get.  And maybe, on the basis of your comments here, I will specifically target human players of the lowest skill first.  Because if I am going to club, I'm going to do it the best I can, hmmm?  A month of that should be enough to prove my point, I think.



Doc_Ebs #44 Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:13 PM

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I just hit 300 battles and I rarely venture into low tier unless I am starting a new line. I clicked with this game fairly quickly so low tier is not a challenge nor is it fun.

CorvusCorvax #45 Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:37 PM

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View PostDoc_Ebs, on 05 February 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

I just hit 300 battles and I rarely venture into low tier unless I am starting a new line. I clicked with this game fairly quickly so low tier is not a challenge nor is it fun.

 

It depends on what you are doing.  Cap a garrison with both heavy and light fighter cover, all by yourself in a plane with more than half its hit points gone?  Try it before you say it's a walk in the park.  If all you're doing is shooting down rookie bots as fast as you can, then yes, its a bit tedious.  

Doc_Ebs #46 Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:06 PM

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View PostRico_CotC_, on 05 February 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

 

It depends on what you are doing.  Cap a garrison with both heavy and light fighter cover, all by yourself in a plane with more than half its hit points gone?  Try it before you say it's a walk in the park.  If all you're doing is shooting down rookie bots as fast as you can, then yes, its a bit tedious.  

 

Many of my low tier fights are done with a single spawn some with a respawn. I chase caps that my bots lose and pick my battles. There is just not enough fun at 2,3,4 for me and I run to get out of them as fast as I can. I play mostly 5,6,7 right now as that is where most of my planes are.

CorvusCorvax #47 Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:26 PM

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View PostDoc_Ebs, on 05 February 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

 

Many of my low tier fights are done with a single spawn some with a respawn. I chase caps that my bots lose and pick my battles. There is just not enough fun at 2,3,4 for me and I run to get out of them as fast as I can. I play mostly 5,6,7 right now as that is where most of my planes are.

 

I see.  So, by your own admission, you are a seal-clubber.  Cool, welcome to our, errr, club.

 

The funny thing is that I can fly a whole T6 battle with my P-38 and never get shot down by staying at altitude and going after bombers and other HFs, and this *isn't* seal-clubbing, even though all I do ist dive, shoot, climb under boost and dive down again.  Most HFs I can out-turn, so even if it becomes an HF turn-fight, I still win.  For LFs, I don't have to turn, I don't have to even think about what I am doing.  Swoop down, fill them full of lead and zoom off, never getting a scratch.  I can come directly under a bomber, out of the cone of defensive fire, and shoot it down without receiving a single point of damage in return fire, and yet that's supposedly okay.  But going down to T2 and being mindful of the folks down there is clubbing them.  I guess I just don't understand how some people think.



IronWolfV #48 Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:08 PM

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View PostRico_CotC_, on 05 February 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

 

I see.  So, by your own admission, you are a seal-clubber.  Cool, welcome to our, errr, club.

 

The funny thing is that I can fly a whole T6 battle with my P-38 and never get shot down by staying at altitude and going after bombers and other HFs, and this *isn't* seal-clubbing, even though all I do ist dive, shoot, climb under boost and dive down again.  Most HFs I can out-turn, so even if it becomes an HF turn-fight, I still win.  For LFs, I don't have to turn, I don't have to even think about what I am doing.  Swoop down, fill them full of lead and zoom off, never getting a scratch.  I can come directly under a bomber, out of the cone of defensive fire, and shoot it down without receiving a single point of damage in return fire, and yet that's supposedly okay.  But going down to T2 and being mindful of the folks down there is clubbing them.  I guess I just don't understand how some people think.

 

mid tiers is not seal clubbing. Sub tier 4 is. By tier 5 in any WG title, sorry you're out of seal territory. Sink or swim. Or in this case: fly or fall.

This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. You sneak up behind your enemy and you bash him over the skull. I know this, so does Scar. That's why I'm gonna kill him.

-Starbuck, Battlestar Galactica


CorvusCorvax #49 Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:34 PM

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View PostIronWolfV, on 05 February 2018 - 07:08 PM, said:

 

mid tiers is not seal clubbing. 

I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I think I'm getting it.  If there are seals, and I am holding a club, I am a seal clubber, even if I never swing the club at a seal.  Even if I let the seals nibble at my ankles, and wait until I have lost enough blod for it to be dangerous, I am a seal clubber, because there are seals, and because I carry a club.

 

If all I ever do it whack other seal clubbers with my club, I am still a seal clubber, because seals exist, and I have a club.  By Cthulu, it really is mind-boggling.

 

Well, no matter.  For the month, I will try and fly four or five times a day and just target low-scoring human pilots.  it doesn't seem like much fun, but maybe I'll warm to the task?



wscarter007 #50 Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:44 PM

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Rico this a fight you won't win, if you like to fly bi-planes go for it.  Everyone enjoys certain aircraft, I myself like 4-5 due to the fact those are my fav wwii  planes. 

trikke #51 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:02 AM

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it's a struggle for me to fly low tier, because my memories of being clubbed will stick with me for such a long time

 

i'm so focused on not being the reason why a new person decides to quit

 

i didn't quit, but i would welcome some kind of game coding that would maybe prevent 50% of my shells from hitting a new person 

 

probably not the russian way, so we'll never see it

 

how about bright red vert and horiz stabilizers for the first 100 battles?


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Doc_Ebs #52 Posted 06 February 2018 - 06:32 AM

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View PostRico_CotC_, on 05 February 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

 

I see.  So, by your own admission, you are a seal-clubber.  Cool, welcome to our, errr, club.

 

The funny thing is that I can fly a whole T6 battle with my P-38 and never get shot down by staying at altitude and going after bombers and other HFs, and this *isn't* seal-clubbing, even though all I do ist dive, shoot, climb under boost and dive down again.  Most HFs I can out-turn, so even if it becomes an HF turn-fight, I still win.  For LFs, I don't have to turn, I don't have to even think about what I am doing.  Swoop down, fill them full of lead and zoom off, never getting a scratch.  I can come directly under a bomber, out of the cone of defensive fire, and shoot it down without receiving a single point of damage in return fire, and yet that's supposedly okay.  But going down to T2 and being mindful of the folks down there is clubbing them.  I guess I just don't understand how some people think.

Lol I think you are the only person that would feel a new player at 300 battles would be a seal clubber. Bad troll is bad.



CorvusCorvax #53 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:41 PM

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View PostDoc_Ebs, on 06 February 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

Lol I think you are the only person that would feel a new player at 300 battles would be a seal clubber. Bad troll is bad.

 

Not a troll.  I am genuinely confused about this whole business, because everybody has a different definition and threshold.  If you have the skill to constantly score the top score on your team - seal-clubber, t1-3.  Above that, you're just playing the game.  How many battles doesn't factor in, only if you have a club, and there are seals.  That's it.  Fighting well in T6 planes?  Don't fly down-tier, because seal-clubbing.

 

I type it out and shake my head, because the whole business sounds so incredibly idiotic.  I never gave it a second worth of thought before coming on this forum.  It was about seeing what I could do without the assistance of quality team mates.  Just working on game mechanics and options, not even for air-to-air wins or anything else - just to fly the planes.  But since I've played the game since forever ago, I'm a seal clubber when I fly low tiers.  I guess it all makes sense to SOMEONE.

 

But we'll see what it's like after a month.  I do like the red livery idea.



trikke #54 Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:41 PM

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auto-removal of red tail feathers at 200?300? battles flying in any tier gives new folks a fighting chance to learn to fly and learn the 2.0 capping mechanism 

 

as long as there is a new shame category on all of our player profiles called 'beginner kills'    (added to all of the other shame categories that i have)

 

you'll see a running total of the red tails that you've killed, after your own red tail had been auto-removed during your 'graduation ceremony'

 

i'll guess that new folks would love this, but how could this be advertised as a draw for new folks?   

 

"Come enjoy a short period of relative safety from vets that abide by norms of civility, and get killed only by other new players (and mean guys who only see you as flying dollar signs)

 

 

what about a combination of red tails and a xvm-like mod that adds a @ in front of the new guys' names, like the i-am-a-bot mod?

 

edit; is it xvm or vxm?


Edited by trikke, 07 February 2018 - 03:43 PM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

CorvusCorvax #55 Posted 07 February 2018 - 05:56 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 07 February 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

auto-removal of red tail feathers at 200?300? battles flying in any tier gives new folks a fighting chance to learn to fly and learn the 2.0 capping mechanism 

 

as long as there is a new shame category on all of our player profiles called 'beginner kills'    (added to all of the other shame categories that i have)

 

you'll see a running total of the red tails that you've killed, after your own red tail had been auto-removed during your 'graduation ceremony'

 

i'll guess that new folks would love this, but how could this be advertised as a draw for new folks?   

 

"Come enjoy a short period of relative safety from vets that abide by norms of civility, and get killed only by other new players (and mean guys who only see you as flying dollar signs)

 

 

what about a combination of red tails and a xvm-like mod that adds a @ in front of the new guys' names, like the i-am-a-bot mod?

 

edit; is it xvm or vxm?

I kind of like it.  I might also remove their signature from the radar.  That way, the only way you find them is if you get into visual range.  Surely, 200 games is enough to give someone an idea about the controls and game mechanics, yes?



Wombatmetal #56 Posted 07 February 2018 - 06:11 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 07 February 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

auto-removal of red tail feathers at 200?300? battles flying in any tier gives new folks a fighting chance to learn to fly and learn the 2.0 capping mechanism 

 

as long as there is a new shame category on all of our player profiles called 'beginner kills'    (added to all of the other shame categories that i have)

 

you'll see a running total of the red tails that you've killed, after your own red tail had been auto-removed during your 'graduation ceremony'

 

i'll guess that new folks would love this, but how could this be advertised as a draw for new folks?   

 

"Come enjoy a short period of relative safety from vets that abide by norms of civility, and get killed only by other new players (and mean guys who only see you as flying dollar signs)

 

 

what about a combination of red tails and a xvm-like mod that adds a @ in front of the new guys' names, like the i-am-a-bot mod?

 

edit; is it xvm or vxm?

 

I think this will just lead to griefing, people would try to see how many red tailfeathers they pluck. Just like in the old days on the forum when you could down vote, people made obnoxious posts to see how many down votes they could gather.

 

Anything that can be twisted and used to grief will be



Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #57 Posted 07 February 2018 - 06:51 PM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 07 February 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Anything that can be twisted and used to grief will be

The sad truth about any kind of gaming or social venue; ''I can be a [jackhole] without consequence, because anonymous.''

 

 

As for the discussion, at any tier I don't seek out the other humans but if we do meet in range of guns then yeah, it's air combat; as someone impressed upon me you win or you die, there isn't an in between state.

Sometimes it sucks, for both parties - even more so with 2.0 where running away or maneuvering away is for a majority of the time an impossibility, so folks might as well try to take another plane with them before going down.

I quite often don't shoot first or just fly away though if it looks like the other human has enough on their plate and/or isn't aware of me.

 

 

Although I barely even run my first check flight of a session to see how the game is working at tier IV or V anymore, instead I'll usually take out the Nationalist Mustang-K.

Over the past month I'm not even sure I've played half a dozen matches at tier II & III; those planes and that playstyle just don't interest me.


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 08 February 2018 - 12:01 AM.

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SlappedbyRommel #58 Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:56 PM

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Well last night I was at the end of the seal clubbing man can a seal dance but really I was getting shredded by a person who had 986 games and before that how many in 1.9. By the end of the game it had 18k so really that is stat padding I have seen enough of that in WOT but I hope in the future either to get better or WOP will do something to prevent a WOT clone in seal clubbing it doesn't make the game any fun at that point for new comers in tier 2. Just a note I have just started now with over 100 games feeling this game out but its frustrating seeing the ground many times with the explosion ringing in my ears.........

CorvusCorvax #59 Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:37 PM

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View PostSlappedbyRommel, on 08 February 2018 - 05:56 PM, said:

Well last night I was at the end of the seal clubbing man can a seal dance but really I was getting shredded by a person who had 986 games and before that how many in 1.9. By the end of the game it had 18k so really that is stat padding I have seen enough of that in WOT but I hope in the future either to get better or WOP will do something to prevent a WOT clone in seal clubbing it doesn't make the game any fun at that point for new comers in tier 2. Just a note I have just started now with over 100 games feeling this game out but its frustrating seeing the ground many times with the explosion ringing in my ears.........

 

Flight up with me, and we'll go hunting.  That's my favorite part about flying the low tiers is taking on experienced pilots.  A buffed-up I-5 can turn inside almost anything, and you can sucker them down into the weeds and make them crash into stuff.  Unless you come up on someone with another buffed I-5.  Then you are going to have to figure out how to get him in a place where he's out of energy and boost, then surprise him somehow.  My favorite thing to do.  :)

Leo_1408 #60 Posted 09 February 2018 - 04:39 AM

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Anyone who looks at my stats will see I'm a baby seal, rather than a seal-clubber, but I disagree that seal clubbing drives people away from the game. The effect it has on me is to drive me to get better at fighting and to try and get higher level planes. I bought my first premium planes this Christmas cos I got some money from my uncle. So I was able to splurge on an Me109TL, a Mk1 Spit, and an XP31, with which I am trying to complete the missions which require 1 -4, 5-7, and 8-10 classes.

 

I get shot down a lot, but it's only a game, and it's loads of fun. So no problem with being 'clubbed' quite often. :)






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