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Spitfire vs Zero: Any tips or tricks?


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Huma474 #1 Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:36 PM

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I'm trying to get better at WoWP while playing my spitfires (up to a mk14 now, just unlocked it). The only planes I ever seem to have trouble dog fighting with are Zeros and I think is cause I haven't managed to work out a good strategy for how to fight with them. Anyone have any tricks for how they dog fight against Zeros or other nimble fighters ?

ArrowZ_ #2 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:04 PM

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One way I can think of is to climb. But you need speed and energy initially with ample boost for the situation. No boost, no speed or energy = you're pretty much a goner. Best advice - keep a look out for them zeros and keep your distance. Always engage when the zero is unaware.

 

Pretty much can apply to anything really. 


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BirdForce #3 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:30 PM

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Bot zeros are usually easy to deal with.. they'll get bored and fly off.. Human zeros can be an issue.. when I see one on the enemy team.. I will always try to be a bit higher than all the planes in the area.. see if he is around and target him first.. Dive in.. do as much damage and fly off before he can get behind me.. If I kill him great.. if not just hope I damage a wing and get him on the next pass.

Kiwiav8r #4 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:53 PM

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Countering the A6M line the trick is speed.  You want to have it up your sleeve because you need to use it to get away.  Dive from altitude and make slashing attacks but don't track them for more than 30 degrees off your original course or you'll bleed too much energy.  If you are moving fast enough by the time they've turned onto your tail you'll be well out of cannon range.  Climb up to altitude again, rinse and repeat.  If they follow you up,  keep climbing at speed until they start to stall out (the Zero has a poor maximum ceiling), turn around and blow them out of the sky.

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vcharng #5 Posted 25 January 2018 - 01:34 AM

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the most surefire way is to kill them before they kill you. I don't own a Zero, but I did play it when my friend came for a visit and allowed me to use his account to try some planes I don't have, and Zeroes have... Zero robustness, I would say.

Always look for more agile planes when you enter a furball, for example if you are flying a Spit, look for Japanese planes, if you're flying a Tornado, look for light fighters and especially Spits and Japanese.

If they are already at your six you will not have a good chance of winning, Zeroes are fine as they are slower and have altitude problems, but the IJA ones will almost certainly kill you.



El_Mulo #6 Posted 25 January 2018 - 04:16 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 25 January 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

the most surefire way is to kill them before they kill you. 

 

WOW!!!!!


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Mercsn #7 Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:55 AM

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View PostEl_Mulo, on 24 January 2018 - 10:16 PM, said:

 

WOW!!!!!

 

But....it's true though.  The easiest way to deal with a zero, in a spit, is to attack him first.   

 

Always prioritize aircraft that are the biggest threat to you. If you attack first, even if you don't kill him, you may crit a wing or tail allowing you a chance to turn fight him. 

 

If you didn't notice him first and evade /disengage, try using the turning consumable, mashing f7, transition between horizontal and vertical turns  (loops), fly around obstacles  (terrain, trees, radar towers, etc) to break his lead angle by forcing him to also dodge obstacles.  Then, hopefully, you live long enough for him to get bored or someone responds to your f7 call for help. 

 

Be wary of trying to out run one in a straight line. The 20mm have good range. 

 

I'v heard Reppu drivers complain of not having altitude to be potent as tier 7 matches sometimes pull everyone up.    And, at tier 8, that line disappers as a threat. 


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Prenzlau #8 Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:27 PM

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If you get an opponent behind you that you cannot out turn, try to turn but at a downward angle, like a corkscrew maneuver, about 45 degree downward twist, towards the ground, (hopefully you will have some attitude to work with). This (might) buy you some time, because you are a more difficult target because you are actually slightly spiralling away from their guns. You then hope for a mistake on their part, or for another plane to interrupt. If your still alive and the ground is coming, then readjust and start the spiral upwards, in a corkscrew, but never an even turn. This is not a high percentage solution, but I have seen it work on occasion with other factors at play. A skilled pilot will shoot you down if they have the advantage of position with a plane that has better turning. For what its worth...

Edited by Prenzlau, 25 January 2018 - 07:28 PM.


Johnny_Wishbone #9 Posted 26 January 2018 - 01:31 AM

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You don't dogfight a zero if you're flying a Spit.  You just don't.  The Spit fights at altitude MUCH better than the Zeros, and has much better energy retention.  So you transition to BnZ-type tactics when you fight a zero.  Use your superior speed, altitude, and energy retention to kill him in a series of bites.  The Spit is one of those aircraft that is actually able to go back and forth between TnB and BnZ, depending on the opponent.



MagusGerhardt #10 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:04 AM

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And if by some chance, OP, you get jumped by a Zero type aircraft and he is on your tail, don't try to out turn him.  That's the IJN's game.  What you want to do is use the Spitfire's stronger roll rate to break him off your tail.

 

The Zero can't roll, meaning that if the direction of the turn suddenly reverses, he can't follow very quickly.  Once he's recovered from the initial break....break again.  Rinse and repeat until the Zero buzzes off or a friendly comes to the rescue.

 

But yeah; it's a much better idea to just spot and kill the Zero before you slow down and dig in to the furball.


 

 

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vcharng #11 Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:03 AM

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View PostMagusGerhardt, on 26 January 2018 - 03:04 AM, said:

And if by some chance, OP, you get jumped by a Zero type aircraft and he is on your tail, don't try to out turn him.  That's the IJN's game.  What you want to do is use the Spitfire's stronger roll rate to break him off your tail.

 

The Zero can't roll, meaning that if the direction of the turn suddenly reverses, he can't follow very quickly.  Once he's recovered from the initial break....break again.  Rinse and repeat until the Zero buzzes off or a friendly comes to the rescue.

 

But yeah; it's a much better idea to just spot and kill the Zero before you slow down and dig in to the furball.

 

I don't think the Zero rolls that slow compared to Spit, but I do agree that this is a very viable tactic. Too many times have I out-rolled opponents with superior turn rates, but inferior roll rates in my Corsairs.

Pogo68 #12 Posted 27 January 2018 - 11:24 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 26 January 2018 - 01:03 AM, said:

 

I don't think the Zero rolls that slow compared to Spit, but I do agree that this is a very viable tactic. Too many times have I out-rolled opponents with superior turn rates, but inferior roll rates in my Corsairs.

 

Why are you dogfighting a Zero?

The only thing that can reliably dogfight a zero in this game (IRL an all 303 Spit could turn with a Zero, stall speeds were comparable), at least a competently flown Zero is a Ki-43 or maybe a Tier 3-4 bi-plane.

 

 

 


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Johnny_Wishbone #13 Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

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View PostPogo68, on 27 January 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

IRL an all 303 Spit could turn with a Zero, stall speeds were comparable...

It's more than just stall speed.  Maneuvering speed (Vref), the speed at which you can pull the most G without stalling, also matters.  So it doesn't really matter what the stall speed is (up to a point).  If plane A's Vref is greater than plane B's Vref, then plane A has a problem.  A DC-3 has a lower stall speed than an F-16, but which would you rather fly in a furball?



MagusGerhardt #14 Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:23 PM

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View PostPogo68, on 27 January 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

 

Why are you dogfighting a Zero?

The only thing that can reliably dogfight a zero in this game (IRL an all 303 Spit could turn with a Zero, stall speeds were comparable), at least a competently flown Zero is a Ki-43 or maybe a Tier 3-4 bi-plane.

 

 

 

 

We're discussing dogfighting Zeros because that is the premise and question the OP had.

 

I was covering what to do in the eventuality that he misses spotting the Zero and one gets on his tail.


 

 

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hoom #15 Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:18 AM

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 If you attack first, even if you don't kill him, you may crit a wing or tail allowing you a chance to turn fight him. 

 This.

Against a full health Zero a single attack pass may not kill him but a lot of the time he'll be damaged enough that it does.

If you score a wing/tail crit you should be able to turn with him or slow his getting on your tail enough that you have time to speed away.


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Mercsn #16 Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:24 AM

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As low as I was on hitpoints, I decide the lesser of two evils is to turn with him and hope he makes a mistake (and I don't) or that blue helps arrives.  The Zeros can get around surprisingly quick and I just didn't have the hitpoint cushion to try and out run/climb the reach of his 20mm cannon, which bite hard.


 

Throughout the fight (which lasted about 90 seconds, based on the cooldown of my turning consumable, I was alternating brake and boost and using flaps once I remembered to drop them. (Actually, I probably thought they were already down, but since the only indicator is by actually looking at the wings to see the flap position, it's sometimes hard to tell if they're up or down depending on the viewing angle and how busy the scene is!)


 

What I would have liked to done better, since he was having trouble following, was transition more often and more drastically between vertical and horizontal turning (turns and "loops").  However, I was severely distracted by my low hitpoints and very wary of stalling out, with him having a lower stall speed and those 20mm cannons (which I wouldn't have survived one hit from).


 

I think the key to playing with a Zero if you're in a Spitfire, is to have an opponent that isn't terribly good at anticipating and countering maneuvering, having consumables, and, of course, having holes in your wings to lighten the aircraft and improve maneuvering!


 

Oh, and having teammates who show up is also helpful!  Although, with flaps and the turning consumable combined with some vertical/horizontal transitions, I may have been able to get another shot at him.  This was my plan when the consumable was nearing it's timer, just about the time the bots show up.  I can't say whether they were responding the "F7" I was spamming the whole time or if they just decided I had been entertaining enough and they'd come get a kill while he was distracted chasing me.


 

Speaking of distracted.  For whatever reason, the Zero let me kill that Yak in the opening sequence, in favor of chasing down my bot teammate.  I'm guessing either he didn't see me or just saw red chasing that bot.  Either way, I did get the jump on him and did crit him.  The crit was on the pilot, though, and he used a medkit right away.  I'd been hoping for a wing or tail crit or a fire!  WG <3 RNG!


 

This probably is not an example of what to do, but it's an example of a Spit dueling a Zero.    A player with better gunnery would have splashed the Zero in the initial attack.  A player with better luck avoiding 20mm return fire might have used speed to make an escape and come back for another pass.  As mentioned, I felt I didn't have the HP cushion to get away before he got the 20mm on me.  As it was, he only pinged me with the lighter MGs.


Edited by Mercsn, 05 February 2018 - 06:04 PM.

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Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

trikke #17 Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:16 PM

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i'm always too nervous to transition to vertical... gj brother 

 

in general, is a gradual transition safer than an abrupt one?     or does it even matter if both planes are relatively even turners

 

"tactical overshoot"     good one!    i'm gonna steal that!

 

excellent vid!


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SpiritFoxMY #18 Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:31 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 05 February 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

i'm always too nervous to transition to vertical... gj brother 

 

in general, is a gradual transition safer than an abrupt one?     or does it even matter if both planes are relatively even turners

 

"tactical overshoot"     good one!    i'm gonna steal that!

 

excellent vid!

 

Gradual transitions give too much time for the opponent to see what you're doing and react IMO. Depending on the plane I guess. 

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SpiritFoxMY #19 Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:35 PM

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Nice fight. I really think you made the right choice to turn with him - at your HP, running would have been dicey at best. I'm very impressed you kept it alive so long.

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NorthernPorter #20 Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:49 PM

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Like everyone is saying, you need speed when dealing with a Zero. Come in from on high, line up your shots, make them count, and get the hell out of dodge.

Also what works for me is to jump in the plane giving me grief and learn it's weaknesses and what makes for a tough target. Then when I'm in a fight against that plane, I can try to implement that in my attack/defense.

 

I think I was in a couple games with you this weekend when flying my Zero.






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