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Flipping Poll


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Poll: Useless flipping poll. (34 members have cast votes)

Best plane to flip a mining plant solo?

  1. GA (18 votes [52.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.94%

  2. Multirole (3 votes [8.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  3. Fighter (1 vote [2.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

  4. Heavy (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Bomber (12 votes [35.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.29%

Best plane to flip a Garrison solo?

  1. GA (6 votes [17.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.65%

  2. Multirole (3 votes [8.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  3. Fighter (14 votes [41.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.18%

  4. Heavy (4 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  5. Bomber (7 votes [20.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.59%

Best plane to flip an airfield (no repair) solo?

  1. GA (5 votes [14.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.71%

  2. Multirole (3 votes [8.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  3. Fighter (17 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  4. Heavy (3 votes [8.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  5. Bomber (6 votes [17.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.65%

Best plane to flip a airfield (with repair) solo?

  1. GA (3 votes [8.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  2. Multirole (3 votes [8.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  3. Fighter (18 votes [52.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.94%

  4. Heavy (4 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  5. Bomber (6 votes [17.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.65%

Best plane to flip a military base solo?

  1. GA (16 votes [47.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.06%

  2. Multirole (5 votes [14.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.71%

  3. Fighter (2 votes [5.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

  4. Heavy (1 vote [2.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

  5. Bomber (10 votes [29.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.41%

Best plane to flip a command center solo?

  1. GA (9 votes [26.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.47%

  2. Multirole (4 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  3. Fighter (6 votes [17.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.65%

  4. Heavy (2 votes [5.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

  5. Bomber (13 votes [38.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.24%

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nwlxn12 #1 Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:53 PM

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Making my first poll.

Just curious what opinions are about which planes you think are best at flipping zones if you were doing it without help.  Depending on what plane you are flying, some zones are easier to flip than others.


Edited by nwlxn12, 23 January 2018 - 06:55 PM.


pyantoryng #2 Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:12 PM

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GA for anything not airfield/base...bomber for airfield/base...

 

Fighters would just bungle against horde of defense planes and obscenely powerful AA...


Edited by pyantoryng, 23 January 2018 - 07:13 PM.


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Dru83 #3 Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:15 PM

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With these, it really depends on whether or not there are other enemy planes in the cap. If there are, then bombers have the best chance as it is a lot harder for most planes to get enough altitude to shoot them down. If there aren't any enemy fights around, fighters are better for garrisons and airfields/airbases. Multi-roles or heavies are good for Comm centers and mil bases. I think GA's are best for mines.

 

The thing to remember is some planes cannot take some caps solo. Fighters cannot take mines, comm centers, or mil bases solo. MR's and HVY's can only take comm centers and mil bases solo if they have a lot of ground attack ordnance. Only bombers and GA's can take mines solo unless there's enemy aircraft over the mine.



LMG #4 Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:25 PM

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Unlike popular belief, GAAs don't actually capture Garrisons that fast. They have no trouble getting it, but to flip a hostile Garrison you have to destroy all but 3 of its ground targets, and that's if no allies die over it. It's a lot quicker to knock out some Air Defense Aircraft. Forward Airstrips cannot be captured solely by ground target kills, you don't have enough points. It requires at least one air defense aircraft kill or for the ground targets to respawn. Airbases have a lot of AA that can really screw over a GAA early on if it doesn't have long-range weaponry; I've had times where just one Airbase takes out about 1/4 - 1/3 of my health from a bad initial engagement. Bombers and Fighters should be able to get them easilly enough, though. Command Centers could be captured solely through air defense aircraft kills, but there's a lot of low-altitude AA that can ruin the day of a fighter. GAAs also suffer from being hit hard by all the low-altitude AA + the light fighters that can sit on your tail for a while. However, I think they have an easier time capturing them than Bombers since they can quickly dispatch all the Ground Targets anyways, and are not punished as much if they miss one building or two. Mining Facilities are kind of a no-brainer; GAAs or low-flying bombers can capture it no problem. Bombers that fly high, however, will take a heavy beating.

 

And then comes the oddball Military Base. Fighters are no good because there's only two heavy air defense aircraft on it. However, groundpounders also have an odd time with it because of the weird layout. The soft ground targets + the central one are not enough, so you have to take out AA emplacements, but all of them have two armored buildings, so it can become quite troublesome to capture for anything that doesn't have a lot of ordnance or really big cannons. And the Heavy Air Defense Aircraft tend to deal a lot of damage to GAAs. Bombers don't have it any better while being shot at by six AA guns, on top of having the Air Defense Aircraft on your tail 24/7. It's really weird, but I'll say GAAs have the least painful time capturing them :amazed:

 

That said, GAAs can capture any sector on their own if they have a tailgun or are good at bombkilling. Bombers come second due to the Forward Airstrip limitations and weakness to AA. Next I'd say Multirole and Heavy fighters since they can poke at Military Bases and Mining Facilities with ordnance and/or ok-ish weaponry, and lastly Fighters since they rely on shooting something not standing still to capture sectors


Edited by LMG, 23 January 2018 - 09:28 PM.

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SpiritFoxMY #5 Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:45 PM

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With the exception of the missile base and mining plant, a fighter can solo the others if its pilot is good. Garrisons especially can be capped in one good boom.

 

I can confirm that the Do217M CAN one-pass a Command Center though, so a bomber is my choice for flipping this one.


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Desmios #6 Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:19 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 23 January 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

GA for anything not airfield/base...bomber for airfield/base...

 

Fighters would just bungle against horde of defense planes and obscenely powerful AA...

 

You'd think that... but... I can take everything but a mining plant in my fighters.

Mercsn #7 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:41 AM

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I had a tough time deciding between bomber or fighter (any class, MR, HF, or F) to capture a plant.  Enemy bots in bombers and GA go there, players like them too since they are bomber/GA buffets.  So, a fighter can counter-GA/Bmb and cap the zone.   I chose bomber because, while less sneaky, less fun, and less mean to the other team, it's probably best.


 

I like bombers for flipping most things.  They can get a command center or military base.  They are also good for garrisons and airfields because they can tailgun a defense bot or two to death while reloading bombs.


 

I also like fighters for flipping most things.  On a command center or missile base, it may require flying out and waiting for respawn, if it's only defense bots present and not at all captured, so I selected bomber as best for that.


 

I would say GA and bomber could be interchangeable, but to me bombers are fast GA.


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SpiritFoxMY #8 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:35 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 24 January 2018 - 04:41 AM, said:

I had a tough time deciding between bomber or fighter (any class, MR, HF, or F) to capture a plant.  Enemy bots in bombers and GA go there, players like them too since they are bomber/GA buffets.  So, a fighter can counter-GA/Bmb and cap the zone.   I chose bomber because, while less sneaky, less fun, and less mean to the other team, it's probably best.


 

I like bombers for flipping most things.  They can get a command center or military base.  They are also good for garrisons and airfields because they can tailgun a defense bot or two to death while reloading bombs.


 

I also like fighters for flipping most things.  On a command center or missile base, it may require flying out and waiting for respawn, if it's only defense bots present and not at all captured, so I selected bomber as best for that.


 

I would say GA and bomber could be interchangeable, but to me bombers are fast GA.

 

Missile Bases are best capped by GAAs. There simply aren't enough big area targets to make them easy bombing caps, plus the Flak is murderous and the heavy ADFs can take potshots at you. There simply aren't enough air targets to get a good air cap and most MRs and HFs are too vulnerable to being taken out by AAA to make it worth the risk.

 

Plants are decent bomb targets but GAAs don't risk FLAK. Plus they have quicker turnaround on bombs AND can pick off other GAAs and the occasional HF as well for faster capping

 

Command Centers are bomber targets simply because you only need one load to flip them. Garrisons, airfields and Airbases are fighter targets because of how many air targets there are and how few you need to kill to flip them


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Mercsn #9 Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:01 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 23 January 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

 

Missile Bases are best capped by GAAs. There simply aren't enough big area targets to make them easy bombing caps, plus the Flak is murderous and the heavy ADFs can take potshots at you. There simply aren't enough air targets to get a good air cap and most MRs and HFs are too vulnerable to being taken out by AAA to make it worth the risk.

 

Plants are decent bomb targets but GAAs don't risk FLAK. Plus they have quicker turnaround on bombs AND can pick off other GAAs and the occasional HF as well for faster capping

 

Command Centers are bomber targets simply because you only need one load to flip them. Garrisons, airfields and Airbases are fighter targets because of how many air targets there are and how few you need to kill to flip them

 

Flak usually doesn't bother my bombers.

And...AA isn't as painful. 

:hiding:

 


 

Oh, and my bombers pick off...well, everything at some point.

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SpiritFoxMY #10 Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:28 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 24 January 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

 

Flak usually doesn't bother my bombers.

And...AA isn't as painful. 

:hiding:

 


 

Oh, and my bombers pick off...well, everything at some point.

:izmena::playing::trollface:


 

If you're doing it the way WG wants you to do it, you're probably doing it wrong.

:honoring:

 

One or two passes is fine but the damage builds up over time. Missile bases are the worst offenders because its just one huge complex in the middle and four smaller ones surrounded by 6-8 FLAK enplacements which means more runs and thus more exposure to Flak which tgey have the highest density of. I die over Missile Bases the most in my bomber.

 

Bombing flak positions is a waste of time in the Do217M. Its One Big Bomb drop is less efficient in killing Flak  than the clusters in the 17Z and 88A

 

None of your low level crap :p I hate the A26 and Blenheim and you'll never catch me below 3k in a bomber :p


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HoIo #11 Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:48 AM

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Mercsn kinda gets it lol.

 

I'm of the minority when it comes to these things. And this is more because we don't know the circumstances. So I'll try my best to elaborate my votes:

 

Best plane to flip a mining plant solo?

 Multi-role

 

When it comes to this, two certain factors come to mind when deciding if I want to say GAA or Multi-role. 

1) Are there enemy GAAs (probably the answer is yes)?

2) Are you flying a MR that is anything other than the Russian Yaks (also probably yes)

 

Multirole fighters are capable of slowing down and sitting behind a GA to melt their HP, while a HF would have to do multiple passes. You're also beefier than light fighters, so you're not a liability to flipping the mining plant. Additionally, you have ordinances. Follow the carpet bombing path the GAAs took, and clean up the targets they didn't get. Or just take out the GAAs themselves if you've got enough of them. Either way, you have the most potential here, because not only will you flip the plant, but you're not just stuck to ground bombing duty like a GAA would be. You can climb and fight. 

 

Best plane to flip a Garrison solo?

 Heavy Fighter

 

Once again, there are a few determining factors here that would change my answer between a HF and a bomber:

1) There are enemy fighters (or not)

2) You're a good HF pilot (meaning you can BnZ in one or two passes on one target)

 

The heavy fighter is fast, and it can take high altitudes, which is the worst idea to do in a garrison, but you have the HP for it. You gun down the enemy fighters in the sky or you drop your ordinances first. Either way, a heavy fighter is probably the best craft to fly when wanting to flip a garrison. Both because you want to tank the AA, but also because most maps position garrisons to the sides, so you can fly over grab it, and come right back to the middle of the action.

 

But if you can't fly heavy fighters too well, then bombers are the best bet here.

 

Best plane to flip an airfield (no repair/with repair) solo?

 Light Fighters

 

This will probably have the most agreement on, since airfields have a heavy number of aircrafts to take down. The only trick here is to take them down before they whittle your HP to 0.

 

Best plane to flip a military base solo?

 Any

 

This one depends entirely on your abilities as a pilot. Can you path the most efficiently as a GAA? Can you path as a bomber? Are you able to outturn the heavy fighters ADFs? Are you confident in your TnB abilities? All of them work, but all of them could fail. Largely because most players will zerg this cap, so you won't ever really find a point where you're "solo" flipping.

 

Best plane to flip a command center solo?

 GAA

 

 This is the only one I'd say a GAA can flip solo. There are only four light ADF, and you can fly low. There are no problems, and if you can grab it on a flip, you turn the tide of the battle almost instantly with a new wave of bombers flying in for your team.

 

 

 

Hope this helped some :great:


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Wombatmetal #12 Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:46 AM

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I think the answer is clearly GA and Bombers, and GA more so the higher tier you go. A good GA pilot can flip a mine solo as fast as 35 seconds at tier 8 

pyantoryng #13 Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:44 AM

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View PostHoIo, on 24 January 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

[snip]

 

Non-US Multiroles usually carry minimal ordnance consisting of 2 bombs and maybe a few rockets not to mention some outliers that only use the multirole label as permits to mount outlandish weapons. They are not going to take a plant on their own without the enemy cooperating. And in that case so can any fighter, light or heavy. The low tier GAAs don't have the firepower to take out a plant on their lonesome (unless we're talking about using the one cheat option that is only available to [some] old player which allows any USSR GAA to literally cook any base alive), but from tier 7 on they can do so easily.

 

Garrison has low point requirement and enough fighters to destroy to capture it in one go in any fighters. GAA performs okay too, but bombers will run into a snag as there are only two hard targets (30pts each) and thus a lot has to be destroyed to fully capture without descending to destroy defense planes, while having to endure high altitude AA fire that they can scarcely destroy promptly, and 120 points is almost certain to take more than one load of bomb.

 

When an airstrip is red, there won't be enough targets to capture it in one go and there is absolutely no hard target that worth many points. At least one defense plane will have to be destroyed, so using fighters here is a better idea...of course, bombers can take its leisure time to bomb targets down one by one from relative safety...just go higher for airbase as there are heavy defense plane. Airbase has one hard target but also higher point requirement as well so it's still a good place to use fighter on.

 

There are few defense planes in a military base so a lot of points has to come from the ground. Bombers will have a hard time with large number of AA and cannot swat them away quickly and efficiently whether low or high, so GAA would perform better in one.

 

Four planes are barely enough for a white command center, but when it turns red something has to come from ground or the attack has to be made in two times. GAA doesn't care for any of that as they chew through the plentiful hard targets the command center has...bombers also do well in some maps with many buildings packed close together being prime target for cluster of bombs.

 

Although, in practice things won't go so rigidly...a fighter might find itself capturing a mining plant on its own because there were enough enemies to assassinate, or a GAA can fly in and steal the last chunk of points for airstrip capture...


Edited by pyantoryng, 24 January 2018 - 10:44 AM.


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vcharng #14 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:54 AM

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Since the OP asked "solo", all my answers are based on the assumption of having no enemy and no ally aircraft involved.

 

Mining plant

bomber, probably b/c I don't play Soviet GAA, and most German ones have trouble with armored targets. A Do 217M can take a plant with one reload (60 sec), while a P.1102 B/ Me 265 (my best performing GAAs) will probably need two (120/100 sec, respectively). And this is not a tier problem, as the HP of ground targets in games of different tiers are adjusted to fit the firepower of their respective tiers.

 

garrison

an agile MR or a firepower-focused LF. You don't need to turn like a Zero to flght ADAs, but you do need some firepower and overheat time to clear them quickly. You will also need some robustness as you WILL get hit a bit.

 

Any variant of airfield

LF, these are the two sectors most inclined to aerial fighting, so of course it's going to be a LF's game.

 

Military base

this is interesting, with only two HF ADAs (I didn't mistake on that, did I?) it's gonna be one of the land sweepers.

 

CC

AFAIK it is still possible to flip this with purely air kills, but taking out a set of AA gun will make it easier, so my money is on the MRs.



poisonousblood #15 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:30 PM

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tier 6 german bomber can flip an uncaptured mining plant with just 8 bombs in one reload. Bombers are the best and the fastest to flip any bases available

trikke #16 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:46 PM

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View Postnwlxn12, on 23 January 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

Making my first poll.

Just curious what opinions are about which planes you think are best at flipping zones if you were doing it without help.  Depending on what plane you are flying, some zones are easier to flip than others.

 

excellent poll...  and lots of great information here, as a result

 

edit:   frankly, i could see this thread getting pinned, and moved to the Newcomers forum!


Edited by trikke, 24 January 2018 - 04:54 PM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

pyantoryng #17 Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:38 PM

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I've found out during my token run (10 targets in 1 sortie) with IL-2(mod) today that the entire airfield has only 110 points worth of targets, therefore it is impossible to take it via ground in one go if it is red. The reason why bomber flights are effective against them, is that the time between attacks is long enough for the targets to respawn.



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