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Killing Yourself Effectively

squall line suicide

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Cenotaph #21 Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:18 PM

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Since the topic is killing yourself...let's not forget the fact that it's in your own best interest to die atleast once per battle.

 

I'd heard rumors that your exp was drastically impacted if you didn't die, and then confirmed it myself...

 

Had a battle, over 15k CP, several medals, and 4 chevrons of mastery... win : 1500ish exp (No deaths)

 

Had several other battles in the same time period... less CP, less mastery, far fewer medals... 1600-1800 exp, win or loss... (Died atleast once)


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Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #22 Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:34 PM

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I almost never zero sortie a game at any tier anymore, and never bother with the self-destruction as by constantly trying to be capping the reds already solve the issue for me.

Likewise, using the exact same gun & pilot setup I'm always doing half or less of the damage other players are doing versus the same target profile so not worrying about the squall is just one less hassle.


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FIight #23 Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:45 PM

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View Postnwlxn12, on 23 January 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Get rid of squall line all together.

Max number of re-spawns = 3

 

 

3 is too much already, maybe 2;

anyway add whatever punishment to those intentional crash,  and

make them pay higher repair bill: 1 respawn repair 1 plane, 2 respawn

repair 4 planes, and more than 2 repair 10 planes. Then no one is going

to do that stupid thing any more. 

Another thinking is  probably more useful: reduction of hp after you respawn,

e.g. -50% hp after you respawn and -75% after second respawn



Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #24 Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:01 PM

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Limiting respawns will just turn 2.0 back into the previous version of the game where the folks who never miss and hit harder with all types of weapons went out of their way to gun down the opposing human players.

This would also favor the folks like Braincage for instance who manage to shoot down two dozen plus planes in a match using just .50 cal machine-guns, making anything your team did absolutely irrelevant*.

 

*(check out his twitch stream for today, the match on Plateau about 3:30 into it.)

 

 

It's already hard enough to keep flying when every time you get near a group of reds they come at you first ahead of friendly bots, or when the AA is targeting you even when you weren't first over a cap area.

Or maybe the game needs to start bleeding folks away again.


"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

 

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''Under control? You're grabbing a f**king bazooka, you dumba**!''


SpiritFoxMY #25 Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:42 PM

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I think its been pointed out 3 respawns is already the practical maximum you're getting; even with an airbase its going to take close to a minute to respawn at that number of deaths. Unless you're being spawn camped, the squall would have already shut things down by respawn no.3 

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Desmios #26 Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:24 AM

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Things are fine, as they are, imho.

 

I've never felt cheated out of a life since I came back to 2.0



MagusGerhardt #27 Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:33 AM

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I just consider this 2.0's equivalent to 1.9's "I'm ahead on Superiority, now fight me in my home base AA or lose".

 

Given a choice between the two, I'll take the pre-Squall line lawn dart over that.  Yeah, it's very meta play, but if there's nothing preventing the enemy team from doing it and it would be advantageous to my team for me to do so...I'm gonna do it.  It's fair as there's nothing preventing players on the enemy team from doing so as well.  This is also the reason I will spare an enemy aircraft for a few seconds so I can down it after the squall line, guaranteeing it won't return.  Bit of a [edited]move, especially if it's a player in the crosshairs, but the meta of that thinking is very solid, especially if the target isn't threatening to do damage to a friendly plane during the delay for squall line to pass.


 

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mullyman #28 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:48 AM

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Yeah I agree with Soylent...why have a game where the best pilots win .....
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Mercsn #29 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:10 AM

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View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 23 January 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

The broken part is the time it takes to re-spawn and get back into the battle.  Longer re-spawn would mean people would think twice about using this 'tactic' or not use it at all.

 

My personal opinion is that there would be better game-play when people learn to kill more and die less... not purposely die to win.

 

Airfields often mitigate the time required to get back into battle.  If you have an airfield and haven't yet died, you are right back in immediately.  Even if you have to fly in from the original spawn point, getting a fresh aircraft puts you on level playing field with red team guys who got killed 10-30 seconds prior to squall.


 

Kill more and die less.  Absolutely.  But, if you've already killed a guy 3 times, why should you now have to fight him with your aircraft wounded and low on health when he has a fresh aircraft?  Another saying you might like is "don't bring a knife to a gunfight.".


 

Dev team didn't fully think through respawns.  I wasn't around when this mode was in testing, but I have ZERO doubts that testers pointed this out to them and were using this "request reinforcement" technique.  The devs let it go as is.  Working as intended (despite what they claim now that they see smart players using this to get around the squall warning and enemy's getting fresh airplanes nonsense).


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Mercsn #30 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:14 AM

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View PostEinssniper, on 23 January 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

 

3 is too much already, maybe 2;

anyway add whatever punishment to those intentional crash,  and

make them pay higher repair bill: 1 respawn repair 1 plane, 2 respawn

repair 4 planes, and more than 2 repair 10 planes. Then no one is going

to do that stupid thing any more.

Another thinking is  probably more useful: reduction of hp after you respawn,

e.g. -50% hp after you respawn and -75% after second respawn

 

The simplest solution is to just randomize squall onset after a certain duration.  For example, it could happen anytime from 4 minutes to 8 minutes into battle.  And, remove the warning.  Also, make repairs more readily available.  That zone should be a hot commodity if squall hits early.

 


 

Make the respawns cost whatever you like.  I'll still do it if it gives me an advantage that helps my team.


 

The 2nd suggestion is just too complicated.  It's interesting, but we see what happens when WG tries to go complex.  The simplest solution is often the best solution.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

SpiritFoxMY #31 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:24 AM

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I still say anyone still flying and not under attack when the squall hits should have their HP fully restored as if receiving a repair from an airbase and give people XP and Credit bonuses for staying alive.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Captain_Rownd #32 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:40 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 24 January 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

I still say anyone still flying and not under attack when the squall hits should have their HP fully restored as if receiving a repair from an airbase and give people XP and Credit bonuses for staying alive.

 

If you want a magic HP recharge I think you should have to do SOMETHING to earn it, like at least have the awareness to crash at the right time and accept the time-out penalty that a respawn involves.  Let's call it "landing for repairs".  If you have died less then your time-out penalty is shorter, so dying less is rewarded.  Sure, it is a meta thing to do, but it is not the kind of meta that breaks the game.  it takes some awareness and isn't any more silly than recharging your HP while flying circles over the airbase. 

Edited by Captain_Rownd, 24 January 2018 - 04:40 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #33 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:28 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 24 January 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

 

If you want a magic HP recharge I think you should have to do SOMETHING to earn it, like at least have the awareness to crash at the right time and accept the time-out penalty that a respawn involves.  Let's call it "landing for repairs".  If you have died less then your time-out penalty is shorter, so dying less is rewarded.  Sure, it is a meta thing to do, but it is not the kind of meta that breaks the game.  it takes some awareness and isn't any more silly than recharging your HP while flying circles over the airbase. 

 

It takes zero awareness to deliberately kill yourself when the squall warning hits and it penalizes the high fliers who can't kill themselves fast enough.

 

There's no skill here - just pride in flying well enough to not [edited]die. And the system as is punishes those of use too proud to derp into the ground when the artificial OVERTIME horn sounds.

 

I personally don't care one way or another - I refuse to lawndart at any price though if there's a convenient GAA or HF I can kamikaze into I will.


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Hurk #34 Posted 24 January 2018 - 07:38 AM

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View PostEinssniper, on 23 January 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

3 is too much already, maybe 2;

anyway add whatever punishment to those intentional crash,  and

make them pay higher repair bill: 1 respawn repair 1 plane, 2 respawn

repair 4 planes, and more than 2 repair 10 planes. Then no one is going

to do that stupid thing any more. 

Another thinking is  probably more useful: reduction of hp after you respawn,

e.g. -50% hp after you respawn and -75% after second respawn

only if they fix all the client crash bugs and spawning inside/next to a mountain crap first.


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vcharng #35 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:51 PM

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I sincerely disagree with the random squall as this will mean letting the squall timing to decide which side wins as well. It could hit at a time when one side is having advantage.

limiting respawns to 2 could be workable, but i think it could also mark the end of GAAs as we can just kill them twice in a quick succession and they won't do anything risky anymore.

Why do people suicide? because they can have a new plane, now all we need to do is to remove that. Reward flying players with an extra life at squall and none for those respawning, it's the easiest way out.

 

And even before that happens I only suicide in GAAs, as they need a new plane after squall too much. Suicide in a bomber is a total waste of time (the suicide takes about 20 sec by itself, probably 10~20 for respawn, and a whole minute for climbing back to combat altitude, not worth it at all.

 

I do agree with buffing repairs, esp. for the bombers as they are practically left out from the repair mechanism (they fly 4x the maximum repair altitude)



trikke #36 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:32 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 23 January 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

The simplest solution is to just randomize squall onset after a certain duration.  For example, it could happen anytime from 4 minutes to 8 minutes into battle.  And, remove the warning

Also, make repairs more readily available.  That zone should be a hot commodity if squall hits early.

 

Make the respawns cost whatever you like.  I'll still do it if it gives me an advantage that helps my team.

 

The 2nd suggestion is just too complicated.  It's interesting, but we see what happens when WG tries to go complex.  The simplest solution is often the best solution.

 

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MagusGerhardt #37 Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:30 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 23 January 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

 

The simplest solution is to just randomize squall onset after a certain duration.  For example, it could happen anytime from 4 minutes to 8 minutes into battle.  And, remove the warning.  Also, make repairs more readily available.  That zone should be a hot commodity if squall hits early.

 


 

Make the respawns cost whatever you like.  I'll still do it if it gives me an advantage that helps my team.


 

The 2nd suggestion is just too complicated.  It's interesting, but we see what happens when WG tries to go complex.  The simplest solution is often the best solution.

 

This suggestion sounds good on first read, but is actually full of problems that would only become evident after entering play.

 

Early squall line in a battle would completely disrupt the habits and strategies players have devised thus far.  Removing the warning for its onset would cause more angry posts from players who don't have an issue with it as is now.


 

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MARS_REVENANT #38 Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:06 PM

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View PostMagusGerhardt, on 23 January 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

I just consider this 2.0's equivalent to 1.9's "I'm ahead on Superiority, now fight me in my home base AA or lose".

 

Given a choice between the two, I'll take the pre-Squall line lawn dart over that.  Yeah, it's very meta play, but if there's nothing preventing the enemy team from doing it and it would be advantageous to my team for me to do so...I'm gonna do it.  It's fair as there's nothing preventing players on the enemy team from doing so as well.  This is also the reason I will spare an enemy aircraft for a few seconds so I can down it after the squall line, guaranteeing it won't return.  Bit of a [edited]move, especially if it's a player in the crosshairs, but the meta of that thinking is very solid, especially if the target isn't threatening to do damage to a friendly plane during the delay for squall line to pass.

 

In the 1.9 example the losing team would have to fight an uphill battle in your AA.  In 2.0 everyone essentially gets a new plane by darting right before squall line, so it doesn't really matter who is winning at that point.

 

Darting with no real penalty and getting a new plane is a win/win scenario as you can come back into the battle and have an opportunity to have full effect on the outcome.  I think the incentive for this is mainly for someone on the team that is losing, even though it is possible for both teams to do it.  So basically the current meta encourages someone to re spawn without penalty rather than to stay alive. A longer spawn time would be a disincentive, because a lot can happen in that time.

 

For me it just doesn't feel right.  Even with re-spawns, I think the goal should be to kill more and die less.  That should be the reward/incentive and should affect winning the battle.


Edited by MARS_REVENANT, 24 January 2018 - 08:07 PM.

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Perco_lator #39 Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:34 PM

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EZ fix for this issue would be to force players to re-spawn with the exact same aircraft in the same state & only allow a new aircraft if they are destroyed while engaged in combat.

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Zapperguy #40 Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:10 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 23 January 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

 

The simplest solution is to just randomize squall onset after a certain duration.  For example, it could happen anytime from 4 minutes to 8 minutes into battle.  And, remove the warning.  Also, make repairs more readily available.  That zone should be a hot commodity if squall hits early.

 


 

Make the respawns cost whatever you like.  I'll still do it if it gives me an advantage that helps my team.


 

The 2nd suggestion is just too complicated.  It's interesting, but we see what happens when WG tries to go complex.  The simplest solution is often the best solution.

 

I wanted this back in November http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/50804-randomize-the-squall-poll/, but this new breed of casual, short attention span, participation trophy awardees that WG is trying to attract don't like challenges, learning curves, or penalties for failure.

:facepalm:

 

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