Jump to content


The Four Things That Make Bombers Frustrating To Play In The Current Meta

balance AA HP Bombers

  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

Poll: Issues with Bombers (44 members have cast votes)

High-Altitude AA: OP, UP, or Just Right?

  1. OP (16 votes [36.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.36%

  2. UP (5 votes [11.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.36%

  3. Just Right (20 votes [45.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  4. I don't know (3 votes [6.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

Should information about the exact altitude that your engines struggle to keep above stall speed in anything but a perfectly flat, straight line be added?

  1. Yes (26 votes [59.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 59.09%

  2. No (14 votes [31.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.82%

  3. I don't know (3 votes [6.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  4. I don't understand(ask me if you don't understand this, it is in fact kind of complicated) (1 vote [2.27%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

Should Bomber optimum altitude increase?(thus Bombers can travel a bit faster at a high altitude, where they are generally mostly safe)

  1. yes (17 votes [38.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.64%

  2. no (25 votes [56.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 56.82%

  3. I don't know (2 votes [4.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

Should the skills Weakest Link,(gunner automatically aims for the enemy lowest on health, not worth it's extremely high price) Defensive Fire(doesn't seem to work right) be buffed or removed?

  1. yes (26 votes [59.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 59.09%

  2. no (10 votes [22.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.73%

  3. I don't know (8 votes [18.18%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

Do you use Concealing Liverly on your Bombers?

  1. Yes (27 votes [61.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 61.36%

  2. No (17 votes [38.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.64%

  3. I don't know (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. I don't have any Bombers yet (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

If you answered yes to the last question, do you find it to have a noticeable, major effect?

  1. yes (17 votes [38.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.64%

  2. no (12 votes [27.27%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.27%

  3. I don't know (3 votes [6.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  4. I did not answer yes to the last question (12 votes [27.27%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.27%

Cruise Flight: do you use this skill on any planes you own?

  1. yes (10 votes [22.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.73%

  2. no (33 votes [75.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 75.00%

  3. I don't know (1 vote [2.27%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

If you answered yes to the last question, does Cruise Flight have a noticeable effect/seem to be working correctly?

  1. yes (9 votes [20.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.45%

  2. no (3 votes [6.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  3. I don't know (3 votes [6.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  4. I did not answer yes to the last question (29 votes [65.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 65.91%

Vote Guests cannot vote Hide poll

legoboy0401 #21 Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:53 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 1520 battles
  • 1,559
  • [FK] FK
  • Member since:
    11-30-2013

View PostRico_CotC_, on 23 January 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

Even a crap interceptor pilot.  I mean, it is no work at all to climb up with a Bf-110 and swat bombers out of the sky.  I enjoy it when I pick the -110 and its a map with a command center.  I can just wait outside the defended zone for the bombers to come, then shoot down all five before they reach the middle of the map.  Individual bot or human bombers are hardly more of a challenge.  Even if they have low cover.

 

Have you ever noticed that when someone types "not to be a d-bag, but..." they go right on to be a d-bag?  Unrelated question - is there a function within the forum software to block users?  Asking for a friend.

 

No, sadly, only in-game. As for the interceptor part: BF-109B says "nom nom nom. NEED MORE BOMBERS TO EAT!"

An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris


CorvusCorvax #22 Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:01 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 3981 battles
  • 4,020
  • [OWSS] OWSS
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Postlegoboy0401, on 23 January 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

 

No, sadly, only in-game. As for the interceptor part: BF-109B says "nom nom nom. NEED MORE BOMBERS TO EAT!"

 

And the Spit 5 DB-605.  That thing is pretty good, too.

legoboy0401 #23 Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:11 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 1520 battles
  • 1,559
  • [FK] FK
  • Member since:
    11-30-2013

View PostRico_CotC_, on 23 January 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

 

And the Spit 5 DB-605.  That thing is pretty good, too.

 

Holy moly is it ever! I see SO MANY UNICUMS IN THAT PLANE. ALSO, P-38F AND J EAT BOMBERS FOR BREAKFAST.

An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris


mnbv_fockewulfe #24 Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:44 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 601 battles
  • 3,478
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

View PostRico_CotC_, on 23 January 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

Even a crap interceptor pilot.  I mean, it is no work at all to climb up with a Bf-110 and swat bombers out of the sky.  I enjoy it when I pick the -110 and its a map with a command center.  I can just wait outside the defended zone for the bombers to come, then shoot down all five before they reach the middle of the map.  Individual bot or human bombers are hardly more of a challenge.  Even if they have low cover.

 

Have you ever noticed that when someone types "not to be a d-bag, but..." they go right on to be a d-bag?  Unrelated question - is there a function within the forum software to block users?  Asking for a friend.

 

Go to your profile tab and then go to settings then go to ignore then type in the player's name you want to ignore. Drew can tell all about how to use the ignore function.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


hoom #25 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:21 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 8226 battles
  • 1,642
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

Block Quote

 After reading a reply, hoom's I think, if you're having trouble with the massive amounts of flak at factories, attack them at low altitude.  Factories have zero AA, just Flak. 

 Great point and I feel like a complete [edited]for not realising it before :hiding:

 

Block Quote

 hate to tell you this, but it's usually a waste of my time to bomb Flak. I will do it when there is nothing else to bomb, but I hate doing it in an effort to slow the effects of AA, because they respawn the quickest of any ground target, and within about 90, 100 seconds they are back up again and shooting at me.

 Then don't complain about Flack doing too much damage.

They definitely stay dead for plenty of time when I kill them. I dunno, maybe you're not actually killing them? :unsure:

Its pretty rare in my experience for there to be AA respawning before I've completed a cap, most of the time if it happens its because friendlies are dying too much lower down and you should probably go bomb elsewhere.

 

OR you could choose to avoid the caps with lots of Flack.

If you go storming into a heavy Flack cap, you're not above nor below the Flack and you don't bomb the Flack the problem isn't that Flack is too powerful, its your [edited]weak playstyle, see next quote.

 

Block Quote

 L2P, dude, enough said.

 Uh you're the one complaining & asking for opinions, he gave his quite valid opinion...

 

Block Quote

 MiG line(the Tier VI and VIII suck

 Are you actually saying the I-220 is bad? Are you for real? :amazed: See previous quote...

 

 


Edited by hoom, 24 January 2018 - 11:23 AM.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

vcharng #26 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:39 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 3387 battles
  • 727
  • Member since:
    10-25-2017

High-Altitude AA: OP, UP, or Just Right?

in the context of bombers, I would say just right, but probably not for hi-altitude, slow fighters like some bulkier HFs and LFs.

 

Should information about the exact altitude that your engines struggle to keep above stall speed in anything but a perfectly flat, straight line be added?

I don't understand, probably because my bombers can fly all the way to the hard alt cap where the system forces it into a stall.

 

Should Bomber optimum altitude increase?(thus Bombers can travel a bit faster at a high altitude, where they are generally mostly safe)

I disagree with increasing their opt. altitude as this will make them fly all the way to a place where even HFs can't catch them. However, I DO agree about re-arranging the engine power curve/ speed curve of bombers instead. Bombers should actually be faster at high altitude, not slower, and even if it's not systematically possible, it should at least have a significantly less speed drop for each unit of altitude it gains. They are supposed to fight at high altitude, after all.

 

Should the skills Weakest Link,(gunner automatically aims for the enemy lowest on health, not worth it's extremely high price) Defensive Fire(doesn't seem to work right) be buffed or removed?

I didn't have WL, but my DF seems to be working alright. I use it for almost any plane with a turret.

 

Concealment livery

I never dared to remove it from my bomber, so I can't tell the difference. I do know, however, that flying with it at red alt would mean that those AAs can hardly damage you, and you will always be able to recover enough to survive another pass or two from minimum HP.

 

Cruise flight

I have no intention of turning my bomber into an AWACS (+20% view range or something). I'd love to turn it into a B-2 (actually effective camouflage and the like) if possible, though. If your intention of using cruise flight is the 5% engine power, I'd rather tell WG to allow bombers to use engine coolants.

 



Mercsn #27 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:23 PM

    Captain

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 2601 battles
  • 3,293
  • [A-S-S] A-S-S
  • Member since:
    04-17-2013

Last night, I flew the Ju88a for about an hour game time, call it 7 or 8 matches (I wasn't counting and didn't know the time until I checked my profile afterwards)..  My Ju88 wasn't maxed out and is still missing the top engine upgrade.  I didn't want to free xp through any of it to get an "honest" take on jumping into the aircraft.   My first match gave me my first ever "killed 15 ground targets in a single sortie" Lang medal.  Over the hour I was killed exactly twice in the Ju88a (and once in the single mission I did in the Do17 bomber).  So, I had 3 deaths in over an hour of flight time.


 

In the Ju88a, one death was from a bf110b human who finally, at the match end got tired of me flipping zones. He killed me right after I flipped a zone.  We were in squall, but both teams were evenly matched with remaining aircraft and we had a large score lead.  Since the zone was locked, my death didn't even help red team.  The second death, I forget exactly what got me, but it could have been avoided.  Blue team had a large lead and I was "testing" the survivability and rear gun power vs whatever fighter it was.  I had actually left the zone I was in when I saw the 2 red arrows angling for me and had plenty of room and boost to kite them. I decided instead to see if the little mg could do decent damage.  It turned out that survivability wasn't great and neither was the mg damage (I think it was the first level of lower gun as it was one of the first missions).  Again, this death was avoidable and I chose to engage them.


 

The death in the Do17, I don't recall, but I was seriously messing around with this aircraft.  I had 2 aerial bombings of Red Team bot bombers, one of which finished capturing a missile base for a superiority cap.  I was also dogfighting with it, getting into range of fighters (since the match was won) and switching into the "turret".  So, I'm sure I got punished for being silly and it was something that could have been avoided had the match not gone to superiority and I was playing "for real".


 

So, that's it.  I had exactly three deaths in a bit over an hour of match time.  The Do17 was fully upgraded and the Ju88a was not.  Santa or Albion had delivered a couple 3 skill crews though, so I did have either range or crit on both gunners.  I never died to flak, nor took much damage and had attacked every zone type except mines, refinery, or depot which didn't show up.   I flew all missions in this period as high altitude style.


 

There were only a total of 5 players that came after me.  An fw57 player tried to chase the Do17, but got picked off by fighters as he made his way to me.  There was the Bf110b that finally caught up to the Ju88a (I was mainly flying to exterior zones to avoid the air fight).   In another match, a P-51a followed me for a while, trying to climb up after me.  He gave up and went after ai bombers instead.  I cleaned up their leftovers and capped the zone.  This same match also had an Se100 case follow me for a while, but again, he didn't have the altitude to reach me.  We had the game won, so I dove down on him to see if my gunners were awake and find out if he had enough altitude band to maneuver for a shot with his 20mm nose guns.  The game ended before I could find out.


 

That's it.  That was the extend of players coming after me in over an hour of gameplay.  If I got wrecked by players in the next hour, every match, that would just balance things out.  I didn't have a problem with flak...then again, I bomb them first, flight path permitting.


 

Regarding flight levels, I had no issue maintaining level flight anywhere from 2000-3500m which is where I was operating.  I usually used flat, yaw turns for return passes, although I either noticed or imagined that it swung around even faster if I dropped flaps, hit the brakes and yawed with a bit of roll and descent, boosting about halfway through the U-turn and then applying pitch up key in addition to the other controls mentioned.  This thing (Ju88) turns on a dime at altitude.


 

All in all, it was fairly relaxing.  Every match had at least 4, usually 5 humans per team.


 

Lego, the reason I don't like bombers is because I abuse the heck out of them, not because my "beaufighter can't reach them".    When I get around to processing the vids, I'll piece together a highlight real including 2 aerial bombings of "player bot" bombers, "dogfighting" a do17 bomber in my Ju88 (letting my nose gun tickle it to death), a ram kill on a bot bomber in the Ju88, and whatever other interesting things I'm not supposed to do in a bomber that I can find in the vids.


 

Oh, and FYI, I do understand which planes are good for altitude and energy fighting and the basics of such.  I submit this screenshot of my newly re-acquired Bf-110b with its carry over from Beta markings when the game had already transitioned into a BnZ/energy meta and there were no bots to farm kills from and no respawn if you messed up.  Those 4 marks are over 200 players that fell prey to me in yet another abusive aircraft (abusing speed, altitude and 20mm).  So, yes. I do know which planes can catch a bomber.  Again, my issue with bombers is not that I can't get them, if I choose to fly for bomber hunting; it's that bombers are very easy to abuse and very difficult to counter unless a player takes specific aim, before a match starts, to do so (provided there's no airbase available).


 

Spoiler


 


Edited by Mercsn, 24 January 2018 - 01:30 PM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

trikke #28 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:09 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 3379 battles
  • 3,295
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostExploratorOne, on 23 January 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

The Blenheim IV at T3 works very well at 50m-100m.  My bombs are reloaded by the time I turn around after a pass.  I prefer to run all of my bombers low level and only go high when there are enemy human pilots that know what they are doing and interfere with my low level plans.

 

Toggle and I flew our blennies low for the first time in a flight yesterday, and we did 'reasonably' well

 

however, we lost, battle after battle, but we did learn what not to do, and that would be going down low in a fragile T3 bomber, so we went higher tiers in our other bombers 

 

it was fun!    but we finally switched to other planes, just to staunch the red flow of losses

 

 


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

mnbv_fockewulfe #29 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:11 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 601 battles
  • 3,478
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013
If it's one thing that needs to go it's flat yaw turns. :angry:

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


LMG #30 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:21 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2436 battles
  • 1,937
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 24 January 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

If it's one thing that needs to go it's flat yaw turns. :angry:

 

What's wrong with Yaw turns? :unsure:
This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

vcharng #31 Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:05 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 3387 battles
  • 727
  • Member since:
    10-25-2017

View PostLMG, on 24 January 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

 

What's wrong with Yaw turns? :unsure:

 

probably realism, turning without banking is next to impossible IRL.

Moggytwo #32 Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:22 AM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 931 battles
  • 27
  • Member since:
    08-15-2017

View PostExploratorOne, on 23 January 2018 - 04:31 PM, said:

The Blenheim IV at T3 works very well at 50m-100m.  My bombs are reloaded by the time I turn around after a pass.  I prefer to run all of my bombers low level and only go high when there are enemy human pilots that know what they are doing and interfere with my low level plans.

 

It's too squishy to be properly successful at low level.

 

 

 

View Postvcharng, on 25 January 2018 - 03:05 AM, said:

 

probably realism, turning without banking is next to impossible IRL.

 

It's not impossible, it's just inefficient and feels unpleasant.



Unraveler #33 Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:57 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 967 battles
  • 58
  • Member since:
    08-31-2013

View PostLMG, on 25 January 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

What's wrong with Yaw turns? :unsure:

 

Mine? Mine are fine. How about yaws?

mnbv_fockewulfe #34 Posted 25 January 2018 - 04:03 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 601 battles
  • 3,478
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

View PostLMG, on 24 January 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

 

What's wrong with Yaw turns? :unsure:

 

Unrealistic, and I have never once needed to utilize such a mechanic in aerial combat.

They'd be better off making it so that too much yaw causes a side slip, but doesn't induce a roll (a la Flight Simulator X).

Providing better headon shots for joystick users and the defensive maneuver known as the "skid".


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


LMG #35 Posted 25 January 2018 - 04:14 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2436 battles
  • 1,937
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

Well, they do help me keep up when my wing gets busted. Sadly I can't do the same with pitch when my tail gets shot off :(


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

mnbv_fockewulfe #36 Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:13 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 601 battles
  • 3,478
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

View PostLMG, on 25 January 2018 - 04:14 AM, said:

Well, they do help me keep up when my wing gets busted. Sadly I can't do the same with pitch when my tail gets shot off :(

 

That's called thrust vectoring sonny.:B

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


vcharng #37 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:05 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 3387 battles
  • 727
  • Member since:
    10-25-2017

View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 25 January 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

 

That's called thrust vectoring sonny.:B

 

and PCA (propulsion controlled aircraft), which is a 21st century technology, only mature after the 2003 DHL incident in Iraq.

Malefleur #38 Posted 28 June 2018 - 11:40 PM

    Airman Basic

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 2743 battles
  • 3
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
After the 2.0.5 patch. Bomber playing was impossible. Flacks take 1/2 of life in a pass over the target. In the second you die. It makes no difference if you make a bomber in low, medium or high altitude! Now I just die for flack. Fighters do not knock me down at the bomber's maximum operational altitude!

Prenzlau #39 Posted 29 June 2018 - 03:14 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10765 battles
  • 1,058
  • [OWSS] OWSS
  • Member since:
    12-14-2015

Just because someone owns a bomber does not mean they are any good at piloting a bomber. I'm sorry if that is a crass statement, but I see too many people blaming the game for their own lack of skill and experience. 

 

Prenzlau


 

 

 

 


MagusGerhardt #40 Posted 29 June 2018 - 04:06 AM

    Horten Test Pilot

  • -Community Ace-
  • 737 battles
  • 5,547
  • [DRACS] DRACS
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

If only a handful of people are able to successfully pilot an aircraft in a game the fault lies with the game design and the balancing of the aircraft in question.

 

Especially if said disparity occurs after major mechanical changes to said game and said aircraft.


 

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787






Also tagged with balance, AA, HP, Bombers

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users