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F-86 and Project GunVal


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StoptheViolins #1 Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:04 PM

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In the middle of the Korean war fighter pilots complained that the Mig 15 could survive most 50cal rounds and suggested that bigger guns were needed. So two handfuls of F-86-F were pulled off the line and equipped with 4 20mm cannon.  After realizing what the Russians found out - gun gases cause flame outs - the US redesigned how and where gun exhaust went to end up with combat viable 20mm equipped fighters.

 

A rough approximation of the story.  Anyways since WG likes obscure birds and variants why not give us the 4x20mm gunned F-86?  Why make us suffer with BB guns especially at T10?



SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 16 January 2018 - 11:41 PM

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I've wondered the same thing a long time tbh. 6x.50 at tier 10 seems unnecessarily punishing

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FIight #3 Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:25 AM

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good idea, what about upgrading F-86 to the gun version and give me-1101 the powerful BMW-018 engine?

pyantoryng #4 Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:12 AM

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T-160 guns can be tier 10 version of Pancake M39 (as little sense as that makes)...or it could become the other way around...

 

...the problem is, it will ruin the charade[theme] that WG wants to keep up - the North American line as the light plane with non-heating weapons that are 50cals...it worked in 1.9, but not in 2.0...



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SpiritFoxMY #5 Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:42 AM

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To be fair, any pilot that's gone All-American fighters is probably hopelessly unprepared to use cannons. My cousin complains about overheating guns all the time when flying non-Americans and I'm like - dude. You're firing 20s. As far as I'm concerned they're practically MGs!

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FIight #6 Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:06 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 16 January 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

T-160 guns can be tier 10 version of Pancake M39 (as little sense as that makes)...or it could become the other way around...

 

...the problem is, it will ruin the charade[theme] that WG wants to keep up - the North American line as the light plane with non-heating weapons that are 50cals...it worked in 1.9, but not in 2.0...

 

I think they can provide an option to either install MGs or 20mm cannons on Sabre, while keeping all other stats the same. 

That will maintain the uniformity of non-heating .50 cal across the line, meanwhile allowing players to try new weapons.

 

btw, don't forget to buff me-1101 after that.


Edited by Einssniper, 17 January 2018 - 07:07 AM.


KloudRains #7 Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:51 PM

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The F-86 H version, the one with 20mm guns, was designed and produced with the main objective to be ground attack improvements. It had considerable maneuver differences. Nonetheless it still was a remarkable plane, loved by all. Close to 500 were produced. F-86H was overshadowed by the F-100 which came into service with much calendar overlap. The guns were four M39 revolver-cannons. I believe it had 150 rounds per gun albeit, some reports say it had 200. It came into service in 1955, well after the Korean War and therefore may categorically not fit the time span of WoWP planes

I flew about 5 years with this same gun configuration in the F-100C/D and F. It was a marvelous gun. Very reliable and each had 1200 rounds per minute rate of fire. Our M39s had 200 rounds per gun. The effective rate of 4800 rounds per minute was marvelous in use. Many, many thousands of rounds were fired by F-100Ds during the Vietnam War.

The Massachusetts Air Guard was using this plane during  joint flying projects as late as 1969 with my squadron, in the 49th TFW. We had the F-4D using the SUU-16 gun pod. This was a clumsy application of the M-61 Gatling. Their F-86Hs were superb.



Zergling #8 Posted 18 January 2018 - 12:11 AM

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There's a whole heap of potential gun upgrades that could be given to American high tiers.

 

Eg, the USAAF/USAF was messing around with 15mm caliber for a fair while, mostly with copies of the German 15mm MG151, but even one of the prototypes of the M61 Vulcan was chambered in 15mm (others in 20mm and 27mm, with the 20mm being chosen for the final version).

 

The US Navy stuck with the 20mm M3 until they adopted the improved Colt Mk 12, but it is possible they had some experimental gun developments going on too.

 

 

View PostKloudRains, on 18 January 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

The F-86 H version, the one with 20mm guns, was designed and produced with the main objective to be ground attack improvements. It had considerable maneuver differences. Nonetheless it still was a remarkable plane, loved by all. Close to 500 were produced. F-86H was overshadowed by the F-100 which came into service with much calendar overlap. The guns were four M39 revolver-cannons. I believe it had 150 rounds per gun albeit, some reports say it had 200. It came into service in 1955, well after the Korean War and therefore may categorically not fit the time span of WoWP planes

I flew about 5 years with this same gun configuration in the F-100C/D and F. It was a marvelous gun. Very reliable and each had 1200 rounds per minute rate of fire. Our M39s had 200 rounds per gun. The effective rate of 4800 rounds per minute was marvelous in use. Many, many thousands of rounds were fired by F-100Ds during the Vietnam War.

The Massachusetts Air Guard was using this plane during  joint flying projects as late as 1969 with my squadron, in the 49th TFW. We had the F-4D using the SUU-16 gun pod. This was a clumsy application of the M-61 Gatling. Their F-86Hs were superb.

 

According to sources online, the M39 had a 1500 RPM rate of fire.






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