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Gary_62 #61 Posted 17 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

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Once apon a time this game did not have re spawn and when you got rammed that was it for that match. You could ether watch others play or get in another match. People complained made suggestions. But WG would say that they would not change the ram mechanics and as far as I know they haven't . I got used to it even though I didn't like it. I even learned to ram my self.  You have choices  #1 You can get used to it like I did .  #2  You can quit and go to another game.  #3  You can keep posting complaints that will only go around in circles like a dog chasing its tail !                            " If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".     Neil Peart. of Rush  from the song. Free will. From the album Permanent Waves.
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Bubba_Zanetti #62 Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

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View PostGary_62, on 17 January 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

Once apon a time this game did not have re spawn and when you got rammed that was it for that match. You could ether watch others play or get in another match. People complained made suggestions. But WG would say that they would not change the ram mechanics and as far as I know they haven't . I got used to it even though I didn't like it. I even learned to ram my self.  You have choices  #1 You can get used to it like I did .  #2  You can quit and go to another game.  #3  You can keep posting complaints that will only go around in circles like a dog chasing its tail !                            " If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".     Neil Peart. of Rush  from the song. Free will. From the album Permanent Waves.

 

You need to post the video since we have many Rush fans on this forum:


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CorvusCorvax #63 Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:12 PM

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Avoiding head-to-head confrontations with bots or humans is easy.  You can avoid ramming altogether if you have your wits about you.  Incidental contact with target-focused teammates is another issue entirely.  I've had human teammates in faster aircraft crawl up on my and actually splash my aircraft due to accidental contact while going after the same target.  This actually happens often enough that I need to keep track of my human teammates on the radar.  It happens more on the seal-clubbing tires than higher up - i have had my low-HP Russian kites splashed by contact with team heavy fighters more often than by enemy gunfire.  I-5s and I-15s are incredibly delicate.  :)

CorvusCorvax #64 Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:15 PM

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View PostBubba_Zanetti, on 17 January 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

 

You need to post the video since we have many Rush fans on this forum:

*raises hand*  The stuff in the late 70s to the mid 80s is my favorite.  A big skip on the stuff from John Rutsley's time with the band.  I prefer Peart's influences.



Captain_Rownd #65 Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:03 PM

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View Post__ThisMachine__, on 17 January 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

 

mmm, still here, a bit surprised. im seeing more of the old player based over in the competing game now.

 

There was no old player base. 

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CruzANDBruz #66 Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:15 PM

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I find avoiding a head-on from a bot nearly impossible too. By the time the tiny image of their plane is visible enough to discern whether I'm looking at the front or rear I sometimes have about a second to take action before impact. I like the way bots can spin a heavy defense fighter around on a dime and come at you too. 



Wombatmetal #67 Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:47 PM

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View PostCruzANDBruz, on 17 January 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

I find avoiding a head-on from a bot nearly impossible too. By the time the tiny image of their plane is visible enough to discern whether I'm looking at the front or rear I sometimes have about a second to take action before impact. I like the way bots can spin a heavy defense fighter around on a dime and come at you too. 

 

A plane coming head on us vulnerable. With bots I do an Immelman and come down on its tail.A second is all you need. 

Perco_lator #68 Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:58 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 17 January 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

There was no old player base. 

 

How would you know? You didn't play previous to 2.0, you know those are mostly bots you're playing against right?

Captain_Rownd #69 Posted 17 January 2018 - 10:05 PM

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View PostPerco_lator, on 17 January 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

 

How would you know? You didn't play previous to 2.0, you know those are mostly bots you're playing against right?

 

Been playing Warships and Tanks for years and heard endlessly how Warplanes was a wasteland.  :D  The bots are yummy, thanks. 

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trikke #70 Posted 18 January 2018 - 02:09 AM

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View PostMoggytwo, on 17 January 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

Where I have a problem is with friendly rams. I think it should be similar to WoWS where friendly collisions incur negligible damage to both parties.
I honestly can't see what being wiped out by a friendly bot adds to the game.

 

as much as it 'ruins the immersion'...   i see the point

 

i've always wonder why one title decides one consequence, and a diff one from the same family decides another 


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Capt_Fugly #71 Posted 18 January 2018 - 07:08 AM

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ROFL @ the 'experts' assuming it's my fault for being rammed... Occasionally I screw up the timing and get clipped, but that's not what I'm talking about. I like the clipping system, it seems logical and lets you know you've screwed up while giving you the chance to continue playing. What I'm talking about is the (mostly) P38 and bf/me110 players who turn into you when you break off, sometimes not even bothering to shoot because they're so intent on ramming you. Roll-out, corkscrew down and they'll deliberately turn into you and *splat*, back the the respawn screen. As for the "don't get into a head to head situation" baloney, when someone turns into you, or comes screaming out of the heavens full tilt while you're in a turning fight with someone else there's not much you can do except get out of their way IF you even see them coming. I try, and they deliberately go for the ram; not always, and not everyone, but enough for me to decide to come here and start a thread. So instead of just "learn to duck", " it's your fault for letting them ram you" etc etc, how about you give me some constructive criticism on my suggestion (although, looking at the replies it's pretty apparent some of you didn't even bother reading it through before going "not another ram thread, ffs" and proceeding to "bleh, whiney noob, live with it, learn to play, you suck, blahblahblah" .

 

The mechanic is stupid, and is being abused. It's currently better than the old "fart near someone and you both die" garbage, but it's a game, it doesn't need to be set in stone because they changed things once. What I suggested is a logical modification to the current system, keeps the spirit of the original changes while improving the playability of the game. I understand the points about HF being unpopular, and I think that could be fixed by simply increasing the boost time by 50% (needs testing, obv; but hey, that's what the test server is for...) and maybe increasing their baseline speed by 10 - 15% so they can shoot and scoot successfully. I think the current ramming attitude is A) because they can get away with it, and B) because they know if they don't I'm going to be on their tail and (usually) blowing them apart with cannons before they can get back out of range.

 

So, to recap:

LF vs LF - 'Hard' contact (fuselage to fuselage) both die; 'Soft' contact (wings, tail, etc) as per current algorithm. Realistic, logical.
LF vs Attack - As per current algorithm. Realistic, logical (especially against a russian IL series, lol. Ram a tank you gonna die, no mater what you're in...)
LF vs HF - 'Hard' LF dies, HF takes 75% of max health damage; 'Soft' as per current algorithm. (Means 2 rams, irrespective of LF health, will kill the HF. Again, logical, realistic; they might survive one, but 2x 400+km/h collisions? No chance!)
LF vs Bomber - Same as LF vs HF. (Not quite realistic, but you can't go too realistic with bombers or no-one would play them. I think this is a decent compromise?)
Also: Increase HF boost time by 50% (needs testing, might need to be higher %) so they can still make hit and run passes and get away before someone with cannons gets on their tail and guns them down. Perhaps increase their (HF) baseline speed by 10 - 15% as well. It's a small change, but would (I think) improve the game. Increasing the speed means catching HFs would be something for the interceptors (some LF and other HF), but honestly, if you're in a multirole what are you doing chasing a heavy anyway? You should be strafing soft targets to help the cap.

 

Instead of just attacking me, how about some talk about what you think of my suggestion? 0.o \o/


Edited by Capt_Fugly, 18 January 2018 - 07:21 AM.


Capt_Fugly #72 Posted 18 January 2018 - 07:26 AM

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View PostBubba_Zanetti, on 16 January 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

 

 

FFS noobs...we had the mechanic where both parties died from collisions.  We had damage from falling debris.  It resulted in 5hp light fighters taking out full health GA.  Much whining and biotching resulted in the current ramming mechanic...

Search the F’n forum for ramming and get a clue and STOP posting ramming topics!

 

/rant 

 

The mechanic is stupid, and is being abused, so No, I'll have my 2cents worth, thanks muchly. How about you actually READ what I wrote, give me some criticism (in your infintie wisdom, oh mighty one) on my suggestion, instead of just flying off on a tangent. I KNOW what we have is better that before, but I think it could be tweaked and made better, so I stuck my hand up and said something.

Wombatmetal #73 Posted 18 January 2018 - 07:55 AM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 17 January 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

ROFL @ the 'experts' assuming it's my fault for being rammed... Occasionally I screw up the timing and get clipped, but that's not what I'm talking about. I like the clipping system, it seems logical and lets you know you've screwed up while giving you the chance to continue playing. What I'm talking about is the (mostly) P38 and bf/me110 players who turn into you when you break off, sometimes not even bothering to shoot because they're so intent on ramming you. Roll-out, corkscrew down and they'll deliberately turn into you and *splat*, back the the respawn screen. As for the "don't get into a head to head situation" baloney, when someone turns into you, or comes screaming out of the heavens full tilt while you're in a turning fight with someone else there's not much you can do except get out of their way IF you even see them coming. I try, and they deliberately go for the ram; not always, and not everyone, but enough for me to decide to come here and start a thread. So instead of just "learn to duck", " it's your fault for letting them ram you" etc etc, how about you give me some constructive criticism on my suggestion (although, looking at the replies it's pretty apparent some of you didn't even bother reading it through before going "not another ram thread, ffs" and proceeding to "bleh, whiney noob, live with it, learn to play, you suck, blahblahblah" .

 

The mechanic is stupid, and is being abused. It's currently better than the old "fart near someone and you both die" garbage, but it's a game, it doesn't need to be set in stone because they changed things once. What I suggested is a logical modification to the current system, keeps the spirit of the original changes while improving the playability of the game. I understand the points about HF being unpopular, and I think that could be fixed by simply increasing the boost time by 50% (needs testing, obv; but hey, that's what the test server is for...) and maybe increasing their baseline speed by 10 - 15% so they can shoot and scoot successfully. I think the current ramming attitude is A) because they can get away with it, and B) because they know if they don't I'm going to be on their tail and (usually) blowing them apart with cannons before they can get back out of range.

 

So, to recap:

LF vs LF - 'Hard' contact (fuselage to fuselage) both die; 'Soft' contact (wings, tail, etc) as per current algorithm. Realistic, logical.
LF vs Attack - As per current algorithm. Realistic, logical (especially against a russian IL series, lol. Ram a tank you gonna die, no mater what you're in...)
LF vs HF - 'Hard' LF dies, HF takes 75% of max health damage; 'Soft' as per current algorithm. (Means 2 rams, irrespective of LF health, will kill the HF. Again, logical, realistic; they might survive one, but 2x 400+km/h collisions? No chance!)
LF vs Bomber - Same as LF vs HF. (Not quite realistic, but you can't go too realistic with bombers or no-one would play them. I think this is a decent compromise?)
Also: Increase HF boost time by 50% (needs testing, might need to be higher %) so they can still make hit and run passes and get away before someone with cannons gets on their tail and guns them down. Perhaps increase their (HF) baseline speed by 10 - 15% as well. It's a small change, but would (I think) improve the game. Increasing the speed means catching HFs would be something for the interceptors (some LF and other HF), but honestly, if you're in a multirole what are you doing chasing a heavy anyway? You should be strafing soft targets to help the cap.

 

Instead of just attacking me, how about some talk about what you think of my suggestion? 0.o \o/

 

It's too complicated to work. Besides the ones above you would need MR vs LF, MR vs MR, MR, vs HF, MR vs GAA, MR vs Bomber, HF vs HF, HF vs GAA, HF vs Bomber, GAA vs Bomber

 

That's 15 or so combinations of ram that a player has to learn. Too much. Needs to be simple. 

 

Like I said the system we have is imperfect, but I have not seen a better one. A mechanic to work needs to be easily understood. A new player will be confused by having different results with different planes

 

 

 



vcharng #74 Posted 18 January 2018 - 08:54 AM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 18 January 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

 

The mechanic is stupid, and is being abused, so No, I'll have my 2cents worth, thanks muchly. How about you actually READ what I wrote, give me some criticism (in your infintie wisdom, oh mighty one) on my suggestion, instead of just flying off on a tangent. I KNOW what we have is better that before, but I think it could be tweaked and made better, so I stuck my hand up and said something.

 

It's not abuse, it is the legitimate, designed and crucial way of using this mechanism.

This is my third time saying this:

Heavier planes need ramming to kill or at least to prevent lighter and more agile planes to be able to counter their charge, where those HFs are supposed to be and has to be invincible (while not necessarily fruitful) in order to prevent BnZ from becoming entirely useless.

The balance is already inclined towards TnB, and we need each and every remaining advantage of BnZ to be retained until the situation changes.



Yasin_Hasan_Saad #75 Posted 18 January 2018 - 09:38 AM

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The most annoying part is when you are shooting down an enemy from the tail and you're almost done, a bot player from your team rams you to death or leaves you with a critical hp. it always happens to me:angry:

vcharng #76 Posted 18 January 2018 - 09:51 AM

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View PostYasin_Hasan_Saad, on 18 January 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

The most annoying part is when you are shooting down an enemy from the tail and you're almost done, a bot player from your team rams you to death or leaves you with a critical hp. it always happens to me:angry:

 

That's why I do agree with removing FRIENDLY ramming. I collided with allies twice today already, none of them was preventable from my end.

Capt_Fugly #77 Posted 18 January 2018 - 10:57 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 18 January 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

 

It's too complicated to work. Besides the ones above you would need MR vs LF, MR vs MR, MR, vs HF, MR vs GAA, MR vs Bomber, HF vs HF, HF vs GAA, HF vs Bomber, GAA vs Bomber

 

That's 15 or so combinations of ram that a player has to learn. Too much. Needs to be simple. 

 

Like I said the system we have is imperfect, but I have not seen a better one. A mechanic to work needs to be easily understood. A new player will be confused by having different results with different planes

 

 

 

 

Not really. Assuming MR is multi-role? That's the same classification as LF cause it's the same size/weight grouping (basically). Sry, I just lumped them in with the LF because they're in the same 'light' class. That takes care of  MR vs LF, MR vs MR, MR, vs HF, MR vs GAA & MR vs Bomber.  HF vs HF both take 75% damage of their max health (so a plane with 74% would die, but a plane with 76% would survive with 1%), HF vs GAA the HF dies: nothing rams a GA and survives: nothing. HF vs Bomber is the same as HF vs HF, GAA vs Bomber see HF vs GA.

Sry, thought the way I'd explained it was pretty straight forward; there's only 3 classifications. Light, Heavy and Ground. Light vs Light, both die. Light vs heavy, Light dies, heavy takes big damage. Heavy vs Heavy both take the same 75% of their max health as damage. Anything ramming a GA dies because it's basically hitting a slow moving steel wall, lol. GA takes, oh, say 40% (30% even?) of their max health as damage. Realistically they're the only plane that should be able to survive a mid-air collision consistently anyway.

As for 'combinations' a player has to learn, there's only one: ramming HURTS; avoid doing it.



Capt_Fugly #78 Posted 18 January 2018 - 11:05 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 18 January 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

 

It's not abuse, it is the legitimate, designed and crucial way of using this mechanism.

This is my third time saying this:

Heavier planes need ramming to kill or at least to prevent lighter and more agile planes to be able to counter their charge, where those HFs are supposed to be and has to be invincible (while not necessarily fruitful) in order to prevent BnZ from becoming entirely useless.

The balance is already inclined towards TnB, and we need each and every remaining advantage of BnZ to be retained until the situation changes.

 

Again, you didn't read my post explaining my suggestion, did you? I addressed the current problem with heavies being bait for lighter planes because they're too slow and don't have enough boost time, which means if they don't kill on their first pass they're on their way to the hangar because they can't escape like they ought to. Heavies don't NEED ramming; (personally) I think dedicated heavy pilots just like having an "i win" button which is seriously destroying the enjoyment in the game. I actually LIKE the new conquest pve mode, but it's really off-putting when you're outflying another player or bot and just before you make a kill some bastard in heavy comes screaming out of the sky, smashes though you like you're made of tinfoil and brown paper and continues on his merry way with barely a scratch on the paint. And you said it yourself: duck the charge, immelman and you're on their tail, if you time the duck right. Make heavies like they ought to be; Ford Muscle cars (great in a straight line ;) ) and the current "I'm in a heavy, I have to ram this guy" becomes a non-issue because you can get out of his gun-range in a couple seconds, instead of the (roughly) 30 seconds it seems to take at the moment.

Edited by Capt_Fugly, 18 January 2018 - 11:10 AM.


vcharng #79 Posted 18 January 2018 - 11:08 AM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 18 January 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

Not really. Assuming MR is multi-role? That's the same classification as LF cause it's the same size/weight grouping (basically). Sry, I just lumped them in with the LF because they're in the same 'light' class. That takes care of  MR vs LF, MR vs MR, MR, vs HF, MR vs GAA & MR vs Bomber.  HF vs HF both take 75% damage of their max health (so a plane with 74% would die, but a plane with 76% would survive with 1%), HF vs GAA the HF dies: nothing rams a GA and survives: nothing. HF vs Bomber is the same as HF vs HF, GAA vs Bomber see HF vs GA.

Sry, thought the way I'd explained it was pretty straight forward; there's only 3 classifications. Light, Heavy and Ground. Light vs Light, both die. Light vs heavy, Light dies, heavy takes big damage. Heavy vs Heavy both take the same 75% of their max health as damage. Anything ramming a GA dies because it's basically hitting a slow moving steel wall, lol. GA takes, oh, say 40% (30% even?) of their max health as damage. Realistically they're the only plane that should be able to survive a mid-air collision consistently anyway.

As for 'combinations' a player has to learn, there's only one: ramming HURTS; avoid doing it.

 

However, we have lights who doubles as GAs (Skua, classified as dive bomber IRL), heavies who are closer to lights (P-38), GAs who doubles as lights (Me 265) bombers who doubles as heavies (A-26), and heavies converted from bombers (Blenheim F, Beaufighter and Mosquito).

According to you, when a Blenheim F rams a Blenheim IV, the Tier 3 Blen 4 will win and the tier 4 Blen F will lose.

And since the US and Japanese carrier-based attackers would probably be classified as GAs, you are telling me that a Beaufighter will lose when ramming a TBD-1, which is about half its weight (11500 kg vs 4600 kg MTOW).

It's a lot more complicated than you think, and no, ramming should NOT be avoided by all players, it is a legitimate way of playing this game, and the game needs it to protect the interests of BnZ planes.



pyantoryng #80 Posted 18 January 2018 - 11:14 AM

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To me, ramming is like a point-blank rocket blast or a tailgating bomb blast, but you pay for it with your health, which could be better utilized elsewhere.



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