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Ramming needs fixing


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Capt_Fugly #21 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:19 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 16 January 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

No, this is how it's supposed to be, or else HFs will have another weakpoint which is attacking head-on, and bombers and attackers will have no way to defend themselves from enemies coming from their front hemisphere.

 

Actually, most HF are designed to outgun things head-on: thats why they have a cluster of cannons in the nose... bombers should be up near the game ceiling where most fighters cant get to them

Capt_Fugly #22 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:23 PM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 16 January 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

If a plane is heading towards you to ram, why are you still there? Why do you let them?

 

It's an imperfect mechanic, but I have not seen a suggestion that is better or addresses all classes. they all introduce more problems than they fix. 

 

Being rammed is annoying. Duck. 

 

If someone turns head on to me I will always break off with time for us to pass after giving them a squirt from the guns. I dont 'let' them ram me. So what classes did I miss? What problems would my suggestion introduce? I do duck: always. Unless they're under roughly 50% health bot HR will always go for the ram; humans probably 80%+ of the time as well.

 



Capt_Fugly #23 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:26 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 16 January 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

This is exactly why you will be rammed.

you HAVE TO let them shoot at you for free, if a HF is even defeatable when he is charging at you (i.e. it's strongest moment), then HF will be utterly underpowered and useless. Same thing applies for attackers, this is their only chance of surviving an aerial battle.

You should not intend to shoot at them at all when those HFs are changing at you, instead, you should close your distance at an angle, minimizing their firing window, changing directions from time to time (preferably, try to turn on the HFs yaw direction, as they respond the slowest in this axle) and turn to their backs after they have passed beside (instead of through) you.

 

no: it's quite possible to both roll out and pass 'wheels to wheels' or even cockpit to cockpit after going head to head and shooting at each other. The only reason people ram is because they can and get away with it. Make it painful enough and people will stop playing battering rams and learn to shoot and scoot. Even ducking and weaving I find most HF players and bots are trying to go for the ram as a coup-de-grace after shooting you up.

FluffyPabu #24 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:27 PM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 16 January 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

If someone turns head on to me I will always break off with time for us to pass after giving them a squirt from the guns. I dont 'let' them ram me. So what classes did I miss? What problems would my suggestion introduce? I do duck: always. Unless they're under roughly 50% health bot HR will always go for the ram; humans probably 80%+ of the time as well.

 

 

I think you duck when it is already too late. I mean both you and your opponent. avoid collision before reaching below 500 m

Capt_Fugly #25 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:31 PM

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View Postpoisonousblood, on 16 January 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

ahem... are people still trying to find realism in games? :teethhappy:

 

first: in this game collision mechanics depends on weight and hp pool. Different fighters have different weights. It is a logical programming that one might survive.

 

second: avoid being a kamikaze hero of this game. Probably, learn the manuevering techniques?

 

 

so whats wrong with a little realism in games? especially one like this. It might be 'logical programming", but in RL, you put 2 planes into a ram situation and over 90% of the time they're both coming down in a burning pile of wreckage, especially if they're of similar class and weight. Oh, and I'm NOT a kamikaze hero. I try to survive as much as I can while still helping my team to win. I ALWAYS duck out of a head to head with time for both planes to pass safely, even if the other plane is a burning wreck; HF I NEVER try to go head to head, I GTFO of the way of their cannons. And after 30+ years of playing flight sim combat games, I'm pretty fluent in maneuvering, thanks.

Capt_Fugly #26 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:33 PM

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View PostBuffaloTime, on 16 January 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

Light fighters head on against me when I am in attack aircraft. Three things happen.

  1. They die
  2. They curse me 
  3. They get put on ignore.

 

lmbo, I learnt that one the first time I saw a stuka aiming at me ;) attack you come up and under, or in from the sides, lol. stay out of the cannons firing arc, and dont give the tail gunner a clean shot at you ;) \o/

 



Capt_Fugly #27 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:37 PM

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View Postpoisonousblood, on 16 January 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

 

I think you duck when it is already too late. I mean both you and your opponent. avoid collision before reaching below 500 m

 

yeah, sometime I break off a 1/2 second too late and get clipped. I'm not bothered with that, that's my own fault. It's when I break off and the other player/bot deliberately turns into me for the ram that I'm talking about.

CRASHChaffee #28 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:38 PM

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vcharng #29 Posted 16 January 2018 - 01:02 PM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 16 January 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

no: it's quite possible to both roll out and pass 'wheels to wheels' or even cockpit to cockpit after going head to head and shooting at each other. The only reason people ram is because they can and get away with it. Make it painful enough and people will stop playing battering rams and learn to shoot and scoot. Even ducking and weaving I find most HF players and bots are trying to go for the ram as a coup-de-grace after shooting you up.

 

You're assuming the HF should avoid ramming, but they don't.

Using rolls is only possible when both parties are trying to avoid collision, but why should the HF do so? Of course we can force them to by changing the parameters, but that would be a serious nerf for an already subpar category.



SpiritFoxMY #30 Posted 16 January 2018 - 01:08 PM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 16 January 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

no: it's quite possible to both roll out and pass 'wheels to wheels' or even cockpit to cockpit after going head to head and shooting at each other. The only reason people ram is because they can and get away with it. Make it painful enough and people will stop playing battering rams and learn to shoot and scoot. Even ducking and weaving I find most HF players and bots are trying to go for the ram as a coup-de-grace after shooting you up.

 

I'm pretty sure it has less to do with deliberate ramming than just rushing in to try to get the last squirt at you. I know I do and I sometimes hit them on the way through.

 

To me, making collisions even more painful for Heavies, Ground Attackers and Bombers punishes a set of airplanes that are already vulnerable to lights. I've only ever deliberately tried to ram someone in a bomber. All my Heavy and Attacker rammings are accidental - the former because I got too bloodthirsty, the latter because... people are idiots? I don't know - I've never deliberately rammed anyone in an Attacker yet that's the class I have the largest number of ram kills. But people just fling themselves at my plane, especially when I was flying the Ju88P, I had one guy try to ram kill me four times in a single match. I should qualify that he was flying a Wildcat.

 

If there's anyone I think is ram-happy, its the bloody Light Fighters. I haven't suffered quite as much to heavies except bloody XP-58 Chain Lightnings but that's because I lose my cool at those bluidy OP heavies and just fling myself at them with a vengeance. 


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 16 January 2018 - 01:11 PM.

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vcharng #31 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:08 PM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 16 January 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

 

Actually, most HF are designed to outgun things head-on: thats why they have a cluster of cannons in the nose... bombers should be up near the game ceiling where most fighters cant get to them

 

You forgot about accuracy, firing window and firing interval.

None of the HFs, while maybe outgunning their opponent, can actually kill anything head-on given the extremely short firing window.

Now HFs can't kill things by shooting head-on, and they can't out turn these stuff, so what do they need? Ramming.

Also in high tiers there are anti-air rockets on non-HFs, as well as HFs without them, so the outgunning does not always apply.



NorthernPorter #32 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:17 PM

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Could we agree to always break right when playing chicken?



vcharng #33 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:24 PM

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View PostNorthernPorter, on 16 January 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

Could we agree to always break right when playing chicken?

 

Well, the HFs would probably do so...after ramming.

Like people, including me, mentioned numerous times, HF need ramming as a legitimate tool for attack, intimidation and self-defense.



trikke #34 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:51 PM

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View PostNorthernPorter, on 16 January 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Could we agree to always break right when playing chicken?

 

let's shake on that...   and the bots (the ones that break at all) seem to go left and up

 

i've tried diving, but that hasn't seemed to turn out well for me


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SpiritFoxMY #35 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:52 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 16 January 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

 

let's shake on that...   and the bots (the ones that break at all) seem to go left and up

 

i've tried diving, but that hasn't seemed to turn out well for me

 

I tend to climb. Usually they go under me, but occasionally they also try to climb...

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LMG #36 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:55 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 16 January 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

I tend to climb. Usually they go under me, but occasionally they also try to climb...

 

Personally I tend to dive except when jousting vs other GAAs (in that case I usually climb). I don't have anything that can climb fast enough to dodge a Heavy. It doesn't always work, but climbing never works :(


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Braincage #37 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:18 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 16 January 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

 

You forgot about accuracy, firing window and firing interval.

None of the HFs, while maybe outgunning their opponent, can actually kill anything head-on given the extremely short firing window.

Now HFs can't kill things by shooting head-on, and they can't out turn these stuff, so what do they need? Ramming.

Also in high tiers there are anti-air rockets on non-HFs, as well as HFs without them, so the outgunning does not always apply.

 

This is absolutely incorrect. A LOT of heavy fighters can kill fighters/other heavy fighters in the time to close the distance before a ram. It's on you to choose your targets more carefully. It takes 2 people to ram guys. Some of you may get mad because you think your opponent purposefully turned the same as you to ram but its more likely that you both tried to turn out the same way.

El_Mulo #38 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:29 PM

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To the people writting on history examples I would say that they ALLWAYS use their propell to damage the control surfaces (except for that poor italian pilot).
I ve done some "rear ramming"  but it s very difficult to do (to enemies at least - TK is other thing). 

A head to head ramming (90 % of examples)  MUST end with BOTH dead no matter the type or tier of planes involved. ALLWAYS.

But NOW this is   a f....g arcade like 1942 saga so ........


Edited by El_Mulo, 16 January 2018 - 06:30 PM.

What we say to death?

LMG #39 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:57 PM

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View PostEl_Mulo, on 16 January 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

To the people writting on history examples I would say that they ALLWAYS use their propell to damage the control surfaces (except for that poor italian pilot).
I ve done some "rear ramming"  but it s very difficult to do (to enemies at least - TK is other thing). 

A head to head ramming (90 % of examples)  MUST end with BOTH dead no matter the type or tier of planes involved. ALLWAYS.

But NOW this is   a f....g arcade like 1942 saga so ........

 

If both aircraft die during a ram then I believe it'll just cause even more ramming. Now they don't have to wait until you're low enough to score the kill, they are guaranteed to take you down no matter what


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Lt_Huber #40 Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:05 PM

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I hate the ram mechanics period. Show me a single instance of two planes colliding head on at 400+ kph and surviving. According to WG it happens all the time, and in fact can happen multiple times to the same surviving plane. Ive been on the winning and losing end of ramming, and I hate both. 

 

Edit: inb4 anyone says "it takes two to ram, just duck" Yes, I know it does. It doesn't excuse the mechanic though. 


Edited by Lt_Huber, 16 January 2018 - 07:06 PM.





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