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Ramming needs fixing


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Capt_Fugly #1 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:12 AM

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The ram mechanic is ridiculous and needs changing. How can 2 aircraft going head to head ram head-on and have one survive? It's especially bad with players and bots in heavy fighters making full use of their superior speed and flight ceiling to turn their aircraft into battering rams, usually coming out the far side with little to no damage. Hell, i've even seen light fighters ram me in a multirole WITH Bombs on and come out of it with no visible damage. It's beyond ridiculous, and needs to change.

 

A simple fix:

light fighter rams light fighter = both die.

light fighter rams multirole =  both die

light fighter rams hvy fighter OR hvy rams light = light dies, hvy takes 3/4 max health damage (no more hvy being able to ram multiple planes with impunity)

hvy rams multirole (empty) = MR dies, hvy takes 3/4 max health damage.

hvy rams multirole (bomb load) = both die

hvy rams hvy = both die.

 

The clipping damage is reasonable, but the ram damage is unrealistic and being exploited badly.

PLEASE! This is so frustrating, it really needs fixing. This ^ is a simple, realistic fix that would stop the rot.

 

 


Edited by Capt_Fugly, 16 January 2018 - 05:17 AM.


BirdForce #2 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:19 AM

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What bugs me most is when I head-on a human fighter in my fighter.. I have full health.. I bring him down to near death.. we hit.. I die and he lives.. um?

SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:20 AM

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There have been multiple (at least five) such threads in the last month n' a half and our answer os basically the same:

 

Honestly, just learn to duck.


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SpiritFoxMY #4 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:24 AM

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View PostBirdForce, on 16 January 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

What bugs me most is when I head-on a human fighter in my fighter.. I have full health.. I bring him down to near death.. we hit.. I die and he lives.. um?

 

Health bars are % not actual HP. I had a guy ram my 25% Ju88P in a 100% Mustang. Problem was a 100% Mustang has 200HP. A 25% Ju88P has 250 HP.

 

He was pissed and complained about ramming but he had noone to blame but himself


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BirdForce #5 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:30 AM

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regardless of how the health bar is.. when he(a fighter not a heavy.. or anything else that would give him a LARGE amount of Health at low health) has next to no health left hits me(near full health also in a fighter) and he lives and I die? sorry.. no.. as stated in the OP.. both of us should have died

vcharng #6 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:31 AM

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View PostCapt_Fugly, on 16 January 2018 - 05:12 AM, said:

It's especially bad with players and bots in heavy fighters making full use of their superior speed and flight ceiling to turn their aircraft into battering rams, usually coming out the far side with little to no damage. 

 

No, this is how it's supposed to be, or else HFs will have another weakpoint which is attacking head-on, and bombers and attackers will have no way to defend themselves from enemies coming from their front hemisphere.



Captain_Rownd #7 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:57 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 16 January 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

 

Honestly, just learn to duck.

 

I always "duck".  It fails surprisingly often. 

 


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SpiritFoxMY #8 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:12 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 16 January 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

 

I always "duck".  It fails surprisingly often. 

 

 

Actually I have to agree. These days I avoid HFs and GAAs if they're pointing their nose at me unless I'm in my Batplane, then it's SURPRISE MOTHERF...

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LMG #9 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:36 AM

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So what about GAAs and Bombers? They're the ones that sort of rely on it the most, especially the new German Bombers that literally have no other way to defend themselves unless you're flying low enough to actually attempt a bombkill :sceptic:


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Wombatmetal #10 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:51 AM

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If a plane is heading towards you to ram, why are you still there? Why do you let them?

 

It's an imperfect mechanic, but I have not seen a suggestion that is better or addresses all classes. they all introduce more problems than they fix. 

 

Being rammed is annoying. Duck. 



vcharng #11 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:56 AM

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View PostLMG, on 16 January 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

So what about GAAs and Bombers? They're the ones that sort of rely on it the most, especially the new German Bombers that literally have no other way to defend themselves unless you're flying low enough to actually attempt a bombkill :sceptic:

 

Actually I never had to use ramming in my Do 17 Z, Ju 88 A or Do 217 M.

Flying at the edge of red altitude can already prevent 80% of enemies from even intending to attack me, and the rest 20% are dealt with using my turrets.



LMG #12 Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:00 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 16 January 2018 - 01:56 AM, said:

Actually I never had to use ramming in my Do 17 Z, Ju 88 A or Do 217 M.

Flying at the edge of red altitude can already prevent 80% of enemies from even intending to attack me, and the rest 20% are dealt with using my turrets.

 

I've found the Do 17 z's turrets to be inadequate. They take far to long to down a fighter, let alone a heavy


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vcharng #13 Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:07 AM

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View PostLMG, on 16 January 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

 

I've found the Do 17 z's turrets to be inadequate. They take far to long to down a fighter, let alone a heavy

 

That probably explains why I'm having a good time shooting down Do 17 Zs with my Bf 110 B, but less so on my Me 410 against human A-26s.

But I've yet to find someone who would bother to come and shoot at my Do 17 Z long enough to shoot me down.



Captain_Rownd #14 Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:15 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 16 January 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

If a plane is heading towards you to ram, why are you still there? Why do you let them?

 

It's an imperfect mechanic, but I have not seen a suggestion that is better or addresses all classes. they all introduce more problems than they fix. 

 

Being rammed is annoying. Duck. 

 

Because your guns only fire in line with the direction you're flying.  When an enemy turns towards you you have to fly at them to shoot, and you don't want to turn away prematurely or you're giving them your side to shoot for free damage on you.  Ground attack planes also ram as you close in behind them, turning in the same direction you do when you break off to try to make you run into them.  They only do that because for some reason mid-air collisions don't harm them - at all, as far as I can tell. 

 

Three times in a row in the current game I "ducked".  Every time the bot turned to match my "duck" and ram-killed me. 


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vcharng #15 Posted 16 January 2018 - 08:24 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 16 January 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

 

and you don't want to turn away prematurely or you're giving them your side to shoot for free damage on you

This is exactly why you will be rammed.

you HAVE TO let them shoot at you for free, if a HF is even defeatable when he is charging at you (i.e. it's strongest moment), then HF will be utterly underpowered and useless. Same thing applies for attackers, this is their only chance of surviving an aerial battle.

You should not intend to shoot at them at all when those HFs are changing at you, instead, you should close your distance at an angle, minimizing their firing window, changing directions from time to time (preferably, try to turn on the HFs yaw direction, as they respond the slowest in this axle) and turn to their backs after they have passed beside (instead of through) you.



Wombatmetal #16 Posted 16 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 15 January 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

 

Actually I have to agree. These days I avoid HFs and GAAs if they're pointing their nose at me unless I'm in my Batplane, then it's SURPRISE MOTHERF...

 

And that's another solution. My Yak 7 and Yak 9 will hammer you if you do a header, though the 7 has the advantage of rockets to go with the 37mm

Reitousair #17 Posted 16 January 2018 - 08:59 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 15 January 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

They only do that because for some reason mid-air collisions don't harm them - at all, as far as I can tell. 

 

Three times in a row in the current game I "ducked".  Every time the bot turned to match my "duck" and ram-killed me. 

 

Rams do actually hurt GA, though LF's usually only do a laughable 50 damage or so from a collision at higher tiers. HF's can actually become a threat as they can usually score ~400-700 damage in a suicide attack. GA v. GA though :ohmy:.

Smart Soviet pilots will basically always try to force you into a ram, even if you're in a GA, because they are so tanky they can usually suffer a GA ram and still fight on.

 

On that second bit: Bots are a pain, for sure. I've noticed that only heavy air defense bots will actively press the ram. Usually with combat group bots it's dumb luck if they break in the same direction as you and you smash into each other, still can prove quite annoying. ...Though combat group HF's will usually just fly straight, even if that means straight through you...


Edited by Reitousair, 16 January 2018 - 09:00 AM.

I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


FluffyPabu #18 Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:35 AM

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ahem... are people still trying to find realism in games? :teethhappy:

 

first: in this game collision mechanics depends on weight and hp pool. Different fighters have different weights. It is a logical programming that one might survive.

 

second: avoid being a kamikaze hero of this game. Probably, learn the manuevering techniques?

 


Edited by poisonousblood, 16 January 2018 - 12:24 PM.


Marraskuu #19 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:03 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 16 January 2018 - 12:20 AM, 

 

Honestly, just learn to duck.

 

Light fighters head on against me when I am in attack aircraft. Three things happen.

  1. They die
  2. They curse me 
  3. They get put on ignore.

 
 
Han shot first.

Capt_Fugly #20 Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:17 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 16 January 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

There have been multiple (at least five) such threads in the last month n' a half and our answer os basically the same:

 

Honestly, just learn to duck.

 

I always duck. It fails more often than not. Hell, even break off early and give them a free shot at my side and most HF bots and and humans will still go for the ram.

 






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