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WG: the things that make me not want to play.


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SpiritFoxMY #21 Posted 16 January 2018 - 03:21 AM

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I dislike the "no cap kill all" mentality in WoT. While I do wish there was more some airplane classes could do to influence the match, light fighters ain't one of them. If I spawn in a light fighter on a majority factory map I either help cap the non-factory caps or, more commonly, camp the factory cap the enemy team's GAAs are most likely to attack. Because GAAs might kill large ground targets but nothing flips a cap faster than taking out two or three GAAs and the odd heavy lumbering in.

 

Light Fighters are already THE OP class in the game. No need to make it worse by forcing everyone to play by their rules


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Mercsn #22 Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:24 AM

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In my previous wall of text I may have forgot to mention that on a map with factories, in a light fighter, you are VERY useful.  Quickly fly to the plant on the "enemy's" side of the map and eliminate their GA and bomber bots (and likely GA/bomber players) who will automatically go to that zone.  If any enemy light fighters "escort" them, even better.  You can kill the fighter.  Then, kill the GA/bombers and either have enough for an outright cap of the factory zone from the enemy providing you aerial targets to kill...or put a serious chunk of "blue" on the zone thereby both denying that zone AND making it easier for your bots to capture when they finally meander to that zone AND if you wait around....the GA enemy bots will respawn and you can just kill them a 2nd time to cap the zone before moving on the furball of choice.

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eblingus #23 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:16 PM

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I came back for the PvE.  Make that better.

trikke #24 Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:55 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 15 January 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

I dislike the "no cap kill all" mentality in WoT. While I do wish there was more some airplane classes could do to influence the match, light fighters ain't one of them. If I spawn in a light fighter on a majority factory map I either help cap the non-factory caps or, more commonly, camp the factory cap the enemy team's GAAs are most likely to attack. Because GAAs might kill large ground targets but nothing flips a cap faster than taking out two or three GAAs and the odd heavy lumbering in.

 

Light Fighters are already THE OP class in the game. No need to make it worse by forcing everyone to play by their rules

 

^^ truth ^^
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StoptheViolins #25 Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:04 PM

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You can help cap factories - just kill the enemy GAs for influence points.

__ThisMachine__ #26 Posted 17 January 2018 - 10:28 AM

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View PostDesmios, on 16 January 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

World of tanks is pay2win to the core.

 

OP tier 8 cash grab premiums like chrysler GF, defender, patriot, skorp G

Premium ammo being a necessity

crapmatchmaking

corridor maps

crapexp/credit rewards

toxic player base

you forgot the most egregious thing that made WoT unplayable and exiled me to this game in the first place a few years ago, the auto-aim based and other various exploits that WG refuses to remove.



Hurk #27 Posted 18 January 2018 - 12:53 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 15 January 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

I dislike the "no cap kill all" mentality in WoT. While I do wish there was more some airplane classes could do to influence the match, light fighters ain't one of them. If I spawn in a light fighter on a majority factory map I either help cap the non-factory caps or, more commonly, camp the factory cap the enemy team's GAAs are most likely to attack. Because GAAs might kill large ground targets but nothing flips a cap faster than taking out two or three GAAs and the odd heavy lumbering in.

 

Light Fighters are already THE OP class in the game. No need to make it worse by forcing everyone to play by their rules

I personally hate the no cap kill all players. capping has a place in WoT.  its just that as WoWP sits, capping is more important than anything else.  I think WoWS has the right balance in that regard. capping can win. but kills and contested areas balance that out.

WoWP has no contested areas issues. and once neutral forces are defeated the first time, the swing of control is instant, a zone is never neutral again. even if its simply rocket strikes on an area that no one is present from either team, rockets or bombers can capture. 

the idea that non-player actions can win a game are, frankly, repulsive to me. those are great mechanics in a PVE game. as they force asymmetric warfare and force players to think and adapt. but when you spend all battle just chasing planes from place to place and re-capping, but never actually engaging enemy human operated planes.... its not PVP at that point. 

 

mind you, all this is aimed at the bots as they exist now. give me a game with 10 humans per team and all these things are simply tactical decisions. but when its PVP but the bots decide the victor... well its just not fun to me. 

 

View PostMercsn, on 15 January 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

In my previous wall of text I may have forgot to mention that on a map with factories, in a light fighter, you are VERY useful.  Quickly fly to the plant on the "enemy's" side of the map and eliminate their GA and bomber bots (and likely GA/bomber players) who will automatically go to that zone.  If any enemy light fighters "escort" them, even better.  You can kill the fighter.  Then, kill the GA/bombers and either have enough for an outright cap of the factory zone from the enemy providing you aerial targets to kill...or put a serious chunk of "blue" on the zone thereby both denying that zone AND making it easier for your bots to capture when they finally meander to that zone AND if you wait around....the GA enemy bots will respawn and you can just kill them a 2nd time to cap the zone before moving on the furball of choice.

this is awesome, until you fly into/past a factory and find zero enemy.  now you have wasted ~3-4 minutes out of position and the enemy has capped every area of the map that you as a fighter could have helped cap until that point.  but since 8 of my bots spent 5+ minutes failing to cap the factory, and im a pure fighter with no bombs or rockets... well... machine guns are useless against concrete. your own guides say as a fighter i should not be in a factory until *after* enemy is present.  I completely agree with that. 

 

if the enemy bots were soo kind as to be predictable in their behavior in always going to the proper zones where i could shoot them down, this would be a lot less of an issue. it would frankly, also fix the fact that they would no longer be flying in circles between capture areas.

 

 


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trikke #28 Posted 18 January 2018 - 01:52 AM

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View PostHurk, on 17 January 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

if the enemy bots were soo kind as to be predictable in their behavior in always going to the proper zones where i could shoot them down, this would be a lot less of an issue. it would frankly, also fix the fact that they would no longer be flying in circles between capture areas.

 

the bots are almost invariably predictable 

 

almost

 


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LMG #29 Posted 18 January 2018 - 03:07 AM

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View PostHurk, on 17 January 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

if the enemy bots were soo kind as to be predictable in their behavior in always going to the proper zones where i could shoot them down, this would be a lot less of an issue. it would frankly, also fix the fact that they would no longer be flying in circles between capture areas.

 

You can predict what a bot does as long as you have vision of their position every now and then. Bot GAAs move from sector to sector based on their own priority and the distance to the target. Mining Facilities have the highest priority, followed by Military Bases and Command Centers, then Garrisons and finally Airfields. I believe Bot bombers share the same priorities. However, if the high priority target is too far away, they'll deal with other sectors first. This can be seen on Road to Rome on the map with one Mining Facility far away from the spawn points, where the Bots go first for the nearby Command Center and then move towards the Mining Facility. Bot fighters of any type will never go to Mining Facilities unless they're passing by to reach their targets or they're going after an enemy.

 

As a GAA player I live and die by predicting what the enemy will do next, as that determines what I can, could and should do. Not only have I learned the ways of the bots, I've noticed little changes here and there, like how bot fighters now can be equipped with ordnance, and they actually use it, or how Bot bombers and GAAs used to never even attempt to take over Airfields back when 2.0 launched.


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Hurk #30 Posted 18 January 2018 - 05:25 AM

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while that is true, we have also seen full flights of 8 bots fight over the middle of the map, or 8 bots chase a bomber flight, when its clear they are useless toward a win. 
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In Practice, there is.

vcharng #31 Posted 18 January 2018 - 05:47 AM

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View PostHurk, on 18 January 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

while that is true, we have also seen full flights of 8 bots fight over the middle of the map, or 8 bots chase a bomber flight, when its clear they are useless toward a win. 

 

Or 10 non-HF bots chasing a Me 262 for miles. That was a real laugh when I saw one.

LMG #32 Posted 18 January 2018 - 05:48 AM

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View PostHurk, on 18 January 2018 - 12:25 AM, said:

while that is true, we have also seen full flights of 8 bots fight over the middle of the map, or 8 bots chase a bomber flight, when its clear they are useless toward a win. 

 

Again, that's all bot priorities. It's not whether or not they will do it, it's how to get them to do something else or make use out of them doing something, which imo is a GAA's true potential (and why I believe they're secretly the true meta of the game right now :hiding:). For bombing runs, you have to capture the enemy's CC to free the bots. On maps with multiple Command Centers this becomes a race of "who can capture the CC faster", with ground pounders quickly moving from one side of the map to the other. The best case scenario is getting the CC while keeping your own and with the bots engaging the last bombing run. Alternatively, it's also possible to "race" the bombing runs and take over other areas or recapture whatever they do get. It's also worth noting that if the bots kill a Bombing Run on top of a hostile sector, they can actually switch to engaging Air Defense Aircraft over that sector instead of heading for the next few bombers, depending on distance.

 

To free them from deathballs in the center of the map all nearby enemy planes must be dead, sadly. Alternatively, take the chance to steal some sectors and force the enemy to either losen their grip in the middle or lose all their points. Furthermore, you can even get some enemy bots off the middle by giving them a closer target when they spawn through this method. Maybe even fly cover for your Bombers or GAAs; even if they're not good at their job they make decent bot bait :kamikaze:. As a last ditch effort, you can get bots off the middle by letting the enemy capture it. Once a bot runs out of targets, they'll fly off to whatever's closer to them that they recognize as a threat (in the case of Bombers and GAAs they usually sit over an allied sector). Just let the bots get their prize, wait for them to leave, and then move in to flip it around. This is especially helpful on maps with central Mining Facilities, as it's possible to recapture it before its benefits kick in :great:


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Billy_The_Butcher #33 Posted 18 January 2018 - 12:43 PM

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Bots being uneven is the BIGGEST problem with the game atm, IMHO

StoptheViolins #34 Posted 18 January 2018 - 03:01 PM

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I am still reeling from the Albion event.  For a solid week I couldn't really play what I wanted to play nor really play against meatbags since no one was really playing Axis.  Add in that MM allows for 2 humans vs 1 human in mostly bot matches which pretty much makes the 2 human team the match winners.

Mercsn #35 Posted 20 January 2018 - 05:45 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 17 January 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

 

the bots are almost invariably predictable 

 

almost

 

This. Bot behavior isn't random. It's often stupid and useless, but not random. 

 

As LMG or Mars (who both spend a lot of time in the mud), learning how to read the map, predict what the bots will do, and learn how to get them to do something useful is key in a lot of matches, especially if they are most of the team. Stupid players will also follow stupid bots, so even in matches with mostly players, guiding the bots is valuable.  

 

"Guide" the bots away from bombers by capturing the enemy command center. If nobody is willing to help you, go on and kill the 2 defense bots and fly out if you have no ordnance heavy enough to kill a GT before AA eats you. Come back when they respawn to finish capturing it. Or if your bombers are attacking it, escort them and kill the enemy bots coming to attack them with help from the bombers' guns. 

 

No GA on a plant? Were they human?  Anticipate humans might behave differently than bots. But most human GA and bombers will head to plant because it wins games

 Just remember, GA are slow. If they don't show up on map in another zone, they're still enroute. 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #36 Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:24 AM

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One thing starting to annoy me to the point of playing less is that non-GAA bots at all tiers firing rockets hither and yon instead of at head-on reds or ground structures seems to have increased with the last few patches.

It's no wonder bots can't hardly contribute to captures, almost always being already unable to shoot down hostile or neutral planes while at the same time having wasted their ordnance with zero potential benefit.

 

I tried playing earlier this afternoon and lost almost every single tier VI match, with matchmaker placing multiple clan folks plus ringers on red along with the better bots pretty much nothing I did mattered.

One or two matches with the same folks/bot skill assignment on red I can buy as random, but after three battles? - time to swap tiers or exit the game, which is a common failing in all of WG's titles.


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SpiritFoxMY #37 Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:15 AM

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View PostSoylent_Red_Isnt_People, on 23 January 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

One thing starting to annoy me to the point of playing less is that non-GAA bots at all tiers firing rockets hither and yon instead of at head-on reds or ground structures seems to have increased with the last few patches.

It's no wonder bots can't hardly contribute to captures, almost always being already unable to shoot down hostile or neutral planes while at the same time having wasted their ordnance with zero potential benefit.

 

I tried playing earlier this afternoon and lost almost every single tier VI match, with matchmaker placing multiple clan folks plus ringers on red along with the better bots pretty much nothing I did mattered.

One or two matches with the same folks/bot skill assignment on red I can buy as random, but after three battles? - time to swap tiers or exit the game, which is a common failing in all of WG's titles.

 

I have a hunch that the matchmaker has a hidden modifier that loads the dice against players at some points - there were a few weeks immediately after the Albion event where I couldn't seem to get anywhere with the matchups I was getting, with Ace level bots sniping me and hunting me down at every turn. Last weekend, though, the bots seem to have reverted to a more docile state and my WR's on the way back up


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LMG #38 Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:19 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 22 January 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

I have a hunch that the matchmaker has a hidden modifier that loads the dice against players at some points - there were a few weeks immediately after the Albion event where I couldn't seem to get anywhere with the matchups I was getting, with Ace level bots sniping me and hunting me down at every turn. Last weekend, though, the bots seem to have reverted to a more docile state and my WR's on the way back up

 

I'm yet to find these so-called Ace bots. They all seem to do about the same, with a few differences like some using ordnance and others possibly spawning on Airfields, except GAA bots. Those I can tell apart by how many times they crash into the chimneys of Mining Plants :facepalm:


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SpiritFoxMY #39 Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:31 AM

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View PostLMG, on 23 January 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

 

I'm yet to find these so-called Ace bots. They all seem to do about the same, with a few differences like some using ordnance and others possibly spawning on Airfields, except GAA bots. Those I can tell apart by how many times they crash into the chimneys of Mining Plants :facepalm:

 

I used to think the same until I had a string of devastating defeats despite a) doing little different than what I'd always done and b) found myself being headhunted more often than I'm used to.

 

I mean I've dove into deathballs before but for a period of two weeks it seemed like half the deathball would peel off and hunt me down or gang up on me in a fight. I've been chased around half the map by a swarm of bots hell-bent on killing me or been repeatedly targeted by big boomstick snipers. I thought I was just having bad matchups against more highly skilled players but I had several games where not only were the people picking on me bots, the humans on the other team were practically AFK with sub 2k CP games in light fighters... and I still lost and kept getting repeatedly bounced by XP-58s in particular.

 

The clincher for me was one game where both humans on the opposing team disconnected, never came back... and I got boomed to kingdom come by a pair of bot XP-58s while my team got roflstomped in a 4 minute supremacy massacre.

 

I try not to blame the game for my own poor performance but that... that was absurd.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 23 January 2018 - 07:32 AM.

***

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And a laurel to crown each end


CorvusCorvax #40 Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:53 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 18 January 2018 - 01:52 AM, said:

 

the bots are almost invariably predictable 

 

almost

 

 

60% of the time, they are always predictable.




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