Jump to content


Road To Rome: Breakthrough - worst setup for a map


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

Klingon_Glory #1 Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:39 PM

    Airman Basic

  • Member
  • 1022 battles
  • 4
  • [QAPLA] QAPLA
  • Member since:
    10-17-2016

This is the worst map I have encountered. You have 1 Command Center on one side, 1 Airfield in the middle, and 2 Garrisons on the other side. I have never lost when on the side with the command center, and never won when on the side with the garrisons.

 

It's not hard to figure out why. All AI (and usually humans) take the Command Center very quickly. On the other side AI splits usually to go for the Garrisons, and maybe 1 lone plane trickles to the airfield. By the time one garrison is captured, you have enemy AI bombers coming to bomb because the other team has already taken the Command Center. Meanwhile, the Airfield is quickly captured by the team holding the Command Center too. So now they have repairs (heals), and quicker re-spawn time as well.

 

What follows next is usually total control of the skies as the garrisons are quickly overrun. It's a free win for one team, and an all but guaranteed beating for the other.

 

This map is VERY imbalanced. PLEASE fix this map, or have it removed. I refuse to fly in it any longer.



StoptheViolins #2 Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1373 battles
  • 727
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Per the dev blog all non-mirror maps like that one will be re-evaluated for balance with some being removed until they can balance them.

LMG #3 Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:25 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 788 battles
  • 558
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

My biggest problem with that map is that there is only one good way for GAAs on the garrison side to hit the Command Center, and that's through the mountains. If they go through the shore, they have to pass in front of the other team's spawn, which can easilly spell doom to the GAA's plan. There IS a death star trench that takes you up to the CC's front gate at a fairly low altitude, but I'm not confident that it will save me from getting spotted forever. I can't realistically  go through the central airfield if it's under enemy control; if I don't get shot down half-way through I'm surely spotted once I come out the other side. On top of that, most of the bots tend to capture the garrison near the mountains, so either I help oversaturate that sector or go for the one in the shore and end up in a bad position right off the bat.

 

I just don't feel like most of these asymmetrical maps create interesting strategies, they just narrow down what you have to do to win. At least some of the worst offenders aren't around anymore :sceptic:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

Reitousair #4 Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:13 PM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 1963 battles
  • 26
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    08-10-2013

While I would say Breakthrough is quite... iffy, it is possible to win on the side with the garrisons. However, this requires your team to have a GA pilot who can solo cap quickly, otherwise what OP described always happens. However, I would not say this has been the worst setup for an asymmetrical map, as it's possible for garrison team to win by capping garrisons within the first 2 minutes and then a coordinated push to airbase.

 

Plateau - Shock Wave, on the other hand, now THAT map I would say has been the worst I've seen, thankfully it has been removed for the time being.



Destroyer_Suzukaze #5 Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:25 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 678 battles
  • 510
  • Member since:
    06-02-2013

Worst I have seen was right after 2.02 was released. I was in a tier 2 game in a Stosser.

 

We got Alpine with two mines for capture points. I would dive to ground level and was still yellow because of the altitude. Climbing to fly from one cap to the next without stalling was a challenge.

 

We were all flying around like we were in molassas. The mines never were capped.

 

Think this was fixed. Kinda funny



LMG #6 Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:25 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 788 battles
  • 558
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 11 January 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

Worst I have seen was right after 2.02 was released. I was in a tier 2 game in a Stosser.

 

We got Alpine with two mines for capture points. I would dive to ground level and was still yellow because of the altitude. Climbing to fly from one cap to the next without stalling was a challenge.

 

We were all flying around like we were in molassas. The mines never were capped.

 

Think this was fixed. Kinda funny

 

What Alpine? Alpine Gambit? I don't think anything under tier V or VI can or should even see that map :amazed:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

Destroyer_Suzukaze #7 Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:37 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 678 battles
  • 510
  • Member since:
    06-02-2013

View PostLMG, on 11 January 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

 

What Alpine? Alpine Gambit? I don't think anything under tier V or VI can or should even see that map :amazed:

 

think it was Alpine Gambit, and a simple deployment glitch. Only saw it once, but it was a doozy

legoboy0401 #8 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:28 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 325 battles
  • 224
  • Member since:
    11-30-2013

View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 11 January 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Worst I have seen was right after 2.02 was released. I was in a tier 2 game in a Stosser.

 

We got Alpine with two mines for capture points. I would dive to ground level and was still yellow because of the altitude. Climbing to fly from one cap to the next without stalling was a challenge.

 

We were all flying around like we were in molassas. The mines never were capped.

 

Think this was fixed. Kinda funny

 

View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 11 January 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

 

think it was Alpine Gambit, and a simple deployment glitch. Only saw it once, but it was a doozy

 

Are you sure it wasn't a higher-tiered version of Peripheral Mission?


Random Thoughts Of The Day:

 

World of Warplanes? More like World of Bots-that-are-designed-to-fail-so-you-lose-as-often-as-you-win.

Heavy Fighters? More like Obsolete Flying Bricks.

Attack Aircraft? More like Bomber-wannabes.


LMG #9 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:59 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 788 battles
  • 558
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Postlegoboy0401, on 11 January 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

Are you sure it wasn't a higher-tiered version of Peripheral Mission?

 

Some spawns on Alpine Gambit start you up in the mountains. It really harms tier VI GAAs, as they start deep within yellow altitude :ohmy:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

Reitousair #10 Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:25 AM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 1963 battles
  • 26
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    08-10-2013

View PostLMG, on 11 January 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

Some spawns on Alpine Gambit start you up in the mountains. It really harms tier VI GAAs, as they start deep within yellow altitude :ohmy:

 

At least it's not as bad as a spawn on Peripheral Mission where you can quite literally spawn IN one of the mountains. I forget the version of the map but one of my friends was dead as soon as the match started due to a buggy spawn.

LMG #11 Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:36 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 788 battles
  • 558
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostReitousair, on 11 January 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

At least it's not as bad as a spawn on Peripheral Mission where you can quite literally spawn IN one of the mountains. I forget the version of the map but one of my friends was dead as soon as the match started due to a buggy spawn.

 

That reminds me, some spawns actually make planes collide before the battle starts. Good thing collision isn't turned on during that time :trollface:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

S_L_A_Y #12 Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:06 AM

    Airman Basic

  • Member
  • 1224 battles
  • 5
  • Member since:
    04-30-2011

View PostKlingon_Glory, on 11 January 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

This is the worst map I have encountered. You have 1 Command Center on one side, 1 Airfield in the middle, and 2 Garrisons on the other side. I have never lost when on the side with the command center, and never won when on the side with the garrisons.

 

It's not hard to figure out why. All AI (and usually humans) take the Command Center very quickly. On the other side AI splits usually to go for the Garrisons, and maybe 1 lone plane trickles to the airfield. By the time one garrison is captured, you have enemy AI bombers coming to bomb because the other team has already taken the Command Center. Meanwhile, the Airfield is quickly captured by the team holding the Command Center too. So now they have repairs (heals), and quicker re-spawn time as well.

 

What follows next is usually total control of the skies as the garrisons are quickly overrun. It's a free win for one team, and an all but guaranteed beating for the other.

 

This map is VERY imbalanced. PLEASE fix this map, or have it removed. I refuse to fly in it any longer.

 

This obviously isn't likely to happen often but tonight with me in tier x german ga and a friend in f86 we had that map on side with 2 garrisons and we won 800-0.

 

I took north garrison and boosted to command center. Sat at command center entire game and prevented them from capping it. My friend took south garrison and took airfield and defended it entire game.

 

Nothing is impossible you just have to take bad map design sometimes and make it work.



LMG #13 Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:05 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 788 battles
  • 558
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostS_L_A_Y, on 12 January 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

This obviously isn't likely to happen often but tonight with me in tier x german ga and a friend in f86 we had that map on side with 2 garrisons and we won 800-0.

 

I took north garrison and boosted to command center. Sat at command center entire game and prevented them from capping it. My friend took south garrison and took airfield and defended it entire game.

 

Nothing is impossible you just have to take bad map design sometimes and make it work.

 

I mean, we can make it work, doesn't make the map any better. A mud cake is still made out of mud. Even WG knows their asymmetry is off, as they have already pulled a few maps out of rotation. This one I'm not sure if it's that bad yet, but I surely do not enjoy when it shows up, on either side


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

vcharng #14 Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:30 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1660 battles
  • 218
  • Member since:
    10-25-2017

I also won at both sides of that map in my 1102 B, but I do agree that these asymmetric maps are very shallow in strategy.

In fact, as I suggested in one of the threads in the suggestion section, all maps with less than 5 capture areas are shallow in strategy. For GAAs and bombers it's far too easy to be found as the enemy don't even have to think and search for your location, they can find you and shoot you down whereever and whenever they want.

 

BTW my vote for THE worst map setup goes to the asymmetric version of Archipelago. The one with one CC at one side and an airfield and garrison on the other side. Practically unplayable for GAAs and bombers and very frustrating for heavies.



SpiritFoxMY #15 Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:36 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 743 battles
  • 441
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012

View Postvcharng, on 12 January 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

BTW my vote for THE worst map setup goes to the asymmetric version of Archipelago. The one with one CC at one side and an airfield and garrison on the other side. Practically unplayable for GAAs and bombers and very frustrating for heavies.

 

I dunno. I actually like that one because its almost an automatic "I win" button for me because the mechanics are so simple. Its rare for me to lose that one and when I do its usually on multi-human teams and the humans on my side don't get the trick to winning


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


vcharng #16 Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:30 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1660 battles
  • 218
  • Member since:
    10-25-2017

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 12 January 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

 

I dunno. I actually like that one because its almost an automatic "I win" button for me because the mechanics are so simple. Its rare for me to lose that one and when I do its usually on multi-human teams and the humans on my side don't get the trick to winning

 

This reminds me of those platonners on Tier 10... using the flaw of MM to farm win rate...

 

Anyway...

Well, let's put it this way, if a map becomes an "I win" button, than clearly there is something wrong about it. Making the mechanics too simple may cause lose of interest and excitement, loss of new players and other problems just by itself.



SpiritFoxMY #17 Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:42 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 743 battles
  • 441
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012

View Postvcharng, on 12 January 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

 

This reminds me of those platonners on Tier 10... using the flaw of MM to farm win rate...

 

Anyway...

Well, let's put it this way, if a map becomes an "I win" button, than clearly there is something wrong about it. Making the mechanics too simple may cause lose of interest and excitement, loss of new players and other problems just by itself.

 

Aww :p and I was so proud of myself for having figured the map out


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


StoptheViolins #18 Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1373 battles
  • 727
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Well T9 also has the same thing.  With so few folks at T9 I find myself in 1v2 meatbags situations because the other team had two players that were in a flight.

LMG #19 Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:34 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 788 battles
  • 558
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 12 January 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Aww :p and I was so proud of myself for having figured the map out

 

I think I also figured out that map. It boils down to the south team either defending vs the Bombing Runs or taking the CC, and the north taking the Forward Airstrip while keeping the CC. I've found that it's not as bad as Scorching Sands: Outpost, which was a guaranteed win for the south team more often than not, but I never really have fun except on specific crazy situations, and even then I'm sure I ruined someone's day :unsure:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

vcharng #20 Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:27 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1660 battles
  • 218
  • Member since:
    10-25-2017

View PostStoptheViolins, on 12 January 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

Well T9 also has the same thing.  With so few folks at T9 I find myself in 1v2 meatbags situations because the other team had two players that were in a flight.

 

totally agreed. I hate those flight players as I think they are deliberately using the MM/playerbase problem to farm their win rates.

And yes, now in T9/T10 there are practically no fair fight, I play every game in my P.1102B either thinking I've become some of those platooners' practice target, or feeling sorry for that poor T9 guy who has to go against me.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users