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XF-90 Issues


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Colddawg #1 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:28 PM

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With the current desync issue of shells visually hitting the target, but not actually hitting the target or hitting the target X seconds later, the XF-90 is not very fun or rewarding to play at all.  All this bird has is speed.  It doesn't turn, it doesn't quickly kill targets for it's rate of maneuverability, and it needs a rebalance.

 

If possible try testing the plane with 10 more maneuverability stat points.  27 is way too low for a tier 10 that can eventually be caught because the plane has to turn at some time.


Keep your head on the swivel.


ArrowZ_ #2 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:43 PM

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I dont see it being viable in the current meta. Expect dust collection to occur.... But it's still fun to zoom to the moon! 

Edited by ArrowZ_, 08 January 2018 - 10:44 PM.

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pyantoryng #3 Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:13 PM

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The XF-90 has some awkward gun placement...unlike the Pancake and F2H that has theirs in the nose, so expect less accuracy from it...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Mercsn #4 Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:08 AM

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I'd like to point out that the "stat points", the summary score of stats listed in the aircraft's stats are completely meaningless.  I mean, WG doesn't listen to suggestions from players on how aircraft perform.  But, if you're going to make a suggestion, click the primary line of a statistic and look at what it's actual stats are, then make a suggestion on how to improve that.

 


 

The summary point values are TOTALLY meaningless.


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The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

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FIight #5 Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:09 AM

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The XF-90 has been a perfect BNZ machine in 1.9 meta. Its high rate of climb,

explosive armament made it a killer at high altitude(over 5000m). Still my fav heavy

though it no longer fits the meta.

Spoiler

 



pyantoryng #6 Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:57 PM

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View PostEinssniper, on 09 January 2018 - 04:09 AM, said:

The XF-90 has been a perfect BNZ machine in 1.9 meta. Its high rate of climb,

explosive armament made it a killer at high altitude(over 5000m). Still my fav heavy

though it no longer fits the meta.

Spoiler

 

 

What's up there apart from beautiful scenery below?

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Colddawg #7 Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:04 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 08 January 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

I'd like to point out that the "stat points", the summary score of stats listed in the aircraft's stats are completely meaningless.  I mean, WG doesn't listen to suggestions from players on how aircraft perform.  But, if you're going to make a suggestion, click the primary line of a statistic and look at what it's actual stats are, then make a suggestion on how to improve that.

 


 

The summary point values are TOTALLY meaningless.

 

Average Time to Turn 360 deg, s17.30Rate of Roll, °/s90Optimum Airspeed, km/h862Stall Speed, km/h300

 

Needs to be Average Time to Turn 360 deg, s15.40Rate of Roll, °/s90Optimum Airspeed, km/h862Stall Speed, km/h300

Just like the other sets of HFs from Germany and UK.
 

Edited by Colddawg, 09 January 2018 - 03:05 PM.

Keep your head on the swivel.


FIight #8 Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:59 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 09 January 2018 - 08:57 AM, said:

 

What's up there apart from beautiful scenery below?

 

A bot Javelin gets on my tail and I am doing high-G scissors above 5000m. 



Onyx #9 Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:46 AM

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View PostColddawg, on 09 January 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

 

Average Time to Turn 360 deg, s17.30Rate of Roll, °/s90Optimum Airspeed, km/h862Stall Speed, km/h300

 

Needs to be Average Time to Turn 360 deg, s15.40Rate of Roll, °/s90Optimum Airspeed, km/h862Stall Speed, km/h300

Just like the other sets of HFs from Germany and UK.
 

 

I don't honestly think 15.4 turn time will save it.  In my experience, the break point between a good heavy and a bad one is about 14 seconds.  This is why the P-38s (despite the awful potatogun) and especially XF5U does so well, but once you hit that magical 14 second threshold (F7F, BF 109Z, etc) they just start getting worse and worse in the current meta.  The exception to this is about tier 5/6 specifically, where 16s turn times can work if you have guns that can reach out far enough with high enough DPS.  The health and speeds are sufficiently low enough and the guns sufficiently high enough range to reasonably destroy low health targets on a slow pass, such as what the SE 100 does.

 

I obviously don't have the XF-90 or even F2H (currently tier 8) but I'm not expecting it to magically get better from going up in tier as the speed increases more while gun ranges stay largely the same.

 

The issue primarily comes down to raw controllability and the reduced pass window to drop a target.

 

The XF5U is noteworthy because it's fast (tops out around 800kph in boost), has a fantastic turn time (13.1), good enough guns (680 dps) at a ridiculous range (800ish meters) that allows it to easily deal with turners on the pass and zoom away afterwards.  The difference between the F7F and XF5U is night and day in terms of how usable the 2 are in doing the job of a heavy, with the XF5U vastly overshadowing the F7F about doing its specific job in its tier.

 

Despite its advantages, the XF5U will lose a turn fight with every light fighter, and fighters like the P-51H will flat out hard counter it if allowed to, while the Spit 14 will have the ability to threaten the XF5U but cannot reasonably catch it if the XF5U doesn't want to be caught (so, maintains a high speed on a pass).

 

Because of this, I feel that heavies need to be treated more like the XF5U as a whole instead of the Me 262 or the like.  Their turn times in general need to be brought down.  Their defensive nature is fine, ish, and they have natural predators.  However, they have serious concerns that render them incapable of being serious threats in the game in terms of influencing the match towards a win.  They might need sidegrades instead of outright buffs (so, nerf X to buff Y), but 15.4 is probably not good enough for them.



SpiritFoxMY #10 Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:53 AM

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Personally for the 262, I think just a longer, more powerful and faster regenerating boost will solve a lot of problems. Heck, if they allowed it to use the Improved Radiator upgrade it would significantly boost combat capacity since I have my "get out of jail" card to allow me to dramatically accelerate out of a turn if I need to

***

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Onyx #11 Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:03 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 21 January 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

Personally for the 262, I think just a longer, more powerful and faster regenerating boost will solve a lot of problems. Heck, if they allowed it to use the Improved Radiator upgrade it would significantly boost combat capacity since I have my "get out of jail" card to allow me to dramatically accelerate out of a turn if I need to

 

The issue with the 262 is primarily that the plane is too fast (with no option to slow down at all) for its awful gun range.  It cannot get in range at a low enough speed with good enough turning to actually get the guns on target for meaningful damage.  Its ability to boom and zoom is already unparalleled in tier, but it can't actually boom reasonably against a target remotely paying attention to and defending against it.

 

Its boom and zoom nature isn't that important to buff, it's already solid.  The issue is target acquisition and time on target are too low to be effective, and part of that is its awful turn time.

 

That said, boost needs to be adjusted across the board.  Static boost regeneration times don't work in the game.  Having more buffer isn't an advantage for how the game plays.  Boost definitely needs to be faster on heavier/slower turning planes and vice versa.  Hell, it's the biggest hidden stat in the game (how much boost you have and how fast it accelerates you).  Planes like the F2G can't even out-accelerate the Spitfire 14, it's just bizarrely set up.


Edited by Onyx, 22 January 2018 - 04:04 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #12 Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:34 AM

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I run Enhanced Flaps on my 262 (after the third time I flew into a mountain chasing a GAA). Slowing and turning wouldn't be as much an issue if I didn't have to watch the boost constantly to make sure I had enough to accelerate out of trouble after bleeding speed in a turn.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


FIight #13 Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:05 AM

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View PostColddawg, on 09 January 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

 

Average Time to Turn 360 deg, s17.30Rate of Roll, °/s90Optimum Airspeed, km/h862Stall Speed, km/h300

 

Needs to be Average Time to Turn 360 deg, s15.40Rate of Roll, °/s90Optimum Airspeed, km/h862Stall Speed, km/h300

Just like the other sets of HFs from Germany and UK.
 

 

Think about this, it's not the turn rate that makes HFs less effective in the current meta, it's the fact

that their speed are not great enough, and their weaponry not powerful enough to be as effective as

LFs. 

Now everything turns so fast, and as a result HFs get shorter and shorter shooting window, whereas their

weapon damage pretty much stays the same. HFs have no problem in turning, but they are failed weapon platform

that fails to kill a plane efficiently.

What about making all the weapon damage higher? That will solve a lot of problems. 

The GAAs will be balanced so are the bombers as now any guns can take more of their hp. The HFs will be able to

kill its prey in one single pass and LFs can be more effective against GAAs and bombers.

 

Let's be historical but not too overrated:

weapons                           rate of fire

MG-213(20)                      1500

MG-213(30)                      700

ADEN                               650

m-61 Vulcan                     6000

MK-12                              1200

m-39                                 1200

NR-23                               700

N-37D                               480

H.S. 404 mk. V                 700

MG-151/20(1944)             600

DEFA 30mm                    700

23mm AM-23                   1200

50mm MK-214                 180

30mm MK-103                 180

57 mm RShR-57                   120

30mm Typpe-17               500

30mm Ho-155-III              600



SpiritFoxMY #14 Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:58 AM

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View PostEinssniper, on 23 January 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

 

Think about this, it's not the turn rate that makes HFs less effective in the current meta, it's the fact

that their speed are not great enough, and their weaponry not powerful enough to be as effective as

LFs. 

Now everything turns so fast, and as a result HFs get shorter and shorter shooting window, whereas their

weapon damage pretty much stays the same. HFs have no problem in turning, but they are failed weapon platform

that fails to kill a plane efficiently.

What about making all the weapon damage higher? That will solve a lot of problems. 

The GAAs will be balanced so are the bombers as now any guns can take more of their hp. The HFs will be able to

kill its prey in one single pass and LFs can be more effective against GAAs and bombers.

 

Let's be historical but not too overrated:

weapons                           rate of fire

MG-213(20)                      1500

MG-213(30)                      700

ADEN                               650

m-61 Vulcan                     6000

MK-12                              1200

m-39                                 1200

NR-23                               700

N-37D                               480

H.S. 404 mk. V                 700

MG-151/20(1944)             600

DEFA 30mm                    700

23mm AM-23                   1200

50mm MK-214                 180

30mm MK-103                 180

57 mm RShR-57                   120

30mm Typpe-17               500

30mm Ho-155-III              600

 

Personally, I would just diversify the pilots' skill tree - reduce the number of universal passives and introduce active/passive skills that will benefit certain playstyles i.e introducing a skill that allows me to accelerate faster per boost or increase the damage I deal per hit relative to the speed difference between airplanes.

 

Maybe introduce additional upgrade options as well like improved weapon barrels for increased shell velocity or faster RoF... rather than an across the board change, give us more options to tailor our airplanes


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Hiro_Yoshi #15 Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:29 AM

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The real magic to the XF5U is its low stall speed (historic STOL feature ^^), allowing it to slow down and let virtually everything else zoom by. The only other planes that come close are low tier biplanes.




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