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Why are the US lines the ONLY lines to only have 80 DPS?


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mustangman6579 #1 Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:39 AM

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I looked, and every single line in this game, has better guns than the 2 US lines. 

 

80 DPS at t9 and 10 is just a joke. Why do the 12.7mm(.50call) guns so worthless?



vcharng #2 Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:00 PM

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View Postmustangman6579, on 08 January 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

I looked, and every single line in this game, has better guns than the 2 US lines. 

 

80 DPS at t9 and 10 is just a joke. Why do the 12.7mm(.50call) guns so worthless?

 

You do realize it's 80 x 6 = 480 DPS for the F-86A don't you?

Although I have to admit, it is very confusing: front guns need to multiply, but rear guns don't, and I'm still not sure about engine power.

 

Edit: while 480 DPS is still unimpressive at T10, at least now the Americans have a new mate to share such a pain: the Japanese Ki-162-III, also 480.


Edited by vcharng, 08 January 2018 - 12:21 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:29 PM

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I was wondering myself - to be honest, I don't know why they didn't at least introduce the 4x20mm configuration of the Sabre. Sure it was a failure, but... well...

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mustangman6579 #4 Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:42 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 08 January 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

 

You do realize it's 80 x 6 = 480 DPS for the F-86A don't you?

Although I have to admit, it is very confusing: front guns need to multiply, but rear guns don't, and I'm still not sure about engine power.

 

Edit: while 480 DPS is still unimpressive at T10, at least now the Americans have a new mate to share such a pain: the Japanese Ki-162-III, also 480.

 

Are you sure about that? Because that sounds way off being that t10 Sabre only has 600. So that means it could die to it'self in under 2 seconds. 

SpiritFoxMY #5 Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:56 PM

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View Postmustangman6579, on 08 January 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

 

Are you sure about that? Because that sounds way off being that t10 Sabre only has 600. So that means it could die to it'self in under 2 seconds. 

 

I don't think DPS takes into account RNG. As far as I know, each shot from your weapon has a chance of flying anywhere within where the targeting reticle WAS, so while firing at a fast moving target, the actual amount of shots you land is a lot lower than spec'd meaning your actual DPS is a lot lower. So unless you were so close the other Sabre completely filled your circle for the full 1.5 seconds, there's no way you'd take him down that fast


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FluffyPabu #6 Posted 08 January 2018 - 01:15 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 08 January 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

 

You do realize it's 80 x 6 = 480 DPS for the F-86A don't you?

Although I have to admit, it is very confusing: front guns need to multiply, but rear guns don't, and I'm still not sure about engine power.

 

Edit: while 480 DPS is still unimpressive at T10, at least now the Americans have a new mate to share such a pain: the Japanese Ki-162-III, also 480.

 

damn math is hard :trollface:

vcharng #7 Posted 08 January 2018 - 01:34 PM

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View Postpoisonousblood, on 08 January 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

damn math is hard :trollface:

 

Uhh... did i miscalculate something?

 

 

As for the multiplying thing, Mustang, you can go and check F4F's tech tree. 4x 50 cal has exactly the same firepower with 6x 50 cal, which is clearly impossible, the only explanation is that it means 38 (i think) x 4 or x6 according to which gun set you are mounting.


Edited by vcharng, 08 January 2018 - 01:39 PM.


J311yfish #8 Posted 08 January 2018 - 01:48 PM

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It could be that they are tuned for different ranges.  A nose-mounted gun vs. wing mounted guns, for example.  That would explain different damage-per-second values at different ranges with the same guns.

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StoptheViolins #9 Posted 08 January 2018 - 02:15 PM

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Most of the fighter lines work out to 26 DPS and something better than a Mig.  What gets me is the terribad range of the 50's.  At jet speeds burst damage seems to be the most useful number - which the 50 cal doesn't get.  At jet ranges the 50 cal just  doesn't cut it.  Heavies can kite 50 cal equipped planes all day since most US planes don't turn quick enough to get the guns on the passing heavy's backside.

 

DPS is nice but that implies you can keep the plane pointed at the target for a second which doesn't seem to be the case in most instances.  I'd rather have high DPS and low RPM for more alpha/burst/snap damage vs high DPS and high RPM which gives more sustained damage but requires more gun time on target to do that DPS.  



Zergling #10 Posted 08 January 2018 - 04:11 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 08 January 2018 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

Although I have to admit, it is very confusing: front guns need to multiply, but rear guns don't, and I'm still not sure about engine power.

 

It looks like the German bomber guns multiply, which is making the issue even more confusing. WG needs to make those things consistent.



mustangman6579 #11 Posted 08 January 2018 - 04:12 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 08 January 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

 

Uhh... did i miscalculate something?

 

 

As for the multiplying thing, Mustang, you can go and check F4F's tech tree. 4x 50 cal has exactly the same firepower with 6x 50 cal, which is clearly impossible, the only explanation is that it means 38 (i think) x 4 or x6 according to which gun set you are mounting.

 

I was wondering because on the t7 mustang, it has 4x and 6x 50s. But shows the same DPS for both. 

mnbv_fockewulfe #12 Posted 08 January 2018 - 06:23 PM

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A very simple way to calculate the relative firepowers of different plants.

Time to kill/number of bullets that hit. 

The larger to number, the better the firepower.


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Pogo68 #13 Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:37 PM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 08 January 2018 - 06:15 AM, said:

Most of the fighter lines work out to 26 DPS and something better than a Mig.  What gets me is the terribad range of the 50's.  At jet speeds burst damage seems to be the most useful number - which the 50 cal doesn't get.  At jet ranges the 50 cal just  doesn't cut it.  Heavies can kite 50 cal equipped planes all day since most US planes don't turn quick enough to get the guns on the passing heavy's backside.

 

DPS is nice but that implies you can keep the plane pointed at the target for a second which doesn't seem to be the case in most instances.  I'd rather have high DPS and low RPM for more alpha/burst/snap damage vs high DPS and high RPM which gives more sustained damage but requires more gun time on target to do that DPS.  

 

Oddly I find low DPS w high rates of fire gives me more kills than high damage and a low rate of fire.

 

I do better when I mount 4 20mm on an Me-262 than when I mount 4 30mms on it.

It takes me one pass with the quad 20's to kill a bomber or a fighter, but it takes me 2 passes to kill a bomber or 3 attacks to kill a fighter.

 


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Kiwiav8r #14 Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:46 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 09 January 2018 - 12:29 AM, said:

I was wondering myself - to be honest, I don't know why they didn't at least introduce the 4x20mm configuration of the Sabre. Sure it was a failure, but... well...

 

They could introduce the CAC Sabre used by the RAAF.  Roll Royce Avon powered with twin 30mm ADEN cannon.

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Zergling #15 Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:40 PM

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The F-86F-2 with 4x 20mm M39 wasn't a failure; it led to the adoption of that armament on the F-86H-5-NH onwards.

mnbv_fockewulfe #16 Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:55 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 08 January 2018 - 06:23 PM, said:

A very simple way to calculate the relative firepowers of different plants.

Time to kill/number of bullets that hit.

The larger to number, the better the firepower.

 

For example,

the F-86 has 480 dps.

I used to get around 18-20% accuracy when shooting with US mgs in 1.9, and MGs haven't changed much in 2.0 except for better accuracy and better muzzle velocity. So assume an extra 10% of bullets hit. They have a fire rate of 20 bullets\sec per gun. So for 1 sec of firing that's 120 bullets. Assume we're shooting at optimal range, and 30% of bullets hit a target with 600 health. That's 144 dps, which means we'll need 4.2 seconds on target if we forget bullet travel time. That means we used 504 bullets to destroy the target.

4.2s/504blts=0.0083

If we do the same thing for the Me-262 HGIII...

Assume 30% accuracy, optimum range, 600 health.

6 bullets/sec per gun. 350 dps per gun,

1.4 seconds to kill. 34 bullts used.

1.4/34=0.041

The Me 262 has better guns.


 


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vcharng #17 Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:34 AM

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View PostZergling, on 08 January 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

 

It looks like the German bomber guns multiply, which is making the issue even more confusing. WG needs to make those things consistent.

 

Really? I didn't see that on my 217M, where is this?

Zergling #18 Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:38 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 09 January 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

Really? I didn't see that on my 217M, where is this?

 

Look at the top turret; the first is a single MG-81J with 40 DPS, while the second is a twin MG-81J with 40 DPS. And 64 DPS for triple 13mm MG131 for the third top turret is way too low too.

 

Can also see it with the Ju 88 A; the bottom single MG-81J is 40 DPS, while the top and front both have 2x MG-81J with 40 DPS.

 

And the Do 17 Z; single MG 15s with 32 DPS, while 2x and 3x MG 15s still have 32 DPS.


Edited by Zergling, 09 January 2018 - 10:48 AM.


vcharng #19 Posted 09 January 2018 - 11:59 AM

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View PostZergling, on 09 January 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

 

Look at the top turret; the first is a single MG-81J with 40 DPS, while the second is a twin MG-81J with 40 DPS. And 64 DPS for triple 13mm MG131 for the third top turret is way too low too.

 

Can also see it with the Ju 88 A; the bottom single MG-81J is 40 DPS, while the top and front both have 2x MG-81J with 40 DPS.

 

And the Do 17 Z; single MG 15s with 32 DPS, while 2x and 3x MG 15s still have 32 DPS.

 

I think those are cases where the extra gun is used to expand the firing arc...

The Ju 88 A's front and top guns are facing different directions if you take a closer look, they don't fire at the same time. The front gun is used to expand the depression angle while the top is used to expand the firing arc.

The same applies for 217's "triple" top turret.



General_Lee_Miserable #20 Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:56 PM

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No matter which way you slice it, the .50 cal guns in T9/T10 are horrible. Sure, they can shred stuff, but you have to be in REALLY close to do so. 

 

The best high tier guns are the German 20's. 






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