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American P-51 line.... pretty awful


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Wombatmetal #21 Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:48 AM

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My new P51A with the skin from an Albion crate

 

 

Only 6 matches but I like this plane. I just outdueled an A6M5 in it at ground level. With proper tactics you can do well. It can easily take out Ju 88as and Do 217ms and has nice speed. I like my P47b too, but I feel I pull my own weight in the P51, unlike the P47.  Gudplane

 


Edited by Destroyer_Suzukaze, 12 January 2018 - 06:59 AM.


CamuMahubah #22 Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:13 AM

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Destroyer are you from Japan?

Wombatmetal #23 Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:35 AM

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View PostCamuMahubah, on 11 January 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

Destroyer are you from Japan?

 

No, but would like to live there 

Furysghost #24 Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:18 PM

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In my experience so far the Mustang guns are just simply too underwhelming out of the box.

They need a buff to their damage per second especially at close range and part of the problem is the shotgun/spray effect so either make them more accurate or buff the dps.

 

A Spitfire with 2x20mm and 2x50cal just shreds planes yet a 6x50cal Mustangs weight of fire was just .17 kg/sec. less and both planes carried these guns in roughly the same wing configuration.

So in game the effect of the two planes guns should be the same except for the 20mm range advantage.



Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #25 Posted 03 February 2018 - 08:56 AM

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Some thoughts; this was an aircraft line I never played in 1.9 past the Warhawk and intended to skip in 2.0 until I watched a bit of Braincage playing it on Twitch after he shot me down in a match.

Ground out fifty (50) battles with the tier VI P-51A, along with having played the tier VII P-51K (Chinese Nationalist) a few hours worth.

 

-> It is definitely worth unlocking all of the modules for the tier VI plane as the guns and some of the engines translate directly to the D model aircraft.

 

 

Pros:

- Although having only four (yes, 4x) cal .50s (the tier VII P51D also starts with this configuration) the plane does deal out a pretty good amount of damage, just not big single hit damage like with cannons.

- Guns are very forgiving of connection or FPS woes compared to cannons, not to mention easy to correctly lead, and can cause decent critical hits when running universal.

- Guns don't overheat unless you're trying to down a bomber, GAA, or in a sustained furball.

 

- Hard to stall out at any altitude, even with sustained use of full flaps & airbrake.

- Very good, long, boost (10s @ VI to 12s @ VII with tuning and Guru 1) & acceleration plus altitude capability provides a lot of flexibility.

- Maneuverability isn't that bad for a US aircraft, but not quite as good as the recently introduced Hurricanes & Tornado multirole fighters.

 

 

Cons:

- Even with the [Reinforced Control Surfaces] consumable catching the attention of a LaGG, Yak, Zero, or 'Spit will end badly; Bf109s can also out-turn the Mustang and climb with it.

- Absurd level of pilot hits right at the start of almost every dogfight, to the point I may drop the extinguisher for a first aid kit.

- Quite often fails to finish aircraft with under 10 health, which is typically because no critical damage was inflicted.

- Some kind of engine restarter consumable is almost mandatory.

 

- May have to avoid the airfield/airbase furballs depending on the red team plane mix.

- Expect to see a lot of Garrison capture areas on the typical for its tier map configurations.

- Takes a while to shoot things down, provided you can maneuver into range, especially versus heavy fighters making a BnZ pass.

- Need to have saved 20K free XP when purchasing the tier VII so as to mount six machine-guns instead of trying to play with just four versus tier VIII planes.

- Not always a high scoring aircraft, as it spends a lot of time chasing bombers or heavy fighters at altitude, but it is fast enough with enough health to roam for solo captures.

 

 

However, this plane is probably easier to figure out in game if the player has spent time flying some of the Fw 190s and/or Bf 109s; I found it a total shift in playstyle from any other US plane I'd tried out.


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 03 February 2018 - 09:23 AM.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

 

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Furysghost #26 Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:34 PM

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View PostSoylent_Red_Isnt_People, on 03 February 2018 - 12:56 AM, said:

Some thoughts; this was an aircraft line I never played in 1.9 past the Warhawk and intended to skip in 2.0 until I watched a bit of Braincage playing it on Twitch after he shot me down in a match.

Ground out fifty (50) battles with the tier VI P-51A, along with having played the tier VII P-51K (Chinese Nationalist) a few hours worth.

 

-> It is definitely worth unlocking all of the modules for the tier VI plane as the guns and some of the engines translate directly to the D model aircraft.

 

 

Pros:

- Although having only four (yes, 4x) cal .50s (the tier VII P51D also starts with this configuration) the plane does deal out a pretty good amount of damage, just not big single hit damage like with cannons.

- Guns are very forgiving of connection or FPS woes compared to cannons, not to mention easy to correctly lead, and can cause decent critical hits when running universal.

- Guns don't overheat unless you're trying to down a bomber, GAA, or in a sustained furball.

 

- Hard to stall out at any altitude, even with sustained use of full flaps & airbrake.

- Very good, long, boost (10s @ VI to 12s @ VII with tuning and Guru 1) & acceleration plus altitude capability provides a lot of flexibility.

- Maneuverability isn't that bad for a US aircraft, but not quite as good as the recently introduced Hurricanes & Tornado multirole fighters.

 

 

Cons:

- Even with the [Reinforced Control Surfaces] consumable catching the attention of a LaGG, Yak, Zero, or 'Spit will end badly; Bf109s can also out-turn the Mustang and climb with it.

- Absurd level of pilot hits right at the start of almost every dogfight, to the point I may drop the extinguisher for a first aid kit.

- Quite often fails to finish aircraft with under 10 health, which is typically because no critical damage was inflicted.

- Some kind of engine restarter consumable is almost mandatory.

 

- May have to avoid the airfield/airbase furballs depending on the red team plane mix.

- Expect to see a lot of Garrison capture areas on the typical for its tier map configurations.

- Takes a while to shoot things down, provided you can maneuver into range, especially versus heavy fighters making a BnZ pass.

- Need to have saved 20K free XP when purchasing the tier VII so as to mount six machine-guns instead of trying to play with just four versus tier VIII planes.

- Not always a high scoring aircraft, as it spends a lot of time chasing bombers or heavy fighters at altitude, but it is fast enough with enough health to roam for solo captures.

 

 

However, this plane is probably easier to figure out in game if the player has spent time flying some of the Fw 190s and/or Bf 109s; I found it a total shift in playstyle from any other US plane I'd tried out.

 

Spot on Soylent...

wscarter007 #27 Posted 04 February 2018 - 04:54 AM

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As others have stated it's not a great fighter to TnB, but can be rather fun.  The P51a is my fav of the 3 I have. 

Johnny_Wishbone #28 Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:10 PM

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Why anyone would TnB in a mustang is beyond me.  It's like doing autocross in a BMW M6.  Why?!?

FIight #29 Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:13 PM

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Even p51 is a TNB plane, it's still too weak: it's MGs just do not kill

as efficiently as any other fighters.

someone would say F-86 has better speed or altitude, and should 

use energy to fight a La-15 or Ki. I have to tell you that is not the 

case. The F-86 has similar rate of climb compared to those maneuverable

fighters and it does not accelerate much faster which makes those

maneuverable ones able to stay on its tail for a while. The altitude performance

only influences the engine thrust, and a good dogfighter in La-15 has no problem

bringing down F-86 at 3000m.

MG DPS really needs a buff, or at least give it cannons at top tier. You guys should not just

focus on stats, and instead you should play the mustang line, and compare it with

fighters in other nations. Without comparison your statement is pretty much meaningless, 

and every plane should have no problem in killing bots unless you really suck.



Cogent #30 Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:02 AM

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I just finished grinding the P-40 (it was mediocre, to say the least), and the P-51A is my first tier 6. Honestly, I'll probably only fly it to get my daily doubles, but that's about it. I get that the P-40 is deemed pretty mediocre during the war, but the P-51A just didn't get much better. I'll probably stick to Spitfire's and Yak's.



Tactical_Bandit #31 Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:53 AM

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View PostFurysghost, on 03 February 2018 - 06:34 PM, said:

 

Spot on Soylent...

 

​I concur with Furysghost...I have gone up against Soylent in a few battles, and his information is spot on.  

 

My 2 cents, yes the P-51s have low Alpha, but in my humble experience, what they don't have in Alpha they have in sustained fire.  The machine guns are very forgiving with long sustained bursts whereas the 20mm cannons will quickly overheat. Spend some credits, use the universal ammo...makes a big difference.  Also when you start getting pilot skills that match your equipment (flaps, etc.) it actually makes a pretty nimble aircraft.

 

Most of the players I have found that are having a hard time with it, are flying around in the base model and expecting much more.  The more you upgrade, the better the aircraft gets.

 

Lastly, Stay up at altitude where your advantage over the Spitfires and the Yaks evens the playing field....and I have not had many issues with any bombers even up high, the exception is the Russian RB and its nasty tail guns.

 

Happy Hunting.


Edited by Tactical_Bandit, 07 February 2018 - 09:01 AM.


FIight #32 Posted 07 February 2018 - 11:08 AM

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View PostTactical_Bandit, on 07 February 2018 - 03:53 AM, said:

 

​I concur with Furysghost...I have gone up against Soylent in a few battles, and his information is spot on.  

 

My 2 cents, yes the P-51s have low Alpha, but in my humble experience, what they don't have in Alpha they have in sustained fire.  The machine guns are very forgiving with long sustained bursts whereas the 20mm cannons will quickly overheat. Spend some credits, use the universal ammo...makes a big difference.  Also when you start getting pilot skills that match your equipment (flaps, etc.) it actually makes a pretty nimble aircraft.

 

Most of the players I have found that are having a hard time with it, are flying around in the base model and expecting much more.  The more you upgrade, the better the aircraft gets.

 

Lastly, Stay up at altitude where your advantage over the Spitfires and the Yaks evens the playing field....and I have not had many issues with any bombers even up high, the exception is the Russian RB and its nasty tail guns.

 

Happy Hunting.

 

20mm actually kills faster, just don't keep holding the mouse

Tactical_Bandit #33 Posted 07 February 2018 - 11:12 AM

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Absolutely cannons kills faster...they have longer range and much better Alpha.  Not disputing that fact at all.  All a few of us are saying is that the guns on the P51s are a bit more forgiving because it allows you much longer bursts/sustained fire versus the cannons.   Apparently according to the game designers that's the "fair" tradeoff.  Less Alpha, more sustained and continuous fire. 

SpiritFoxMY #34 Posted 08 February 2018 - 06:18 AM

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View PostTactical_Bandit, on 07 February 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

Absolutely cannons kills faster...they have longer range and much better Alpha.  Not disputing that fact at all.  All a few of us are saying is that the guns on the P51s are a bit more forgiving because it allows you much longer bursts/sustained fire versus the cannons.   Apparently according to the game designers that's the "fair" tradeoff.  Less Alpha, more sustained and continuous fire. 

 

It's probably fair up until about tier 5. But IMO by tier 7 its starting to wear thin. -51K can still kill bombers surprisingly fast but its less useful against violently maneuvering targets - the opposite end of the 30mm boomsticks

***

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For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Cenotaph #35 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:36 AM

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Tho I have a limited number of flights, so far I'm finding the P-51A quite capable, had an ace match in it just before the server reset.

 

Not sure why, but it feels like it pulls above its weight in all the other catagories enough to make up for the anemic nature of the MGs on most targets... but tail gunners can be it's bane.


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Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #36 Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:46 PM

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Agreed, the P-51A, -51D and -51K can all often deliver a game result you wouldn't expect from their tech tree statistics provided you do avoid taking on multiple bombers.& GAA at once.

That being said however color me VERY, VERY unimpressed with the Mustang-H at VIII - not only does it start with the same four machine-guns even going to the first six gun module is not much less anemic for its tier.

 

Not having good matches at all with the top Mustang, it just doesn't or can't do enough of what I need out of the plane to reliably contribute towards a match.


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 12 February 2018 - 06:50 PM.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

 

5801234590.png

 

''Under control? You're grabbing a f**king bazooka, you dumba**!''


ComradeZ #37 Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:26 AM

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The p-51 is a joy to fly. I'd rather tear out all my finger and toe nails than to continue the extremely garbage F4U line. The 51 is faster, turns better and is generally a boss fighter compared to that fat lumbering junkpile F4Us. Count your blessings with the 51. 

SpiritFoxMY #38 Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:33 AM

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I love the F4U. But I love the Focke Wulf even more XD

 

I only fly the P-51K so my experience is limited to that - its a really nice plane but the lack of firepower always annoys me


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #39 Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:18 PM

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Something mystifying to me is how the AI pilots in TA-152 planes, with less maneuverability than the H to the tune of one more second or so in a 360, are consistently out-turning it unless I manage to ambush them.

I've even had some do it when running the [reinforced control surfaces] consumable, so now I don't even bother with that anymore; my pilot has Acrobatics, Aerodynamics, Guru 1, and Battle Tested atm.


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 20 February 2018 - 08:19 PM.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

 

5801234590.png

 

''Under control? You're grabbing a f**king bazooka, you dumba**!''


Mojoe_Bailey #40 Posted 24 February 2018 - 06:34 PM

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What they need to do is buff all machine guns in this game. Give them a significantly higher damage per second and increase the overheat factor a little bit. That would make American planes way more usable in the current meta. Make machines guns do as well as they do in real life. There's a reason why we use things like the mini gun and gatling gun on certain aircraft. Those are high caliber, high dps machine guns that will outperform autocannons. Machine guns do just as well as cannons in their own way in reality. We just need the devs to realize that and make the necessary changes. Also, the devs should increase the y plane in this game to allow for more boom and zoom, like in 1.9. 




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