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Why do players want to fight the BIG AIR BATTLE


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cddlbunny #1 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:46 AM

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This is one thing that has gotten me from the start of the present campaign. Is that why do players want to fight the BIG AIR BATTLE  over a stupid three point of real estate like a bloody garrison? While you are tied up fighting over a worthless piece of territory, the other players on the other team are mopping up the stuff that counts. The name of the game is conquest. That means taking the valuable stuff away from the other team and keeping it while defending yours, not having a big air battle over a stupid garrison.

Taking an holding a mining plant when they come up gives you 80 additional points over a space of 2 minutes. Taking an airbase gives you the ability to repair your aircraft when needed. Taking a command centre calls in bombers to help you win the battle. Taking a stupid garrison gives you nothing but three measely points. Take time before the start of the match to see what high value targets area available. Having the protracted air battle over some stupid garrison helps you lose the game more than win and does not help your side at all. If players are in doubt of what is important read the guide or Ghost Prime forum thing on point structure. Yes in some games that is all there is, but in the ones with the stuff that counts at least get it. In one game there was two airbases and where did the team go? The bloody garrison.


Edited by cddlbunny0, 06 January 2018 - 10:53 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:59 AM

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Actually, the problem is more likely NONE of your human players are going to the cap and the bots are just failing to nail the two or so ADFs to claim the cap. Bot management is a key part of the game. 

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cddlbunny #3 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:43 AM

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True, but if there is a human player that goes to the garrison then the bots follow. IN the chat that I have seen in game, that is the first place that a human player will go to because they think that controlling it will give them an advantage. What advantage?

SpiritFoxMY #4 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:53 AM

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Depends on map really, and how confident those guys are going in. But usually you're right - doesn't make a lot of sense charging into a furball over a garrison.

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CamuMahubah #5 Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:50 PM

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We've been throwing rocks and slangin' sticks at each other for something close to 4 million years...

 

You ain't gonna change that overnight...you just cain't...

 

Humans will push for the easiest fight once we see we are down...and our bots...they chase bombers and such...

 

Bot management is difficult and I've been failing at it tremendously. 

 

I've played against some high WR players that do it at higher tiers and one thing I notice is they cap and run and never defend a cap.  Weird thing was is they weren't herding their bots in fashion that I could see...yah they were playing GA.

 

It's world of GA at higher tiers.  And I cain't stop them because they got tail guns for days....



Izgoy0899 #6 Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:05 PM

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Had my first loss in Skies of Albion today to an entire red team of nothing but bots and no human players at all, because my team felt that an airfield was more important than a military base.  I didn't even think this was possible. 

cddlbunny #7 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:13 PM

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View Postmedoyehd, on 06 January 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

Had my first loss in Skies of Albion today to an entire red team of nothing but bots and no human players at all, because my team felt that an airfield was more important than a military base.  I didn't even think this was possible. 

 

​We are both in the same boat and I know how you feel. Forward airstrip allow you to change planes at least. SO there is some value in that even at the lower tiers. Use Crl+left mouse to indicate on the map in the corner. Hopefully, some of your team even the bots will get the memo and come and help.

Edited by cddlbunny0, 06 January 2018 - 02:25 PM.


cddlbunny #8 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:18 PM

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View PostCamuMahubah, on 06 January 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

We've been throwing rocks and slangin' sticks at each other for something close to 4 million years...

 

You ain't gonna change that overnight...you just cain't...

 

Humans will push for the easiest fight once we see we are down...and our bots...they chase bombers and such...

 

Bot management is difficult and I've been failing at it tremendously. 

 

I've played against some high WR players that do it at higher tiers and one thing I notice is they cap and run and never defend a cap.  Weird thing was is they weren't herding their bots in fashion that I could see...yah they were playing GA.

 

It's world of GA at higher tiers.  And I cain't stop them because they got tail guns for days....

 

​WR players at the higher tiers take advantage of going where there is little or no opposition. They know once the areas captured is locked and gone over to them, there is no use is hanging around and go and capture what needs to be captured. GA players think that they are flying a tank/fighter and use the advantage of the hit pool and the larger caliber guns.. Yes, I aced a Stuka in the last iteration when it was five and I did it with the 37mm guns. You have to go and figure out a way to get them. If the turret is movable, it makes it interesting to say the least. Get them from underneath or if they in a climb to in the turn. You will figure out what works for you,

Edited by cddlbunny0, 06 January 2018 - 02:27 PM.


HairyAmbush #9 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

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Sure wish I had known all these idiots on my team were bots.  This was driving me crazy.  Why is everyone going to the middle sector?  And then they keep going back to the middle over and over again when there are all these undefended sectors.

 

They need to reprogrammed these bots and come up with better names than "Todd"  "Jerry"

 

Or have  a bg with no sectors and just a free for all which is what they want.



cddlbunny #10 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:31 PM

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They are programmed to so that if they are bots. If you are the only human player go where you need to go and the bots will follow. Some of them anyway. It is the nature of the game and has not changed from the last iteration. Look at it this way. If they are all going for the middle there is less of them to interfere with what you need to take, especially the ADF and the flak which is a different matter. click on the target you are going to before the festivities begin. I am not an expert on this game, but these are some of the things that are pitfalls for new players and the old guard from the last iteration as well. 

Edited by cddlbunny0, 06 January 2018 - 02:34 PM.


Mercsn #11 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:49 PM

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Bots don't follow humans. They are hard coded to attack certain sector types based on what class they are.

 

A guy did a youtube vid explaining their priorities based on lots of training room match observation. 

 

The bots have bad teamwork and map strat programming.  

 

Unfortunately, players learn bad habits from the bots, such as trickling into mid to get slaughtered or dog piling mid while giving up everything else.


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Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

SpiritFoxMY #12 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:01 PM

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I think the distinction between poor and good players is knowing where to go where they'll do the most good. Defending is rarely a good idea because you can only defend one spot at a time: better that you keep attacking to force your opponent to react to you and keep ahead. That's where grabbing easy Garrisons can be useful because you can cap them so fast - hopefully faster than your opponent can recap.

 

Anyway I'm not a good player - merely an average one. I'm still learning to push the caps successfully on a more regular basis  


***

But a truce to this mournful story

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And a laurel to crown each end


wylleEcoyote #13 Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:08 PM

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here and i thought it was people liking to dogfight.

Because if you're in a fighter and rush to the central cap (And lock it in); then you can spend the rest of the fight turning and burning in that one sector.
Splashing as many reds as you can. (especially if they filter in 1 or 2 at a time) All while enjoying a nice heal every so often.

Aerial kills while defending sector? stay alive the whole time ?  12k xp and Fighter Grade 1 
Spend the whole match turning and burning going from one adrenaline rush to the next

And when you still wind up with a loss its the rest of your teams fault
for not doing the lowly work of ground attack and actually taking the other sectors.

of course if they are really as good as these stats say they are, capping the other zones should be a breeze.
What with Mr. hotshot Fighter Pilot personally keeping half the enemy team in the hanger at any one time

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Conal_Cochran #14 Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:19 PM

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I think it's a lot simpler than that...most just want to dogfight and don't care about winning zones no matter what they are. Its why they need a deathmatch mode. They come to a bunch of planes and want to dogfight...its that simple.  Garrison, air strip etc doesnt matter to many players,  dont expect it to change. 

LMG #15 Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:13 PM

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View PostCamuMahubah, on 06 January 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

We've been throwing rocks and slangin' sticks at each other for something close to 4 million years...

 

You ain't gonna change that overnight...you just cain't...

 

Humans will push for the easiest fight once we see we are down...and our bots...they chase bombers and such...

 

Bot management is difficult and I've been failing at it tremendously. 

 

I've played against some high WR players that do it at higher tiers and one thing I notice is they cap and run and never defend a cap.  Weird thing was is they weren't herding their bots in fashion that I could see...yah they were playing GA.

 

It's world of GA at higher tiers.  And I cain't stop them because they got tail guns for days....

 

To be honest, most GAAs have a hard time defending a cap outside of taking potshots at fighters chasing allies, playing mobile turret with the tailgun or shooting down bot GAAs. WG is very strict about the "attack" part as we've seen over the years. And yes, the best way to "herd" fighter bots is to capture whatever sector they're currently stuck in (aka, if they're chasing Bombing Runs, get the Command Center and they'll go for the next closest target), which just so happens to be a GAA's job anyways.

 

In higher tiers GAAs thrive because of a couple of reasons outside of their improved weaponry: GAAs are quite far down the bots' "must-kill" list, so if they see an enemy fighter they'll leave me alone, and high-tier bot fighters fly very high up (2.5k-3k meters on a regular basis), so they can't really see low-flying GAAs, and apparently WG knew this, which is why high-tier GAA bots tend to fly higher than normal, even when there's no obstacles :sceptic:. Aside of that, unlike what I've heard of some fighter lines, GAAs tend to always become better as tiers go higher, so players are always rewarded with a more capable plane once it's fully upgraded, which in turn makes them want to keep on going. The one reason I got my Me 329 was because I didn't like the two permanent 20s on my Me 265, but I also got more speed, health and a better tailgunner to boot :great:. It makes me curious about the next one and it's 50mm cannon, but I think I'll stay in tier VIII for now


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Mercsn #16 Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:43 PM

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View PostConal_Cochran, on 06 January 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

I think it's a lot simpler than that...most just want to dogfight and don't care about winning zones no matter what they are. Its why they need a deathmatch mode. They come to a bunch of planes and want to dogfight...its that simple.  Garrison, air strip etc doesnt matter to many players,  dont expect it to change. 

 

This is why I find the complaints of "it's too easy now because of respawn!" to be doubly stupid.  Players actually have to figure out where to go and when to go there instead of just easymode chase plane, shoot plane, win. 

 

 


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All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

mnbv_fockewulfe #17 Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:33 PM

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The game should reward playing the objective and survivability (as in real life and the previous game). The problem with the old mode was that there was only one objective (pretty much). The problem with the new is survivability is not a factor.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


pyantoryng #18 Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:41 PM

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The problem is, the EXP payout system actually encourages dying to earn more, albeit subtly. Should've just make those milestones roll over when they are completed... Then there is the matter of tactical death...

 

...and LMG, the 1099B-2's 50mm does not disappoint, that I'm regretting using the EXP that could've gone towards the tier 10 on the MK 103 now.

 



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Mercsn #19 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:54 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 06 January 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

The game should reward playing the objective and survivability (as in real life and the previous game). The problem with the old mode was that there was only one objective (pretty much). The problem with the new is survivability is not a factor.

 

They really do need some "supply line" stat that is used up each time a player respawns.  If your team runs out of supply, game over. And, at certain thresholds, respawn time could increase on a team level. This would both encourage "survival" or self-preservation minded play as well as discourage currently legitimate tactical deaths to quickly reposition or get a fresh plane pre-squall. 

 

Persha has had 2 vacancies open for five years, as far as I can see:  Lead Game Designer and Common Sense Analyst. 


Edited by Mercsn, 06 January 2018 - 10:57 PM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

LMG #20 Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:11 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 06 January 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

They really do need some "supply line" stat that is used up each time a player respawns.  If your team runs out of supply, game over. And, at certain thresholds, respawn time could increase on a team level. This would both encourage "survival" or self-preservation minded play as well as discourage currently legitimate tactical deaths to quickly reposition or get a fresh plane pre-squall. 

 

Persha has had 2 vacancies open for five years, as far as I can see:  Lead Game Designer and Common Sense Analyst. 

 

Idk, personally I'd rather not lose simply because my bots kept dying to players while I cap the rest of the map single-handedly. I prefer the squal line = one respawn idea or adding some sort of repair method outside of Airbases, which I believe WG said they were looking into


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