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FW 109 A-1 Woes


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Wombatmetal #41 Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:58 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 16 January 2018 - 05:30 PM, said:

I think the Yak multiroles are just made for head-on passing and bushwhacking the unaware. I had a guy in a 9U repeatedly murder me (ok, twice) in my Batplane because I underestimated how much damage he could do in one pass

 

Once you learn the gun, you snipe. 

 

Like taking down this bomber while outside his gunner range. Once you can hit with the gun, life gets much better. Using the Stuka 37s was a good introduction. I like to be on the outside of furballs shooting in. Japanese planes come apart.

 

MM1&MM2 along with sights helps a lot. (only had sights here)

 



Captain_Rownd #42 Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:22 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 17 January 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

 

Everything else you're better off just taking potshots at enemy aircraft as the go sailing by.

 

  Unfortunately with the Yak-7 being slow it can't take advantage of opportunities and usually becomes an XP pinata as soon as it's noticed.  The AA is at least something that won't turn onto my tail and ROFLstomp me.  :D  And I hate it when the AA shreds my other planes, so it seems like a contribution.  Otherwise I'm either diving on attack planes or boosting up into the bellies of heavies flying between caps. 

Captain_Rownd #43 Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:49 AM

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View PostLMG, on 17 January 2018 - 12:48 AM, said:

 

37mm cannon

 

:ohmy:  ...that...feels like clubbing baby seals...

 

FIRE THE BROADSIDE!  :izmena:

 



trikke #44 Posted 18 January 2018 - 02:27 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 15 January 2018 - 05:38 AM, said

Last 4 games in MiG-3 I've been #1 on the team, and just before that I was struggling with the American and German fighters

 

i struggle with US and German LFs, but run the table in Russians, and i'm an admitted bad pilot

 

that's just how the game was designed 

 

i always thought that WG's actual real game plan was for all of us to get tired of flying soviets lights and then try something harder

 

then make that decision... to go big or go home


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

Mercsn #45 Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:48 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 16 January 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

 

  Unfortunately with the Yak-7 being slow it can't take advantage of opportunities and usually becomes an XP pinata as soon as it's noticed.  The AA is at least something that won't turn onto my tail and ROFLstomp me.  :D  And I hate it when the AA shreds my other planes, so it seems like a contribution.  Otherwise I'm either diving on attack planes or boosting up into the bellies of heavies flying between caps.

 

The AA gun might not turn onto your tail, but even a defense bot can shred you while you're flying straight, level, and probably throttled back.  When you die from making yourself easy pickings, you give the enemy more points than you scored.


 

If you want to see what happens when you attack AA guns (Especially if you're the first plane in, follow the link in this post for a short youtube clip.  Also, there's some indepth explanation on why you don't want to attack ground targets with fighters in the first post in that same thread, here.).


 

You like attacking GA.  Using a fighter in ground attack role is like flying a GA with less armor, hitpoints, and higher stall speed (so enemies are less likely to overshoot your plane before killing you).  If you want to shoot AA guns or otherwise attack ground targets, use a GA or bomber.  (Also, a note on GA, their forward firing weapon damage is NOT nerfed vs aerial targets.  They just receive zero aim-assist bonus.  If a player can aim, they can still very easily kill planes with those powerful guns).


 

In all fairness, I used my LaGG-3 as a GA back when it was absolutely terrible to fly and had 37mm nose gun and rockets.   BUT, I was flighted with someone who was air to air AND the game mode at that time had single item ground targets, no armored targets (or none that the 37mm couldn't kill), AND every ground target kill was useful because it kept the enemy team from victory on score (something like if you could prevent a superiority loss by killing a single item ground target).


 

Now, in 2.0, if you feel a need to shoot AA guns, you're in the wrong plane or using the wrong tactics.

 

If AA is killing you, learn how the AA works  and adjust.  AA (triangle icon) shoot at lower aircraft.  Multiple guns can engage a single aircraft.  If you are the first plan into a neutral or red zone, every AA gun will open up on you.  If there are multiple targets, the AA will not focus on one aircraft.   In a neutral zone, both teams are valid targets.  So, if you let you bots go in first, they will draw fire from the AA instead of you.


 

Flak (triangle with a square base) choose targets the same way, but only shoot at medium to higher altitude targets.

 

Basically, following your bots, as though you are a professional grade cat-herder has several benefits.  One is letting them eat the AA/flak for you. Another is the enemy planes also engage them first.  It's easier to shoot a plane off your teammates than to get them to shoot enemies off you.  And, if there are enemy humans who, like me, target other humans as priority, if you're at the back of a clump of bots, i have to deal with them (or let my bots engage them) before getting to you. This gives you the opportunity to get some damage or kills in before that human finds you and it's possible he may become preoccupied if he gets engaged by your bots.

 

 


Edited by Mercsn, 20 January 2018 - 07:57 AM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Mercsn #46 Posted 20 January 2018 - 08:16 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 16 January 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

 

The problem with hitting AA as Mercsn has pointed out repeatedly (and forcefully in his newcomers thread) is that the Cap value vs Risk and Investment just isn't worth it as a primary task. AA suppression is only really valuable over rocket bases which are bristling with them. Everything else you're better off just taking potshots at enemy aircraft as the go sailing by.

 

:honoring::great:

 


 

I know that some of you guys argue with the blanket statement I make that fighters (any class if "fighter" be it HF, MR, or light "fighter") shouldn't attack ground targets.  However, THIS is the type of player I made THAT thread for.  While several of you guys list valid reasons where ordnance or ground attack from fighters can be beneficial, there's just no simple list of valid occasions you can give a newer player.  AND, attacking AA guns "because it feels like I'm doing something" is not a valid reason...unless the player is RP'ing (role-playing) some historical mission with himself in a match instead of a training room.


 

OP, this isn't a slight or insult to you.  It's just that you don't realize how detrimental to your own play as well as your team's chances of success it is for you to shoot at anything but aircraft 99% of the time with a fighter (any class of fighter that isn't a GA or bomber).


 

If you like the turn-fighting style of play, but want decent speed and strong firepower, I'd recommend the La-5.  It's very powerful in it's tier.  The guns being in the nose and of the same caliber make it very easy to hit while leading (once you learn the lead distance and how long you can hold the trigger before needing to let up to avoid hitting the red overheat zone -the guns cool much quicker if they do not reach the overheat stage).  The La-5 will not out-turn a Spitfire, Zero, or Yak-1, but it will shred all of them quickly if you get first shot.  It can operate high enough that a zero may never notice you if you don't want him to and you can reach bot bombers.  It is fast enough that it can keep it's guns on an escaping HF or MR (and the cannons have awesome range, further extending time to hopefully get an engine crit to slow them down).  And, it's maneuverable enough that if you dance (and pop a turning consumable) while smashing F7, you may survive an attack by a Spitfire or Zero that gets the drop on you, if your teammates (players or bots) respond or if your attacker is a bot and they're ai tells them to look for an easier target.  The Yak-1, while more maneuverable, will probably just plink at you with the .50 cal while his cannon is on perma-overheat and eventually he'll get bored or killed.  Plus, you are a turn fighter compared to anything that isn't a Spitfire, Zero, or Yak-1. 


 

Also, if you like the La-5, the 7 and 9 are more of the same.  The guns get more powerful as the teirs go up (so it doesn't lose "effective" firepower like some lines, a couple of the spits and the US planes stuck with tier4 guns)and the La-7 and 9 maintain the La-5's other beneficial characteristics.


 

Worst case scenario, you're a Spitfire pilot.  It's a good looking plane and fun to play.  There's nothing wrong with going "easy-mode", if it makes the game enjoyable and allows you to be a productive member of your team!


 

If you think you might like shooting up AA guns as hobby, but don't like the low speed of typical ground attack craft, invest in the A-26.  It's a great multi-role, super-heavy fighter, bomber, attack aircraft, and (even) fighter, if you consider a "fighter" something that can shoot backwards at other fighters.  And, since it has premium plane credit earnings bonus, it's great fun for when you need to farm some currency to buy aircraft, upgrades, consumables, pilot retraining, etc.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Captain_Rownd #47 Posted 20 January 2018 - 04:53 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 20 January 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

 

The AA gun might not turn onto your tail, but even a defense bot can shred you while you're flying straight, level, and probably throttled back.  When you die from making yourself easy pickings, you give the enemy more points than you scored.

 

I'm talking about mining plants and missile bases that don't have AI fighters protecting them.  There is no flying straight, since it only takes a short burst to take out the AA gun, and then a quick nose up and back down while turning to the next one.  If there are enemies to run away from, then I run away from them. 

 

Trying to fly one of these as a "fighter" is what makes it "easy pickings", and it spends most of its time running away not contributing while multiple enemies burn off its hit points for free LOL.  Neither of them can fly up and chase high altitude planes as an alternative.  They are just XP pinatas for real fighters. 

 

I play the tech trees to unlock and try everything, and play for the daily first win bonus XP, so the worse I am in a plane/ship/tank the longer I play it.  I don't pick vehicles by "play-style" until I have all the daily bonuses, and don't care about win rates or stats.  

 

 

 



Mercsn #48 Posted 20 January 2018 - 05:16 PM

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Lol. It sounds like you don't care about fun either!   There's no bonus for unlocking everything.  Flying something you don't like and aren't good in is going to yield bad xp even with a daily double. Fly what you enjoy!  But, too each, his own.

 

 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Captain_Rownd #49 Posted 20 January 2018 - 05:26 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 20 January 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

Lol. It sounds like you don't care about fun either!   There's no bonus for unlocking everything.  Flying something you don't like and aren't good in is going to yield bad xp even with a daily double. Fly what you enjoy!  But, too each, his own.

 

 

 

I enjoy trying everything.  That is its own bonus.  Would I still be playing if I wasn't having fun?  (which is why I stopped playing ground attack planes for now) 

Edited by Captain_Rownd, 20 January 2018 - 05:27 PM.


Dru83 #50 Posted 21 January 2018 - 02:53 AM

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Captain Rownd said:

I'm talking about mining plants and missile bases that don't have AI fighters protecting them.

 

The main goal with these bases is to flip them quickly so you don't get shot at by the AA guns. Taking out a single AA gun and not the whole AA gun emplacement doesn't do any thing towards capturing the point. Light fighters and multi-roles should only fly to a mining plant or missile base if there are enemy planes flying over the base for them to shoot down. Destroying AA guns is something I do when I have a break in the battle where there are no planes nearby and the AA guns are going to destroy my plane. Or, it's something I do while diving on a plane and then as I pull out, I'll drop my bombs too. WOWP 2.0 is about capturing and defending cap areas. Nothing else matters. In the time you pop 3-4 AA guns at a mine (which isn't all the guns there btw) you could have downed 3 planes and flipped a garrison or airfield.


 

In the Fw-190s, I might do a dive on an enemy plane, shoot him to bits, take a couple snap shots at other planes in my way, then drop all my bombs on a convenient target. I drop ALL my bombs at once to start the reload and to ensure the target is destroyed. A half destroyed target does not count. Only destroyed targets help towards capturing the cap point. Overkill is good. After my ordnance is gone, I then fly straight and level or in a very shallow climb away from the battle. When I'm clear and ready, I climb up to the beginning of the yellow altitude band and then dive through the cap area again.


 

In the Yak-7, you are the clean-up crew. You get the table scraps of the high flying planes. Anything that flies too low is your target. Look for planes that are out of energy (speed+altitude = energy) so they can't speed away. The Yak-7 can out turn anything that's not a Spit, Japanese plane, or Yak-1. Get on their tail, get close, and let loose with the 37. The Yak-7's 37mm is easiest to aim when you are right behind someone or in a head on pass. Use the 37mm as a sniper. Single shots until you have a perfect shot, then give it all you've got. If there are AA guns that are annoying you, by all means, take 1 second to either salvo ALL rockets to destroy the target to contribute to taking the cap or to pop the guns with 2 rockets a piece. But, do not spend time trying to shoot them with your guns. It's not worth it. Air targets are worth way more. The best way to silence AA guns is to control the cap point. Don't try to out run enemies in a Yak-7... It's too slow. Don't try to fight on the vertical either... it's easy to stall out if you get too high. If you stall, you're easy pickings for anybody. The Yak-7 can turn and burn and quickly blow planes out of the sky don't waste time pretending you're an attack aircraft.


 

I only attack AA guns when there are only 2-3 guns, so only at garrisons and airfields. If there's a few guns, you can quickly turn all the guns off with your rockets. If there's more than 3 AA guns, it's quicker to stop them by flipping the cap. Stick to your plane's strength. Multi-roles are for quick, surgical strikes to one target in an attempt to flip the cap. Not to wallow around and get shot up while you maybe get a couple guns out of the way.


 

Fighters and Multi-roles should be focusing on airbases, airfields, and garrisons, unless there are a ton of enemy planes overhead. They can take out the planes at a command center or rocket base and then move on to another cap. But, they should not stick around at a cap shooting up AA guns when then could be downing planes to take another cap.
 


 

There's two schools of thought around here. Mercsn is all for saying go after planes only unless you're flying a bomber or attack plane. This is the easy way to keep yourself out of trouble. Sometimes, you can be a little more effective by carefully using your ordnance to help flip the cap or to take out all the AA guns at a garrison or airfield. This is a trickier way that can be slightly more effective, but can get you shot up or crashed into the ground if you're not careful. Stick to your plane's strengths and watch your six!
 

 

 

 

 


 


 


 


 


 



Captain_Rownd #51 Posted 21 January 2018 - 04:50 PM

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View PostDru83, on 21 January 2018 - 02:53 AM, said:

 In the time you pop 3-4 AA guns at a mine (which isn't all the guns there btw) you could have downed 3 planes and flipped a garrison or airfield.

 

Not in these planes I can't. Flying these into a garrison or airfield cap is suicidal.

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 21 January 2018 - 04:55 PM.


Sierra1968 #52 Posted 28 January 2018 - 03:36 PM

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The FW 190 series is boom and zoom with bombs/rockets to be used situationally.  It has very powerful guns, and is excellent at taking out bomber formations.  In fact, that is probably what it's best at.  It is a tough plane to master, because of its learning curve.

Captain_Rownd #53 Posted 28 January 2018 - 04:43 PM

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View PostSierra1968, on 28 January 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

The FW 190 series is boom and zoom with bombs/rockets to be used situationally.  It has very powerful guns, and is excellent at taking out bomber formations.  In fact, that is probably what it's best at.  It is a tough plane to master, because of its learning curve.

 

FW 190 A-1 can't fly that high. 

 



SpiritFoxMY #54 Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:17 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 28 January 2018 - 04:43 PM, said:

 

FW 190 A-1 can't fly that high. 

 

 

Bomber formations don't fly that high either. Anyway, most people who talk about the FWs tend to talk about the nigh OP A-5 and the terrifyingly-good-at-almost everything Dora. A-1 is the runt of the litter although, as I said, I had fun in it either way and it was a good primer to the later line.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


mnbv_fockewulfe #55 Posted 28 January 2018 - 07:17 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 28 January 2018 - 05:17 PM, said:

 

Bomber formations don't fly that high either. Anyway, most people who talk about the FWs tend to talk about the nigh OP A-5 and the terrifyingly-good-at-almost everything Dora. A-1 is the runt of the litter although, as I said, I had fun in it either way and it was a good primer to the later line.

 

The Dora isn't as good as she used to be. :(

Atleast there is finally a point to mounting the 30mm.

As far as I can tell, all guns on the same plane regardless of caliber have the same muzzle velocity.

And they no longer impact performance.


 

 


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


Captain_Rownd #56 Posted 28 January 2018 - 11:55 PM

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I'm sure I'll fly the stupid FW 190 this evening because I spent a couple weekends on the Yaks.

SpiritFoxMY #57 Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:51 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 28 January 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

 

The Dora isn't as good as she used to be. :(

Atleast there is finally a point to mounting the 30mm.

As far as I can tell, all guns on the same plane regardless of caliber have the same muzzle velocity.

And they no longer impact performance.


 

 

 

Dora must've been glorious then, because she's a really good plane now. I am neutral about the 30mms - they are what make her as effective as she is in ground attack but they are at best a sidegrade from the 20mms in air combat because while their muzzle velocity might be the same, their ballistics aren't so hitting a fighter with all three weapon sizes (13,20,30) is quite a challenge.

***

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So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


SpiritFoxMY #58 Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:52 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 28 January 2018 - 11:55 PM, said:

I'm sure I'll fly the stupid FW 190 this evening because I spent a couple weekends on the Yaks.

 

Don't force yourself :p I'm happy being one of the rare Focke Wulf pilots around. Just nailed a 13k CP game in the A-5 last night

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Captain_Rownd #59 Posted 29 January 2018 - 01:08 AM

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I don't learn anything when it's easy, and even things learned when it's not easy can be applied in easier situations. 

 



SpiritFoxMY #60 Posted 29 January 2018 - 01:19 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 29 January 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

I don't learn anything when it's easy, and even things learned when it's not easy can be applied in easier situations. 

 

 

:honoring: Go get em' tiger!

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end





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