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FW 109 A-1 Woes


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Captain_Rownd #1 Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:15 AM

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I don't understand how to survive in this plane.  It can't turn and can't go very high, and stalls VERY easily. I'm an easy kill for any weak plane that notices me, not to mention AA has an easy time shredding it as well.  Good guns are useless when the enemy is always behind you, and if you run away to let the boost regenerate you're basically surrendering.  Like the quote from the movie "The only way to win, is not to play."  Or, is this plane an early April Fools joke?  ;)

SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:21 AM

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You can check out the first page of my thread where I ask the same question: http://forum.worldof...ons-and-advice/

 

The Fw 190 A-1 should never get into a close-in turning fight, at best, you use long sweeping boost turns in a one-on-one which you find you cannot escape. But in that case the odds are low of you surviving anyway. I find that the best way to use a Focke Wulf is to pick off people who get too far out of the death ball chasing their targets, or picking out a target when no one is looking or too busy with their own business. When in trouble, go wings level and boost out of the area.

 

With regards to boost, the best way around that is to simply fit the Improved Radiator upgrade which increases boost regeneration by 30% when the engine is idle. My typical attack pattern is to boom in, pick off one or two opponents then boost out of the fight (keeping one eye on the rear view mirror to see if anyone is chasing).

 

Once you're sure no one is following, pull yourself up into a long, sweeping Immelmann turn for altitude and reposition yourself for another pass. When diving down, drop flaps, idle your throttle and let the dive itself accelerate you towards your prey. That way you recharge your boost for the escape AND you make it easier to hit and follow your target as he tries to dodge. You just have to keep an eye on your speed to make sure you don't let it drop to dangerous levels.


***

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gerr22 #3 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:36 AM

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i use them against high alt flyers and bombers boom & zoom

SpiritFoxMY #4 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:46 AM

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View Postgerr22, on 06 January 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

i use them against high alt flyers and bombers boom & zoom

 

The Focke Wulf 190 A-1 isn't really a high flyer with an altitude cap of 1200. It works in a pinch but it isn't really at its best staying up there.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Mercsn #5 Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:09 PM

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The Fw line seems to be a thing where either you "get it" or you don't.  The A5 is one of my most flown aircraft.  Even, I don't "get it" and am not very successful with it.

 

But, it's a beautiful aircraft. That's the only reason I fly it.  

 

There are a couple guys who I've seen do very well with it. One racked up a 20k game  (and I was even hunting him when I saw him making score). I flighted with a guy in an A1 or A5 (forget which) who did an amazing job of surviving in a zone with so many red dots I had to keep glancing at the scoreboard to see if he was still alive because the red dots obscured his yellow dot.

 

Some people just have an afinity for that line. You might try a search and see if you can find other fw 190 threads, even complaint threads as someone who is good with it may have posted more tidbits you can use.

 

If it's not fun for you, just fly something else. Unlike the Spitfire, the FW190 line just isn't for everyone. 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Captain_Rownd #6 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:12 PM

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In a reasonably manouverable plane I can keep my guns firing as long as there are targets to turn towards, being part of the battle.  A plane like this that can't turn seems to spend most of its time away from the action trying not to die, rarely firing its guns, which would seem guaranteed to be less effective and a drag on the team.  Less engagement with enemy, low overall DPM, less contribution.  I'm wondering if there's any reason to try beyond being stubborn. 

 

I feel bad for all the teams that have been losing while I've tried to get enough XP to make it through this plane, which takes a while with the long string of losses. I wonder if the used plane salesman was chuckling as I drove this lemon off the lot. 

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 06 January 2018 - 09:14 PM.


Captain_Rownd #7 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:14 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 06 January 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

You can check out the first page of my thread where I ask the same question: http://forum.worldof...ons-and-advice/

 

thanks!

Wombatmetal #8 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:15 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 06 January 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

The Fw line seems to be a thing where either you "get it" or you don't.  The A5 is one of my most flown aircraft.  Even, I don't "get it" and am not very successful with it.

 

But, it's a beautiful aircraft. That's the only reason I fly it.  

 

There are a couple guys who I've seen do very well with it. One racked up a 20k game  (and I was even hunting him when I saw him making score). I flighted with a guy in an A1 or A5 (forget which) who did an amazing job of surviving in a zone with so many red dots I had to keep glancing at the scoreboard to see if he was still alive because the red dots obscured his yellow dot.

 

Some people just have an afinity for that line. You might try a search and see if you can find other fw 190 threads, even complaint threads as someone who is good with it may have posted more tidbits you can use.

 

If it's not fun for you, just fly something else. Unlike the Spitfire, the FW190 line just isn't for everyone. 

 

I believe that was me in an A1

 

Think of yourself as a mini heavy fighter. Speed is your weapon. Attack planes on the edges of the furball, look for planes moving towards or away from you for targets, roll before you turn. Don't turn and pursue.  Even if no one is around make it a habit to gain altitude and flip over. 

 

This is from the thread "need some pointers". Works for the A1 too. Some of it doesn't apply as the game has changed, but good stuff nonetheless

 

View PostArrowZ_, on 05 April 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

If you want an advice in list form here you go (Fw190a5):

 

DOs - 

 

  • Always start your climb at 45-50 deg angle half-boost. Lower your nose after that and ride your airspeed in the bright green band until you reach RED altitude zone (recommended alt for the Fw190 a-5 is 3000m, if you go higher you will slow down and be an easy target especially on turns)
  • Always save boost in case you get jumped or are unaware of enemy tail as an escape option. 
  • On attack runs, always make sure your speed is high (upper dark green band), gun range is close to enemy (500-400m) then unload all you got.
  • After attack runs, zoom away in a horizontal fashion with a slight climb angle. Depending on how much altitude you gained initially, you can exchange for speed during dive runs. The greater the altitude at the start of the match, the better your boom N' zoom capabilities.
  • In BnZ playstyle always exchange altitude for speed, then altitude then speed vice versa. This is called energy fighting or manipulating your plane's energy retention by sacrificing a little altitude for speed and regaining altitude from surplus speed in a dive etc. Requires practice.
  • Pro tip: Fw190a5 (pretty much the whole line up to t10) bleeds airspeed at a much slower rate than other BnZ type planes (multi/light fighter role anyway). Use this to your advantage when energy fighting or zooming away out of gun range.
  • Pro tip#2: Fw190a5 has a pretty damn good roll rate. Great for evading. Use it to survive.
  • Pro tip#3: The Fw190s are like a miniature heavies but slightly maneuvrable and with lesser firepower. So the playstyle is very similar. Understanding this will give you an advantage to most out there flying their Fw190.

 

Now to the DONTs:

 

  • DO NOT TURN horizontally in a Fw190a5. You will expose your fuselage, pilot and wings & will put a greater risk of crit damage. If you are going to turn do it in a vertical fashion employing a slight "Hammerhead" technique (if you don't know what that is easily searchable in google with pics)
  • DO NOT TURN while in low airspeed (dark green band). You'll be an easy target and an easy kill for most t6 enemy planes.
  • Boost is life for the Fw190a5. If you use it all up, you're a dead fw190a5. Use it sparingly and in certain situations to your advantage.
  • When evading with or without boost in a horizontal fashion, always watch your airspeed. You're no good if you're evading with low airspeed. The Fw190a5 excells at being nimble when its at its most optimum airspeed which is in between the upper bright green band reaching the darker green band.
  • Don't give up all your speed for altitude at the beginning of the match. You will fall behind and be a hindrance to your team. The fw190a5 has one of the most powerful guns in t6 and can rival even the t7 planes if played right. Position yourself well in the mass and make sure your airspeed is always in the optimum so you can engage at the right time to really put some hurt on the enemy.
  • Don't go head on with heavies or GAs. You might think your big guns might be able to take it but don't. Survival is key to the fw190. Sure there are some LF/MRF with lesser firepower that you can chew up face to face but majority of the time I wouldn't recommend it.
  • Don't mix with the furball dogfights and start to turn with them. I know it's very tempting to give up everything just to kill that one plane that's shooting down your team player/bot, but chances are even if you get 75% of their HP you've just placed your FW190 in a really bad situation with no escape, apart from wasting your boost to catch up which is not ideal. What you want to do is go inside the mess ,get some shots, then get out and zoom away. This is key to flying the fw190s.
  • Resist the urge to dive all the way to the deck (probably applies to any plane on any pub match gameplay) but with the fw190, you might think you can regain all the altitude once reached top speed in the red zone, but the reality is you just wasted all that altitude and energy retention to go back up and now you're stuck at the lower altitudes struggling to climb. Oh and you'll have to waste your boost as well. Big no no.

 

I'm sure there's more but i'll end it with that list.

 

As for equipment. Opinions will vary but I would build the Fw190a5 with:

-speed (polish)

-all axis manoeuvrability boost for more roll rate goodness (+evades) 

-engine tuning for increased engine power

 

For Crew, spec with the respective equipments you chose. In this case get:

-Aero expert

-Engine I & II (can't remember without looking at the crew page ingame)

-Evasive tactics

-Airspeed buff when out of combat (no guns firing or getting shot)

*And the remaining points on whatever you wish: More gun accuracy or more survivability. It's all playstyle at that point. But you're limited to 15skill points in total so choose wisely at the beginning while you're still grinding your Fw190a5.

 

It's going to take a hell of a long time to level your crew for every plane but it is somewhat worth it and does make a difference imo once fully maxed out or as near as you can get it.

 

Hope this helps. GL in your grind. Enjoy the Fw190a5 :) It's a fun plane once you get used to it.

 

Edited by Destroyer_Suzukaze, 06 January 2018 - 09:16 PM.


Captain_Rownd #9 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:44 PM

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I tried a couple more games, but still dismal results.  If you have to be picky about targets and conserve boost it takes forever to find something to shoot at, and its DPM and effectiveness is very low.  In the second game I flew to the nearby cap and decided to stay clear of the fighters and take a level path towards the two heavy fighters above.  I lost 75% of my health to AA before I even got within firing range of the first one, and only got about 20% of that kill in the end.  I had lost 80% of my health by the time the objective was capped and was shot down soon after reaching the second cap.  In the middle cap I tried zooming through, but without being able to turn I couldn't put many bullets on a target and got ram-killed by a fighter.  In the third cap I got ram-killed by a ground attack.  Both of those planes flew away unharmed.  I don't understand why ramming is a "thing" in aircraft?  Even trying to boost away fighters were shredding me before I could make distance. 

 

But I haven't rage-quit as hard as I did after a few games of Ground Attack planes.  ;)

 

Back in fighters for the Albion event...much happier!  :D


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 07 January 2018 - 01:25 AM.


crzyhawk #10 Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:34 AM

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The whole ramming mechanic in this game is probably the dumbest mechanic I have seen in any video game I've ever played.  I'm finding I am not a fan of multi-role at all.  I like the rockets but the bombs mostly seem a waste of time so far.

trikke #11 Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:12 PM

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op's thread title was 109, so i jumped in to read it as i just started flying the 109b this week

 

i see now that he meant to type 190, but i suppose the pro tips and lessons are the same 

 

even though i fly german heavies successfully, in the exact same manner...  i'm doing little to nothing at all for my team in the 109

 

obviously, it'll take many more battles for me to become even moderately useful in it

 

or i could just quit, which is normally what i do when i can't do something well right away

 

ask that guitar in the corner over there how long it's been since i last picked it up 


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Mercsn #12 Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:53 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 06 January 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

I tried a couple more games, but still dismal results.  If you have to be picky about targets and conserve boost it takes forever to find something to shoot at, and its DPM and effectiveness is very low.  In the second game I flew to the nearby cap and decided to stay clear of the fighters and take a level path towards the two heavy fighters above.  I lost 75% of my health to AA before I even got within firing range of the first one, and only got about 20% of that kill in the end.  I had lost 80% of my health by the time the objective was capped and was shot down soon after reaching the second cap.  In the middle cap I tried zooming through, but without being able to turn I couldn't put many bullets on a target and got ram-killed by a fighter.  In the third cap I got ram-killed by a ground attack.  Both of those planes flew away unharmed.  I don't understand why ramming is a "thing" in aircraft?  Even trying to boost away fighters were shredding me before I could make distance.

 

But I haven't rage-quit as hard as I did after a few games of Ground Attack planes.  ;)

 

Back in fighters for the Albion event...much happier!  :D

 

Ramming is a thing because when 2 heavy objects collide bad things happen.  Why did the GA survive and your fighter didn't?  Hmmm, do you look both ways before you cross a street?  Why?  Exactly.  The car will win and you don't want to give it the chance.

 


 

If the FW isn't fun, don't wrestle with it. 


 

If you do want to have a go with it again and don't like dealing with AA and fighters you can't turn with, try playing defense with it.  Use it to hunt enemy GA (you can outmaneuver them and if they're bots, they'll fly nice and straight for you).  Just don't drift in so close that you get bomb killed.  And, don't slow down so much to stay behind them that you get a low speed stall and attempt a nose-first emergency landing.   They can also be used to knock out ai bomber command flights on maps with the command centers calling in bombers.    Personally, unless the GA are player flown, I think hunting GA is less fun and less rewarding to the team/match then using something that can knock out fighters over a zone to either capture or defend a zone.  


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Captain_Rownd #13 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:23 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 07 January 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

op's thread title was 109, so i jumped in to read it as i just started flying the 109b this week

 

i see now that he meant to type 190, but i suppose the pro tips and lessons are the same 

 

Whoops, I never noticed that typo

 



Dru83 #14 Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:14 AM

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The FW-190s are difficult to play. You have to think of yourself as a vulture. Prey on the weak, the slow, and the oblivious. Stay to the outside areas of the caps, that way, it's easier to get out of the cap. BTW, if you are about to die, try to get out of the cap area as you'll hurt your team if you die in the cap. I'm on the tier 7 190 now and I still have trouble with it. But, every once in a while I have a great game with it. As others have said, don't try to climb while you run away, you'll just slow yourself down. Run away straight or in a slight dive and boost if need be. Use the degree markers in the HUD to guide you. You don't really need to climb at any steeper than 45 degrees. Unless someone is really close to you and you're desperate, you don't really need to dive away at more than 25 degrees. Speed is life. Altitude and boost = potential speed. Airspeed = kinetic speed. Think of altitude as a speed bank. Slowly climb up and fill the bank, then spend your altitude to build speed as you dive through the edges of the furball and pick off the unsuspecting.

Captain_Rownd #15 Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:27 AM

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View PostDru83, on 09 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

BTW, if you are about to die, try to get out of the cap area as you'll hurt your team if you die in the cap.

 

Thanks - that seems obvious but I never knew it. 

 

  I might [edited]a lot, but I'm enjoying the game. I played Tanks a lot in 2017 and my big frustration with Tanks is how often you get 1/2 shot killed.  And flying is always fun.  ;)

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 09 January 2018 - 03:29 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #16 Posted 09 January 2018 - 05:20 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 09 January 2018 - 03:27 AM, said:

 

Thanks - that seems obvious but I never knew it. 

 

  I might [edited]a lot, but I'm enjoying the game. I played Tanks a lot in 2017 and my big frustration with Tanks is how often you get 1/2 shot killed.  And flying is always fun.  ;)

 

 

At the higher tiers you're going to have to endure one shots from time to time - bloody XP-58 bots

Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 09 January 2018 - 05:21 AM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Wombatmetal #17 Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:43 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 08 January 2018 - 09:20 PM, said:

 

At the higher tiers you're going to have to endure one shots from time to time - bloody XP-58 bots

 

Not to mention the Yak MR line. The 45 on my Yak 9 does a hurting when it connects. It is a lot harder to land a shot with it than in tanks though. If you are deft with aim and can handle derp cannons, Yak MR is a lot easier to play than the 190s. So are the Hurricanes. 



StoptheViolins #18 Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:30 PM

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Just use your A-1 to hunt GA and bombers.  No one defends GA so you can get a good many unmolested.

Hiro_Yoshi #19 Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:26 PM

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The line improves drastically at higher tiers, but it doesn't seem to be the most versatile multi role line. They do pack a heavy punch if you can adjust to the line's play style. I find the US "heavy" multirole line, which includes the P-47 series, to be more user friendly.

Captain_Rownd #20 Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:51 AM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 09 January 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

Just use your A-1 to hunt GA and bombers. No one defends GA so you can get a good many unmolested.

 

I molest GA in absolutely everything I fly.  ;)  FW 190 A-1 doesn't go high enough for bombers, though.  Can hit some heavies if they drop low enough. I also found it able to take out AA guns if there are no fighters defending them.

 

I just noticed that the bots talk to each other in battle chat occasionally.  I'm not sure if that's meant to be cute, or they're actually trying to fool us into thinking there are more players?

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 10 January 2018 - 10:04 AM.





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