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F4F Wildcat and the Grumman/Vought/Lockheed USA Multirole Fighter line: Garbage? Or worth it?


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legoboy0401 #21 Posted 29 December 2017 - 06:10 PM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 28 December 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

 

get a better keyboard, it’s not the game doing that it’s the keyboard.  

 

Nope, I've played this on varying computers with a variety of different keyboards. It doesn't help. Clearly, the issue is NOT on the client side, it's on the server side.

 

WG support denies that they have experienced any such problem, even when I gave them permission to try it out on my account, they claimed "it worked perfectly fine for us".

 

They are obviously lying. 


Random Thoughts Of The Day:

 

World of Warplanes? More like World of Bots-that-are-designed-to-fail-so-you-lose-as-often-as-you-win.

Heavy Fighters? More like Obsolete Flying Bricks.

Attack Aircraft? More like Bomber-wannabes.


legoboy0401 #22 Posted 29 December 2017 - 06:42 PM

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View PostLMG, on 28 December 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

 

When ground targets respawn they DO NOT reset or move back the cap progress. Same thing with Air Defense Aircraft. The progress towards capture of a sector remains the same until a ground target or aircraft is destroyed within its boundaries (except for the repair building Maintenance Shop on Airbases; that one they does not give any capture points when destroyed). Ground targets and air defense aircraft respawning is a mechanic that allows sectors to be captured even after long periods of contest and constant attacks.

 

Imagine if a Mining Facility was completely obliterated, yet a few planes dying over it kept it from being fully captured. Without the ground targets respawning, the attacking team would have no way to capture it aside of luring some bots towards it.

 

The same applies to Air Defense Aircraft; in fact, because they can respawn, it is possible to capture areas like Military Bases solely through aircraft kills, even if they don't have the required number of planes needed to capture by default.

 

If you've ever watched Shrike Gaming's tutorial on ordinance,  you'll be able to see that a single multi-role, even under the best of circumstances, with no contesting from the enemy team, cannot capture a Mining Plant. No matter how many ground  targets he destroys with his Corsair, he can't do any lasting capping because by the time his ordinance has reloaded, the capture bar has magically reset to 100%(or 0%, rather, as the Mining Base was neutral in the video) percent capture.

 

If capture points(actually a sort of mini-influence, except it's influencing the base, not the map) do not ever reset without the base changing hands, how do you explain that video?

 

Also, you totally forgot to mention my counter argument, that it's too slow to occur in most situations, but one way to see it is by capturing a enemy military base that i is the only thing attacking a certain base of your team's, and has started decapping it.

 

If what you say is true, the only way that base will be restored to 100% cap again on the same team( EVEN when it's left alone for a while) is by having an enemy plane or two blunder into the cap and get shot down.

 

But is this what we see? Hardly. The base, when left alone for a while, will magically restore the capture points lost, returning the capture progress to 100% for that team.

 

What do you make of this?


Edited by legoboy0401, 29 December 2017 - 07:54 PM.

Random Thoughts Of The Day:

 

World of Warplanes? More like World of Bots-that-are-designed-to-fail-so-you-lose-as-often-as-you-win.

Heavy Fighters? More like Obsolete Flying Bricks.

Attack Aircraft? More like Bomber-wannabes.


legoboy0401 #23 Posted 29 December 2017 - 07:00 PM

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View PostDru83, on 28 December 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Hey mnvb, you said, "The F4F was an oddball being the only TnB US tech tree fighter."


 

The F4F is most decidedly not a turn and burn fighter... maybe you were thinking of the F3F and F2F?


 

As far as Wildcats and Corsairs vs. 190s, I'll take the Corsairs every time. They're just more fun and I've had more success with them. The Wildcat is a bit of a pain to grind through, but once you get the Corsairs, oh, they're so much fun. I'm up to the tier 9 starfire now. The corsairs are kind of a jack of most trades, master of none. The only thing they can't do well is turn. But, they're not the best at anything.


 

The 190s are a kind of horizontal boom and zoom. They've got decent speed and good firepower, but the minute you lose speed from turning, everybody will be all over you and you'll die. I'm up to the Tier 7 190 and the only thing that's keeping me going is the promise of the B.V. bat planes in the future.


 

The other thing is that the US planes have way more air to ground ordnance, if you're into that kind of thing.
 

 

Dude, watch it, you aren't allowed to use red font. It's reserved for moderators. I'd suggest switching to a different color font right away.

Random Thoughts Of The Day:

 

World of Warplanes? More like World of Bots-that-are-designed-to-fail-so-you-lose-as-often-as-you-win.

Heavy Fighters? More like Obsolete Flying Bricks.

Attack Aircraft? More like Bomber-wannabes.


pyantoryng #24 Posted 29 December 2017 - 07:39 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 29 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

 

If you've ever watched Shrike Gaming's tutorial on ordinance,  you'll be able to see that a single multi-role, even under the best of circumstances, with no contesting from the enemy team, cannot capture a Mining Plant. No matter how many ground  targets he destroys with his Corsair, he can't do any lasting capping because by the time his ordinance has reloaded, the capture bar has magically reset to 100%(or 0%, rather, as the Mining Base was neutral in the video) percent capture.

 

If capture points(actually a sort of mini-influence, except it's influencing the base, not the map) do not ever reset without the base changing hands, how do you explain that video?

 

Also, you totally forgot to mention my counter argument, that it's too slow to occur in most situations, but one way to see it is by capturing a enemy military base that i is the only thing attacking a certain base of your team's, and has started decapping it.

 

If what you say is true, the only way that base will be restored to 100% cap again on the same team( EVEN when it's left alone for a while) is by having an enemy plane or two blunder into the cap and get shot down.

 

But is this what we see? Hardly. The base, when left alone for a while, will magically restore the capture points lost, returning the capture progress to 100% for that team.

 

What do you make of this?

 

Link to video?



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legoboy0401 #25 Posted 29 December 2017 - 07:53 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 29 December 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

 

Link to video?

 

Never mind me, I don't know what I'm talking about. At the end of this video he does in fact capture the Mining Plant.:facepalm:But don't take my word for it, it's right here:

 

 

 I'm so stupid. I'm almost certain that capture points can reset after a period of time, but if it is possible, it takes a lot longer than that apparently.

 

Trust me, I've seen this in-game before, I just haven't found a video that illustrates it.


Random Thoughts Of The Day:

 

World of Warplanes? More like World of Bots-that-are-designed-to-fail-so-you-lose-as-often-as-you-win.

Heavy Fighters? More like Obsolete Flying Bricks.

Attack Aircraft? More like Bomber-wannabes.


Dru83 #26 Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:55 PM

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"Dude, watch it, you aren't allowed to use red font. It's reserved for moderators. I'd suggest switching to a different color font right away." 


 

Is that better? Lol. Maybe if they made it easier to quote people I wouldn't bother using the sacred color.


 

LMG #27 Posted 29 December 2017 - 11:26 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 29 December 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

If you've ever watched Shrike Gaming's tutorial on ordinance,  you'll be able to see that a single multi-role, even under the best of circumstances, with no contesting from the enemy team, cannot capture a Mining Plant. No matter how many ground  targets he destroys with his Corsair, he can't do any lasting capping because by the time his ordinance has reloaded, the capture bar has magically reset to 100%(or 0%, rather, as the Mining Base was neutral in the video) percent capture.

 

If capture points(actually a sort of mini-influence, except it's influencing the base, not the map) do not ever reset without the base changing hands, how do you explain that video?

 

Also, you totally forgot to mention my counter argument, that it's too slow to occur in most situations, but one way to see it is by capturing a enemy military base that i is the only thing attacking a certain base of your team's, and has started decapping it.

 

If what you say is true, the only way that base will be restored to 100% cap again on the same team( EVEN when it's left alone for a while) is by having an enemy plane or two blunder into the cap and get shot down.

 

But is this what we see? Hardly. The base, when left alone for a while, will magically restore the capture points lost, returning the capture progress to 100% for that team.

 

What do you make of this?

 

I was merely talking about sectors not losing their capture progress over time, as I do not fly fighters of any type very often. I fly Ground Attack Aircraft almost exclusively, and I have never seen a base suddenly recover capture points. In fact, when I cannot capture a sector I just beat the hell out of it so either an ally or I can flip it later with ease.

 

And yes, if a Military Base starts shooting at a sector, it WILL capture it eventually unless the defending team kills hostile planes over it on a regular basis, and imo that was the main reason that Scorching Sands: Outpost was such an unbalanced map. All the south team had to do was protect the Military Base, let it capture everything else, and spawn camp the north team. They could only lose if the north team somehow managed to flip the Military Base, or if they kept dying over whatever it was currently shooting at. There is a similar map with a Command Center instead, but you can shoot down the bomber flights, unlike the missiles. In fact, I even suggested adding some way to stop Military Bases from firing for a while so the defending team had some sort of counterplay aside of straight up capturing it, like the Repair Facility on Airbases. It's even more annoying when it starts shooting at a nearly-capped Mining Facility and just so happens to hit the central ground target, cutting your progress in half in one fell swoop :angry:


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StoptheViolins #28 Posted 30 December 2017 - 02:57 AM

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I've discovered the joys of 500lb bombs - one can take out the smaller factory blocks on plants so the P-47 stock has gone up.  Since the F4U line can get a 1600 pounder.... tasty.

crzyhawk #29 Posted 30 December 2017 - 09:46 PM

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I have been enjoying my F4F.  I'm not sure why I like it and not my XF4F.

pyantoryng #30 Posted 02 January 2018 - 06:42 AM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 30 December 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

I've discovered the joys of 500lb bombs - one can take out the smaller factory blocks on plants so the P-47 stock has gone up.  Since the F4U line can get a 1600 pounder.... tasty.

 

That one 1600lber takes 3 minutes to reload...you can get three drops at most with it, and only 8 HVARs.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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StoptheViolins #31 Posted 02 January 2018 - 02:34 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 02 January 2018 - 01:42 AM, said:

 

That one 1600lber takes 3 minutes to reload...you can get three drops at most with it, and only 8 HVARs.

3 minutes of dog fighting time before it respawns to kill the plane's handling.

 

Sadly the 500lb bombs on the F-84 take 2 to take out a smaller factory plant where as a SC250 from the B.2 has better damage characteristics but seems to be able to take out the sub factory with one bomb.

 

After coursing through some Starfire matches I am not sure on the line itself.  The pirate looks bad on paper, the P-94 is inadequate against the propaganda specced Migs.  The only planes on the US lines that fit the current meta is the F-86 line and the GA line F-84D.

 

The rest of the US lines seem to rely on BnZ in the horizontal since their climb rates aren't all that good - even un bombed.



HazeGrayUnderway #32 Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:58 PM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 02 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

 

The rest of the US lines seem to rely on BnZ in the horizontal since their climb rates aren't all that good - even un bombed.

 

They can't even "zoom" on the horizontal all that well.  Nothing like seeing a Tier VIII F2G "Super" Corsair trying to Engine Boost away from a Tier VII Spitfire IX (because dogfighting it in a Corsair is suicide), but can't separate because the Spitfire is keeping pace long enough to kill it.


Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 02 January 2018 - 07:58 PM.


vcharng #33 Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:38 AM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 02 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

3 minutes of dog fighting time before it respawns to kill the plane's handling.

 

Sadly the 500lb bombs on the F-84 take 2 to take out a smaller factory plant where as a SC250 from the B.2 has better damage characteristics but seems to be able to take out the sub factory with one bomb.

 

After coursing through some Starfire matches I am not sure on the line itself.  The pirate looks bad on paper, the P-94 is inadequate against the propaganda specced Migs.  The only planes on the US lines that fit the current meta is the F-86 line and the GA line F-84D.

 

The rest of the US lines seem to rely on BnZ in the horizontal since their climb rates aren't all that good - even un bombed.

 

Wait, does bomb/rockets being present or not (equipped in both cases) actually affects handling? Isn't that the mechanic in Battlestations: Pacific?

 

I'm enjoying F2A, F4F and F4U-1 so far. Although you probably won't win a dogfight when a Spitfire or Zero is already at your six, they perform well in every situation other than those.

There are some guys suggesting that Spitfires will own Corsairs anyway, but I can't agree with them, as I don't remember killing a single USN Multirole in my Spit I, V or IX. Navy and Army Multiroles are usually too high and too fast to allow me to even start shooting at them, let alone actually killing them.

But I personally enjoy the Tornado even more, with better turn rate and faster rocket reload. It did come at the cost of a pretty sluggish roll rate though.



StoptheViolins #34 Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:10 PM

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Bombs and rockets affect top speed and sometimes rate of climb.  Dropping them seems to give some of the loss back.  Not having them initial does give a noticeable difference.

LMG #35 Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:41 PM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 03 January 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

Bombs and rockets affect top speed and sometimes rate of climb. Dropping them seems to give some of the loss back. Not having them initial does give a noticeable difference.

 

I believe the Devs confirmed that using your ordnance does not remove the negatives in 2.0. Quite a letdown, as it used to do it. Might have something to do with bombs and rockets recharging


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StoptheViolins #36 Posted 03 January 2018 - 06:15 PM

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View PostLMG, on 03 January 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 

I believe the Devs confirmed that using your ordnance does not remove the negatives in 2.0. Quite a letdown, as it used to do it. Might have something to do with bombs and rockets recharging

Ouch.  Must be my imagination then.

 

Still, fun to fly a decent convertible.



vcharng #37 Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:11 AM

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View PostLMG, on 03 January 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

I believe the Devs confirmed that using your ordnance does not remove the negatives in 2.0. Quite a letdown, as it used to do it. Might have something to do with bombs and rockets recharging

 

That answers my question. As a former [edited]:P player I have always been wondering if I should just release my ordnance before entering a dogfight, just like what I would do with a bomb-carrying Zero in [edited]:P.

Johnny_Wishbone #38 Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:53 AM

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Why on God's green earth would you use weapon groups?

vcharng #39 Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:30 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 04 January 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

 

That answers my question. As a former [edited]:P player I have always been wondering if I should just release my ordnance before entering a dogfight, just like what I would do with a bomb-carrying Zero in [edited]:P.

 

Lol why is this getting edited? I was just mentioning the abbreviation of Battlestations: Pacific.

Like I mentioned earlier in that game it really matters if your outboard weapons are reloaded, so for fighters with rockets/bombs I have to jettison them before dogfighting.

Glad it's not the case here in WOWP.



Onyx #40 Posted 07 January 2018 - 05:12 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 01 January 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

That one 1600lber takes 3 minutes to reload...you can get three drops at most with it, and only 8 HVARs.

 

Thankfully that's not that big a problem on the F2G.  The plane's woeful lack of acceleration without building for it is the bigger issue.  The ability to drop a single bomb and completely destroy an entire ground objective short of the main part of Mining Plant is a massive and game-winning edge to have (might need to cannon a single building for command centers).  Every hardened base has 1 objective worth far and away more than the others, and the F2G can single-handedly take it out by itself in 1 or 2 passes (more the latter than the former for plant).  You can win games by taking the correct base quickly enough or, as another tactic, slowing down the enemy taking a base for long enough.  And being able to do that once every 3 minutes is a steal considering it's an okay fighter outside of its devastating super-bomb.

 

I've found in many games that I've not needed to drop too many bombs to begin with simply because pushing and holding the correct bases is of more value than throwing tons of ordnance at all times (though there's certainly something to be said about that).  The bombs/rockets often tend to just be idle on my plane while I screw around as a slower P-51 that can actually kill things quickly and easily.  Unrelated side note, the high-alt fighters need serious buffs.

 

The real value of multiroles I've come to find is using them to nudge a base over the edge while being able to defend themselves or harass attackers while they try to take a hardened base.  Occasionally messing with bombers just because they can, albeit they're not good at it.

 

So don't sell a single well-placed 1600lber short.  Even at a 3m cooldown, it can win games for your team.


Edited by Onyx, 07 January 2018 - 05:13 AM.





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