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Mikoyan-Gurevich, Yakovlev, or Lavochkin?


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Gloryhund #1 Posted 15 December 2017 - 05:10 AM

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I've more or less settled on Soviet aircraft in my playtime, but I honestly don't understand the differences in playstyle and usage in these three aircraft (probably because I'm a newbie). Can someone enlighten me on the differences with these aircraft lines, the differences between the two (and maybe a comparison to competition from other nations)?
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Lt_Haruhi_Suzumiya #2 Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:59 AM

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I tried nearly every plane in branches till Tier 7. before 2.0(sigh)  and haven't tried soviet Tier 8-10 fighters, so I can't provide info bout higher tier, and I guess my info are bit outdated.

  

Yakovlev Light (Yak-1/3/15) - great maneuverability, so-so engine but with terribly awful altitude limit(you will get engine performance penalty if you climb higher than that).  not good but not bad firepower

 

Yakovlev Multirole(Yak-7/9s) - nearly same spec with Yakovlev lights, but this thing have 37,45,57mm BFG compared to tiny little 20-23mm gun from Yakovlev lights but costed bit of maneuverability.

 

Lavochkin - good maneuverability, good engine with bit bad altitude limit. maybe.   La-7 sucks but La-5 and La-9 has good firepower too

 

MiG - Compared to another three turnfighters does, this thing is working as High alt BnZ   good engine with good altitude limit. but so-so maneuverability. don't perform turnfight with Yakovlevs or Zeros

 

Currently on 2.0,  I have Yak-3 and Yak-9U on my airport, both are good plane on 2.0...

but according to my personal experience from former 1.x,  I prefer Lavochkin than Yakovlevs.

Specially, goddamn La-9 is annoying to engage as hostile.

 

 

 

 


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_Rumple_ #3 Posted 15 December 2017 - 08:11 AM

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One thing to add on the multi-role Yak line. You had best be good at aiming; a miss with that monster cannon hurts your dmg output(burst fire needed).

pyantoryng #4 Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:31 AM

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The light Yak line is great in this new meta that focuses on lower-than-2km-alt turnfighting against planes that score capture points...early access to NR-23 at tier 8 made the Yak-15 da bomb in turnfighting (but it's expensive to FEXP for that, and grinding to IL-40 just for easier access is not very feasible).

 

The Lavochkin line perform as an all-rounder being able to turn and climb decently, and generally hold better firepower in the prop era with uniform caliber. Things get a bit iffy in jet tier for this line, but that's something to worry about much later.

 

The heavy Yak line use hub-mounted massive cannon to deal equally massive damage provided that they hit...and they are hard to aim with. Say goodbye to your hits if you have bad ping. The line that go beyond them focuses in all big gun armaments. The tier 9 is as close to normal as you can get with 37mm that works like normal 30mms. The tier 10 breaks the limit and carry two 57mm guns.



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hoom #5 Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:21 PM

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Mirroring much of the above:

I've got La-9, Yak-9u & Yak-3, not tried the Migs yet.

 

La line are generally fairly fast, good turners (but outdone by A6M/Spits), La-5 -> 9 have pretty excellent firepower. Really love the La-9 & kept La-5 to play for fun.

Yak-7 line are good fun cannon derps, personally I find them generally not too hard to hit even with my 250ms ping & super satisfying when they do. Kinda need to stay out of furballs & snipe stuff from the edges, hard to hit in close where you'll also get out-turned a lot.

Yak-1 line is really nice turners, bit lacking firepower but very few planes will get the better of you 1v1.

 

Yak-9u & Yak-3 share a bit of a problem with their 2ndary guns being 20mm, its nice extra firepower but they actually overheat quicker than the main cannon so you can't just fire the 2ndaries while the primary cools like on cannon/machinegun armed planes, gets pretty frustrating at times.

 

Migs seem to be mainly fast/high altitude, bit mediocre firepower but turn ok but as I said not actually flown them.


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Mercsn #6 Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:22 PM

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My favorite fighter is the La-5. The La-7 is good. I have similar sortie time, and kill:death ratio in both.  The La-9 is probably the best of the three, relative to tier. But, things start moving fast enough in tier 8,9 matches that my performance seems to fall off (although my stats are turning out not far behind the La-5 and La-7).  

 

The La series are middle of the road in that they aren't the fastest, can't climb highest, and can't out-turn a Spitfire (or Zero in tiers 4-7 before zeros disappear). But, the result, in my experience is a Goldie Locks plane:  just right to be competitive in most situations.

 

The icing on the cake is the weapons are all the same caliber and all in the nose. So, the rounds go where you point them, in a nice grouping and it's very easy to lead and hit with all guns.  They are strong caliber for tier, offering both long-ish range and rate of fire.  The 23mm on La-7 and La-9 are also above average at breaking things (crits). The downside is they overheat rather quickly and you'll need to get a feel for how much to lead at what speeds and range or get in the habit of using your first burst to check lead.  Of course, then your enemy knows your after him if he's not focusing on a teammate.  Good trigger control is essential.  

 

Then again, this will be true on the Derp Yaks also. The big gun will overheat quickly. 

 

I only have personal experience with the La series to tier 8 and Yak 1.  I'm bad with mixed caliber guns and unmanueverable, low altitude planes.  So, the Derp Yaks are not my style and haven't played them since Beta (recently returned to game a month ago after 3.5 years away).

 

The turny Yaks appear to be very fun until tier 7 where their low altitude cap and fragility start to hurt.  The tier 7 is a twisty jet, but it will get stalled out by props with higher altitude caps.  The Yak's favorite food, Zeros or the Reppu, seem to be rare. My opinions on this craft are based on watching players, both blue and red, use them and from fighting against them.  

 

The Dep yaks become very unwieldy at higher tiers.

 

The La's mid altitude range seems to get the job done well enough against everything but humans in RB17s flying at a gillion meters.  I feel very historically correct when I pop an Me262 in my La-9.   This vs encounter speaks to the high "enough", fast "enough", and with guns with long "enough" range that hit hard "enough". 

 

Besides the speeds at tier 8+, I'm not a fan of 1v1 +bots matches, which seem to be most of my tier 8 games' composition. 

 

On a side note, the Yak-3RD is my most flown aircraft.  It gets the La's slightly higher altitude cap (compared to the tech tree Yak), has a great gun in the nose, is as speedy as an La (great accelletation with its rocket booster boost!) but twisty as a Yak.  Super fun plane if you develop trigger control, and great crew trainer.  I didn't get the La-11 premium because its stats say it's an up tiered La-7 minus a gun, plus more turn. But, I out-turned one, flown by a human, in my La-7.  So, that confirmed what the stats told me about it being in the wrong tier. 

 

Up until tier 7, I'd recommend the Yak turn fighters in this meta. For more versatility throughout the range, I'v been very happy with the Lavochkin line.  

 

The LaGG-3 used to be such a dog I actually used it primarily for ground attack  (back when it had rockets and 37mm nose gun and each ground target was a kill, unlike today's kill the group or get nothing).  But, they tweaked it to feel like the rest of the line at some point, in the past 3 years.

 

My 2 cents.

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StoptheViolins #7 Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:06 PM

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Because of guns I seem to do better using my Su-9 as a long range sniper with the 45mm nose cannon.  It vaporizes heavies in 3-4 hits, bomber in the same, and fighters in 1-2 hits.  You can expect it to be the higher of the number to hits, not lower.  Sitting out at a nice save 1km range is a lot more fun plus forgetful pilots think it's funny to joust with an Su-9 which usually ends horribly for them.

 

The Yak-15 with the T9 gun still feels underwhelming.  It just doesn't have the damage output needed to take down another plane quickly.  It feels like a gnat at a spider convention.



pyantoryng #8 Posted 15 December 2017 - 06:54 PM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 15 December 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

Because of guns I seem to do better using my Su-9 as a long range sniper with the 45mm nose cannon.  It vaporizes heavies in 3-4 hits, bomber in the same, and fighters in 1-2 hits.  You can expect it to be the higher of the number to hits, not lower.  Sitting out at a nice save 1km range is a lot more fun plus forgetful pilots think it's funny to joust with an Su-9 which usually ends horribly for them.

 

The Yak-15 with the T9 gun still feels underwhelming.  It just doesn't have the damage output needed to take down another plane quickly.  It feels like a gnat at a spider convention.

 

The Yak-15 is almost guaranteed to be able to stay on tails to whittle the targets down and jet propulsion lets it chase things a bit higher and farther than it specs say. Have to be a bit aggressive with the trigger though. The same principle works with the Yak-3RD and its single gun a tier lower... It won't down planes the fastest, but it can keep its guns on its target for as long as it needs to...great for air superiority battling.

 

...then again, I play with 300 ping, which reduces single-shot guns' effectiveness to near zero when used against aerial targets and make shots outright not registering occasionally...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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Pogo68 #9 Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:02 PM

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I've got the MiG-15 as well as the F-86A.

The MiG is a good bomber killer, but they nerfed the turn rates and altitude.

The MiG-15 should have a higher service ceiling (red zone) than the F-86A.

Historically the MiG-15 had a service ceiling that was 4,000ft greater than the F-86A and routinely arrived at the fight about 10,000ft above the Sabers.

 

The F-86 should be able to dive faster than the MiG-15,

IRL the F-86 could go supersonic in a dive, the MiG-15 could not.

 

The MiG-15 should also be able to out turn the F-86A, it was not until the F-86E and it's new wing that the F-86 could out turn the MiG.

The reason that MiG-15's did not routinely out turn the F-86 was because of the MiG's stall characteristics and the lack of pilot training.

When a plane turns hard, the harder the turn the higher the stall speed.

When the MiG entered this high speed stall, it tended to go into a spin.

An experienced pilot, could recover from this quickly, and more importantly avoid it all together.

Most NK pilots however did not have enough experience or training to avoid this or recover from the stall quickly.

 

The MiG-15 should also be more robust than the F-86A, it's engine tolerated damage better than the F-86.

The design of the engine meant that it could continue to function despite damage that would have killed an F-86's engine.

More than one MiG was claimed as a kill because the F-86 saw it streaming black smoke as it dove for the ground only to have the plane land back at it's base with the engine still running.

 

That big cannon is great for killing bombers, but it's a [edited]to get hits in a dogfight.


Edited by Pogo68, 15 December 2017 - 09:25 PM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Mercsn #10 Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:16 PM

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View PostPogo68, on 15 December 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

I've got the MiG-15.

Good bomber killer, but they nerfed the turn rates and altitude.

The MiG-15 should have a higher service ceiling (red zone) than the F-86A.

Historically the MiG-15 had a service ceiling that was 4,000ft greater than the F-86A and routinely arrived at the fight about 10,000ft above the Sabers.

 

The F-86 should be able to dive faster than the MiG-15,

IRL the F-86 could go supersonic in a dive, the MiG-15 could not.

 

The MiG-15 should also be able to out turn the F-86A, it was not until the F-86E and it's new wing that the F-86 could out turn the MiG.

 

The MiG-15 should also be more robust than the F-86A, it's engine tolerated damage better than the F-86.

 

MiG's seem the Soviet tree equivalent of the US tree P-51s, but with nose guns instead of wing guns until the US jets get nose guns?  I've seen people do well with the MiGs, but they weren't in the game back when I played, so I have no experience with them.

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Gloryhund #11 Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:10 PM

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I don't understand the last three tiers of the USSR multirole line (Sukhoi Su-9, Alekseyev I-211, Alekseyev I-215). Going from adaptable, maneuverable turnfighters to big, lumbering, not-very-maneuverable and not-very-impressive-airspeed lumbering masses. I mean, I understand their main draw is gigantic guns. A pair of 57mm cannons that rip a third of someone's health bar per shot.

 

I mean I don't understand their playstyle or how you're supposed to work them. I'm looking at them and they just look bulky.


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Mercsn #12 Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:19 AM

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View PostGloryhund, on 15 December 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

I don't understand the last three tiers of the USSR multirole line (Sukhoi Su-9, Alekseyev I-211, Alekseyev I-215). Going from adaptable, maneuverable turnfighters to big, lumbering, not-very-maneuverable and not-very-impressive-airspeed lumbering masses. I mean, I understand their main draw is gigantic guns. A pair of 57mm cannons that rip a third of someone's health bar per shot.

 

I mean I don't understand their playstyle or how you're supposed to work them. I'm looking at them and they just look bulky.

 

Combine that with the fact they they aren't at the highest altitude band and then their usefuleness for attacking huge hp pool targets, like a bomber, is limited to ai spawn bombers or ai bombers flying lower than a player would.  Even using big guns for those kinds of targets, I imagine the gun overheat might be so quick that taking them down with a smaller cannon might actually be faster.  But, a long range tank gun in the hands of a player who can effectively snipe would be a good counter to a tailgunner with a 1200m range (RB17, I think I read is up to 1500m with proper sepc/gear). But, that brings us back to the craft not being able to fly in the same altitude band that a player bomber would be at.

 


 

Very fast ground attack craft?  That group also confuses me, but I think that whole left side of the Yak tree has always been a bit novel.  In the previous version of the game, you actually had room for a player to go off and use non Ground Attack plane to attack ground targets, if they could do so without getting themselves killed by AA or too shot up and they weren't near the main fight.


 

In the current mode, you really either need a dedicated ground attacker that has enough ordnance and firepower to flip a zone efficiently (IL-20, A-26) are great examples or the plane needs to be in the air fight.


 

Every plane removed from the air fight helps the enemy because in aerial combat, numbers are very hard to overcome, since it's not like you can hide in a building sniping and keep several enemies pinned down: it's all open, the more fighters there are, the more guns are pointed at enemy planes and shooting at them.


 


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Gloryhund #13 Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:38 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 16 December 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

-snizzity snip-

 

 

So the reason I don't understand it is because it does not, in fact, have any real strengths going for it? That's kind of a bummer. I'm approaching the Yak-7 and had been enjoying the multiroles so far.


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pyantoryng #14 Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:20 AM

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View PostGloryhund, on 16 December 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

 

So the reason I don't understand it is because it does not, in fact, have any real strengths going for it? That's kind of a bummer. I'm approaching the Yak-7 and had been enjoying the multiroles so far.

 

It's a strength that not everyone can tap into. If you end up using small cannon in Yak-7/9 hub you might as well go Yak-1/3...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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hoom #15 Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:44 AM

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Whats the call on the other Jet bits of the lines?

Have faced some Yak-15s in the La-9 & been pretty surprised to find it literally turning circles round me, very hard to get guns on so I do plan on grabbing that.

I've researched the La-160 but not noticed them ingame, never heard of it either so not currently intending to move on to it from the La-9.

Likewise most of the rest seem pretty nondescript.


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StoptheViolins #16 Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:59 AM

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Based on the flavors in game the 160 should feel comfy like the La-7 line.  Neither stellar turning, stellar guns, but just comfy in both areas.  Where it probably differentiation itself from the mig line is boost time and climb.

trikke #17 Posted 17 December 2017 - 01:31 PM

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i much prefer props, so jets hold no attraction for me

 

i'll always be a mid tier guy...   because it's a ww2 game!

 

sorry, WG...  i know that you were were counting on getting more of my money, but...


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vonluckner #18 Posted 18 December 2017 - 05:09 PM

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View PostGloryhund, on 16 December 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

 

So the reason I don't understand it is because it does not, in fact, have any real strengths going for it? That's kind of a bummer. I'm approaching the Yak-7 and had been enjoying the multiroles so far.

 

I think that presumably MRs are supposed to fit into a niche where they can counter GAs, either a soft counter by killing ground targets to burn GA ordnance, or hard counter by using their firepower + concealing livery to just intercept and kill them.

 

The problem is that the stall speeds are so bad on the yak line I don't know how you could manage it after the first pass. Actually, every performance characteristic is so [edited]awful that you'll die to pretty much anything- including lower tier aircraft as long as they're remotely competent. One of the last games I played before going on holidays I had a 1v1 against an Su-9 in my La-7 down at low alt. I remember it specifically because there was absolutely nothing he found do to save himself. Can't go fast, can't go slow, can't turn, can't climb, can't roll.

 

As for which Russian line, the MiG line seems best as long as you can stomach the T6. The MiG-15 seems the best T10 of the bunch, with speed, firepower, and flight ceiling. 

 

Lavochkin probably has the edge over the Yak-30 line due to being faster at high tiers and having better firepower throughout. I haven't played the Yak line but it seems strong, even if only for its ability to humble a spitfire player. The poor engine performance on the T10 is the biggest downside of the Yak line.

 

The multirole line honestly looks terrible beyond T8. I would stop before then.


Edited by vonluckner, 18 December 2017 - 05:28 PM.


StoptheViolins #19 Posted 18 December 2017 - 05:16 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 17 December 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

i much prefer props, so jets hold no attraction for me

 

i'll always be a mid tier guy...   because it's a ww2 game!

 

sorry, WG...  i know that you were were counting on getting more of my money, but...

 

As they add bombers and hopefully make tactics viable with said bombers...

I'll prop.  Until then.. Big Cannons, small targets are my rule of the day.


Edited by StoptheViolins, 18 December 2017 - 05:17 PM.


hoom #20 Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:19 AM

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Block Quote

 the MiG line seems best as long as you can stomach the T6.

 Whats wrong with it?

Looks fast, high & reasonably good turning, only big issue looks to be the firepower but the B-20 (S) have a nice range & they're nose mounted.

 

I-220 looks like a particularly tasty beastie, I'm quite itching to get a hold of it but I need to free up a Hangar Slot/Pilot first & I'm not sure which it'll be.


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