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Stupid Bot AI and Poor Game Mechanic


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anonym_7K8ULl9urXns #1 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:19 PM

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I decide to quit this game.

 

Almost half of our bot AI chase after the enemy bot bombers at high altitude.  The game design is too poor.



FIight #2 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:32 PM

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View PostFrank_Xing, on 04 December 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

Almost half of our bot AI chase after the enemy bot bombers at high altitude.  The game design is too poor.

their AI algorithm is far from advanced, much far from the leading edge;

making AIs chasing the bombers is one application of Monte Carlo algorithm, where

you try to find the best answer as you have more samples(points); AI planes decided

to hunt the bombers cuz they think that's the optimal action that will bring about the best

outcome for next stage, but they failed to account for the fact that the next stage is not

necessarily the best stage to bring the best outcome in the very end. Simply speaking,

the Monte Carlo tree lacks depth, and fails to predict more steps beyond the next stage.

that can be caused by:

lack of computing power of their server;

lack of complexity for AI algorithm;

not enough coffee for programmers.

 



Zinro #3 Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:07 PM

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Wargaming has turned this game into a casual game.  i suspect that some players that started out liking the game and are taking that next step to become more competitive, will start getting frustrated at the randomness of the game outcomes.  Even though there are more humans playing this game, a majority of the battles still have mostly bots on the teams.  Bot programming is the same no matter what team they are on, but since some maps have different sectors, some bots will carry out different programming than others.  For instance, the map that puts a command center on one side and a mining plant on the other, the command center side team will not have to worry about their bots chasing bombers unless they give up the command center, while as long as they control it, the other teams bots can get stuck chasing bombers which gives your team an advantage.  As long as there are bots filling teams that have no concept of strategy, Wargaming needs to get rid of (re-organize) the maps that puts one sector on one side that doesn't have a matching sector on the other.  I would also say that GA bots are not as effective as fighter bots so I wonder if a GA bot could even take control of a mining plant by the end of the match, I usually see them crash at some point and give back some points.

KloudRains #4 Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:53 PM

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It is absurd that we have the frustration of watching a battle outcome, especially a needless loss, be determined by bot AI. The enjoyment of the game will be far more if we are able to manage bot behavior at some rudimentary level. 

The present foolishness of having bots make independent target selection is a fundamental cause of angry resentment felt by departing players. This heavy flaw cascades through the battle play.

There is no reason why players cannot be able to have general management of bot behavior. An experienced player can readily advise a less experienced one to have them proceed to a critical target. But the developers think bots should be independent of human management.

Here are a couple of links to prior inputs on the topic of giving us some management of the bots on our own team:

 

http://forum.worldof...back-human-pvp/

 

http://forum.worldof...bot-management/

 

There are other excellent inputs in this topic area. Developers please, please pay attention!

 

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LMG #5 Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:48 PM

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View Postnwlxn12, on 04 December 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

Wargaming has turned this game into a casual game.  i suspect that some players that started out liking the game and are taking that next step to become more competitive, will start getting frustrated at the randomness of the game outcomes.  Even though there are more humans playing this game, a majority of the battles still have mostly bots on the teams.  Bot programming is the same no matter what team they are on, but since some maps have different sectors, some bots will carry out different programming than others.  For instance, the map that puts a command center on one side and a mining plant on the other, the command center side team will not have to worry about their bots chasing bombers unless they give up the command center, while as long as they control it, the other teams bots can get stuck chasing bombers which gives your team an advantage.  As long as there are bots filling teams that have no concept of strategy, Wargaming needs to get rid of (re-organize) the maps that puts one sector on one side that doesn't have a matching sector on the other.  I would also say that GA bots are not as effective as fighter bots so I wonder if a GA bot could even take control of a mining plant by the end of the match, I usually see them crash at some point and give back some points.

 

GAA bots do not know how to properly use their ordnance, nor can they control their airspeed aside of boosting. They're quite ineffective at their job because of it; wasting rockets on AA emplacements, bombing soft targets and shooting armored ones. I believe that if you give a bot a Junkers, it will not be able to capture a Mining Facility on its own for the duration of the match :amazed:
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Mercsn #6 Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:22 AM

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View PostFrank_Xing, on 04 December 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

I decide to quit this game.

 

Almost half of our bot AI chase after the enemy bot bombers at high altitude.  The game design is too poor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First, welcome to the forums and it's sad to see this is your first post after almost 500 battles.  I would have hoped you'd come sooner in a quest for solutions to the problems you're encountering with the current game setup and bot ai.


 

The bot ai is bad at the current game mode.  They are also, mostly bad at "playing" with very poor gun skill, for the most part (if you ever watch over their shoulder when waiting to respawn, they have terrible aim AND will often NOT fire when they have a clear shot).


 

However, I think there are better reasons you could give if for quitting the game.  One reason might be that you are quitting because you're tired of losing matches where the ai won't attack the bombers AND won't attack the command center, so everytime you cap a zone, the bombers retake it...because your bots won't attack the bombers.  See what I did there?


 

Now, when the bots spend the entire match chasing bombers and not killing them, so you lose the sector that gets bombed AND you can't retake other sectors because the bots are spending all their time chasing the bombers (which they aren't killing), that's problematic.


 

But....there's also a solution.  HELP them attack the bombers so that they get knocked down fast.  THEN your bots are free to go and do something more productive.  OR, if your bots are managing to shoot down the bombers before the bombers can capture a blue sector, you can go into a quiet zone and steal it (chances are the other teams bots are also on "chase bomber duty").


 

Basically, with conquest, you not only have to be good at shooting down planes, you have to be good at figuring out WHERE you need to be shooting down planes.  If you're trying to solo a red zone that is full of red players and getting killed for your efforts, a better idea is to kill the bombers, then when your bots go attack that zone full of enemy, follow them in...or go steal the other less defended zone.  It doesn't always work out, but often picking where to fight and how to best use your bots is the difference between win and lose.


 

The bot ai requires a reprogramming to change.  Your "ai" doesn't.  You can more easily adapt, if you want to.


Edited by Mercsn, 05 December 2017 - 03:23 AM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Wombatmetal #7 Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:52 AM

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View PostFrank_Xing, on 04 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

I decide to quit this game.

 

Almost half of our bot AI chase after the enemy bot bombers at high altitude.  The game design is too poor.

 

If the bots don't shoot down the bombers, then the bombers will flip caps. And if you watch the programming of the bots, they only go after the bombers when they get close to them. So get to the bombers fast, shoot them down, and the bots will continue to do bot stuff.

 

 

 


Edited by Destroyer_Suzukaze, 05 December 2017 - 04:31 AM.


poisonousblood #8 Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:53 AM

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lol, it is funny because I can alone kill 5 of those bombers but the entire team of bots cant do it by themselves.

 

Bot GAAs crashes to the building losing all the cap points which just gets on my nerves.

 

Bot fighters / heavy fighter don't go after GAs, so any human GA player can have the best game only unless a human fighter intercepts. 

 

This system is realized by a few twitch streamers who are grinding GAAs at the moment and breaking the system when in a flight of two GAAs.

 

 



StoptheViolins #9 Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:06 PM

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Cannon Russian planes like the 9 series are good for bombers.  If you see AI getting "stuck" on a cp, go help them cap and they will unstuck.

The time it won't work is when the AI GAs are trying to shoot down bombers.

Also bots seem to only know attack but not defense.

Colddawg #10 Posted 05 December 2017 - 06:37 PM

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Instead of being so negative about it spread the positives so we can get more players in and less bots doing dumb things.

 

Also, i'm gonna guess they're going to modify the bot programming to make them more viable.


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LMG #11 Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:16 PM

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View PostColddawg, on 05 December 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Instead of being so negative about it spread the positives so we can get more players in and less bots doing dumb things.

 

Also, i'm gonna guess they're going to modify the bot programming to make them more viable.

 

From the dev post on the RU server that got transladed, WG isn't really looking for smarter bots. Apparently they outplay human players on average :amazed:
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CamoCladWarrior #12 Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:58 PM

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View PostColddawg, on 05 December 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

Instead of being so negative about it spread the positives so we can get more players in and less bots doing dumb things.

 

Also, i'm gonna guess they're going to modify the bot programming to make them more viable.

 

OK, could you point out said positives?  Cause I got nothing...  Oh wait, the intro looks pretty, it's all I got. go...

Moonrider #13 Posted 05 December 2017 - 10:09 PM

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View PostFrank_Xing, on 04 December 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

I decide to quit this game.

 

Almost half of our bot AI chase after the enemy bot bombers at high altitude.  The game design is too poor.

 

Mash the f7 button

 


Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.
-- Albert Camus





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