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Bomber Hunters


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ArrowZ_ #21 Posted 02 December 2017 - 03:34 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 02 December 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

 

Any of the multi-roles you mentioned are too limited by altitude.

Even the 190.:facepalm:

 

 

Hmm, if the fw190 got hit with its altitude with 2.0 then I guess it won't be viable. But with its HF-like firepower, FW can do some hurt towards bombers. If you're determined enough to get it up there.  Except the T5 FW190. I can't defend that plane. It's pretty bad in all its objectives as a t5 multirole.  Ill stand corrected with the F7U. Not too sure about that jet with this new mode. 1.X it was the flavour of the month. Crazy jet with hard hitting scalpel 20mms, insane climb rate. I regret not having got one.

 

Also forgot to add the migs up to T10. If you've got the aim with the 37mms, they can one pass any bomber in Seconds. They've got the speed and altitude to back up they're high alt dogfights. One other plane worth mentioning is the Ta152. Another good and unique choice. You'll need both good latency and aim for that plane to work. 


Edited by ArrowZ_, 02 December 2017 - 03:36 AM.

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SpiritFoxMY #22 Posted 02 December 2017 - 06:11 AM

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They should add an "Enhanced Turbo Supercharger" upgrade for HFs, MRs and LFs that increases their ceiling by 50% or so

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comtedumas #23 Posted 02 December 2017 - 06:49 AM

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vonluckner #24 Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:01 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 02 December 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

Anything with a 2k+ ceiling. The 190s and British Heavies top out at about 1.5k which is too low to be effective. I'd choose a 109 over a Mosquito as a bomber hunter.

 

109 doesn't have even close to enough firepower to chew through a player-controlled A-26.

 

It's like 90 dps out of your cannon vs. 128 out of the rear gun. Even assuming you can get into machinegun range, that's still only 188 dps meaning you're probably going to be spending multiple lives trying to kill them.

 

Mosquito is definitely better at killing bombers, because (speaking for myself) bombers don't fly at their actual flight ceiling. They fly high enough to avoid bot aircraft and keep themselves above swarms of LFs. Flying to your actual flight ceiling is less effective overall than just staying at the top of the yellow zone (~10000ft) because once you're into the red your practical speed is only like 90-110mph in the A-26. With this in mind, the Mosquitos flight ceiling is adequately high (~2000ft lower than the A-26, making an A-26 at flight ceiling within gun range).

 

What is more important is that the Mosquito is fast, has a good climb rate, and carries enough firepower to kill a bomber fast. You can boost climb up to 10000ft from spawn, gain speed and intercept the bomber, crippling if not killing it outright in a single pass. By comparison, LFs simply don't have the boost, speed, or firepower to challenge the A-26. Your time to altitude ends up being slower because you have less boost, and you don't have the firepower to make an advantageous first pass. Keep in mind a player-controlled bomber can maneuver while using the defensive guns, draining your energy. I've actually beaten Me 410s in dogfights with the A-26 simply because they arrive at my alt with no energy- I turn just inside them while hitting them with the tail gun and then turn to pursue and kill with nose guns if they try to run.

 

This changes at higher tiers, as climb rates and firepower all go up dramatically (while the RB-26 has relatively less defensive firepower and a lower flight ceiling). It's hard to say how bombers will play when they're implemented fully, as heavy bombers will probably play very differently than any of the bombers we were offered. I don't see them allowing B-17s to waffle around at overall flight ceiling of their tier with that defensive firepower.

 

 



FIight #25 Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:02 AM

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View PostArrowZ_, on 01 December 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

 

Hmm, if the fw190 got hit with its altitude with 2.0 then I guess it won't be viable. But with its HF-like firepower, FW can do some hurt towards bombers. If you're determined enough to get it up there.  Except the T5 FW190. I can't defend that plane. It's pretty bad in all its objectives as a t5 multirole.  Ill stand corrected with the F7U. Not too sure about that jet with this new mode. 1.X it was the flavour of the month. Crazy jet with hard hitting scalpel 20mms, insane climb rate. I regret not having got one.

 

Also forgot to add the migs up to T10. If you've got the aim with the 37mms, they can one pass any bomber in Seconds. They've got the speed and altitude to back up they're high alt dogfights. One other plane worth mentioning is the Ta152. Another good and unique choice. You'll need both good latency and aim for that plane to work. 

 

the f7u used to be the only plane capable of catching xf90 in low altitude, as it stalls at 170km/h and has better speed over

xf90 at sea level. It's much slower now, nor is the climb rate high



SpiritFoxMY #26 Posted 02 December 2017 - 08:59 AM

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View Postvonluckner, on 02 December 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

 

109 doesn't have even close to enough firepower to chew through a player-controlled A-26.

 

It's like 90 dps out of your cannon vs. 128 out of the rear gun. Even assuming you can get into machinegun range, that's still only 188 dps meaning you're probably going to be spending multiple lives trying to kill them.

 

Mosquito is definitely better at killing bombers, because (speaking for myself) bombers don't fly at their actual flight ceiling. They fly high enough to avoid bot aircraft and keep themselves above swarms of LFs. Flying to your actual flight ceiling is less effective overall than just staying at the top of the yellow zone (~10000ft) because once you're into the red your practical speed is only like 90-110mph in the A-26. With this in mind, the Mosquitos flight ceiling is adequately high (~2000ft lower than the A-26, making an A-26 at flight ceiling within gun range).

 

What is more important is that the Mosquito is fast, has a good climb rate, and carries enough firepower to kill a bomber fast. You can boost climb up to 10000ft from spawn, gain speed and intercept the bomber, crippling if not killing it outright in a single pass. By comparison, LFs simply don't have the boost, speed, or firepower to challenge the A-26. Your time to altitude ends up being slower because you have less boost, and you don't have the firepower to make an advantageous first pass. Keep in mind a player-controlled bomber can maneuver while using the defensive guns, draining your energy. I've actually beaten Me 410s in dogfights with the A-26 simply because they arrive at my alt with no energy- I turn just inside them while hitting them with the tail gun and then turn to pursue and kill with nose guns if they try to run.

 

This changes at higher tiers, as climb rates and firepower all go up dramatically (while the RB-26 has relatively less defensive firepower and a lower flight ceiling). It's hard to say how bombers will play when they're implemented fully, as heavy bombers will probably play very differently than any of the bombers we were offered. I don't see them allowing B-17s to waffle around at overall flight ceiling of their tier with that defensive firepower.

 

 

 

Fair point. To be honest - I tend to ignore bombers as its easier to just pick off the non-bombers to flip a cap. Its only in close games, with a bomber farming a cap when I'm inclined to go up and dance with them. My experiences have been less than stellar; a Focke Wulf can deal with bombers, but it needs to climb outside visual range of the bomber then close in. Mosquitos can deal with them reasonably well by, as you've mentioned, boost-climbing up and raking their bellies from below, but both efforts are a stretch and leave you vulnerable on the way up to getting jumped by high altitude fighters like the 109 and 51 and one pass is the most you're getting because climbing in the bomber's field of fire is suicide. And even if you take the bomber down, climbing like that takes you out of the main battle below - a bomber doesn't have to win by capping - they just need to divert enough firepower from the main fight.

 

Also, by sweet little jet biplane can't hope to touch a Blenheim - I made it up to 2.6k and just stalled out in the red zone for that fighter.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 02 December 2017 - 09:00 AM.

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Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #27 Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:56 AM

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I'm finding my VII FW190-D stalls out quite often trying to climb high enough to chase bombers, tier VIII jets, or some heavies, as does the Lightning F (both w/ engine tuning + engine guru 1).

I also got handled roughly by a player-controlled A26 when flying the P38F on a desert map earlier tonight, losing both engines alongside tail and wing damage before another player and I managed to gun it down.

 

The (Chinese) VII Mustang can probably climb high enough, but isn't exactly swimming in firepower even with a sight equipped plus Marksman 1 & 2; but in future matches I'll probably ignore high flying bombers altogether.


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FIight #28 Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:25 AM

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View PostSoylent_Red_Isnt_People, on 02 December 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

I'm finding my VII FW190-D stalls out quite often trying to climb high enough to chase bombers, tier VIII jets, or some heavies, as does the Lightning F (both w/ engine tuning + engine guru 1).

I also got handled roughly by a player-controlled A26 when flying the P38F on a desert map earlier tonight, losing both engines alongside tail and wing damage before another player and I managed to gun it down.

 

The (Chinese) VII Mustang can probably climb high enough, but isn't exactly swimming in firepower even with a sight equipped plus Marksman 1 & 2; but in future matches I'll probably ignore high flying bombers altogether.

 

P-38J is a fierce bomber killer, same as me410, bombers can't defeat heavy fighters

of the same tier



Pogo68 #29 Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:30 AM

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I've killed the low tier bomber using a Skua, A6M1 though the Bf-110b is the best for that tier.

The A-26, I've used a Spitfire MkIa and the Beaufighter, though I'm pretty sure any of the fighters with 6mg or quad cannon will kill it.

So the Bf-110e, 410 are good candidates.

The Russian bomber, so far I've used an F2H, the F-94, a Spitfire, Seafang and the UK heavy.

Haven't tried with the F-86 and MiG-15 yet because when I was using the F-86 I was busy with other fighters and I haven't flown the MiG-15 since 2.0 came online.


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

jack_wdw #30 Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:26 PM

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View PostSoylent_Red_Isnt_People, on 02 December 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'm finding my VII FW190-D stalls out quite often trying to climb high enough to chase bombers, tier VIII jets, or some heavies, as does the Lightning F (both w/ engine tuning + engine guru 1).

I also got handled roughly by a player-controlled A26 when flying the P38F on a desert map earlier tonight, losing both engines alongside tail and wing damage before another player and I managed to gun it down.

 

The (Chinese) VII Mustang can probably climb high enough, but isn't exactly swimming in firepower even with a sight equipped plus Marksman 1 & 2; but in future matches I'll probably ignore high flying bombers altogether.

 

It really sucks to see that they condamn the fw-190d as a multirole with altitude nerfed.
Fw-190d is essentially a high altitude fighter.
The p47N had a better high altitude supercharger than the mustang.
Same for the f-94d starfire, which was essentially a high altitude bomber-killer. Now it struggles to get on the same altitude as those bombers.

Pogo68 #31 Posted 02 December 2017 - 08:04 PM

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View Postjack_wdw, on 02 December 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

 

It really sucks to see that they condamn the fw-190d as a multirole with altitude nerfed.
Fw-190d is essentially a high altitude fighter.
The p47N had a better high altitude supercharger than the mustang.
Same for the f-94d starfire, which was essentially a high altitude bomber-killer. Now it struggles to get on the same altitude as those bombers.

 

Honestly in RL A6M2 zero pilots developed a attack that required the pilot to fly his plane above the bombers and dive down at the bombers.

This was to allow the pilot to bypass the armor that protected the B-17 and B-29 crews.

So it burns me that in this game, the A6M2 can't reach the A-26.

 

IRL the A-26 had a Service Ceiling (altitude where it's climb rate is less than 100ft/min) of 22,000 ft (6,700 m) while the A6M2-21 32,810ft (10,000m)

What's the max alt of the A6M2 in this game??


Edited by Pogo68, 02 December 2017 - 08:08 PM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Bear_82 #32 Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:57 PM

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View PostPogo68, on 02 December 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

. . .

What's the max alt of the A6M2 in this game??

 

​whatever WG decides it is

HazeGrayUnderway #33 Posted 03 December 2017 - 09:04 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 01 December 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

 

Any of the multi-roles you mentioned are too limited by altitude.

Even the 190.:facepalm:

 

 

Which is funny, because the Germans fattened up the 190 with armor and cannons specifically for intercepting high altitude bombers.

HoIo #34 Posted 03 December 2017 - 12:57 PM

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As long as you keep bomber interception in your game plan throughout the whole game (aka, staying at a medium altitude at the very least) when in the FW 190, you can get up to the altitude needed. You might stall out for a second or so if you go straight up from mid altitude. But if you were already hitting yellow, then you should be fine. This is especially true for the Dora.

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