Jump to content


Aircraft Stats in-depth analysis


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

mnbv_fockewulfe #1 Posted 24 November 2017 - 02:12 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

I'll be using this thread to display and discuss my findings of aircraft's performance and how they affect the meta.

My first analysis is the comparison of the stats given off of the comparison part of the web site, 

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 24 November 2017 - 02:38 PM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 24 November 2017 - 03:26 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1361 battles
  • 1,089
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012
Ooooh. Thanks! This'll be great :p

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 24 November 2017 - 03:26 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1361 battles
  • 1,089
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012
Are there any soft/hidden stats to these planes?

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


gmann14 #4 Posted 24 November 2017 - 05:56 AM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 2681 battles
  • 27
  • Member since:
    10-12-2011

Super helpful and Thank you

Are you planning on adding other tiers as well?



mnbv_fockewulfe #5 Posted 24 November 2017 - 01:10 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 24 November 2017 - 03:26 AM, said:

Are there any soft/hidden stats to these planes?

 

Yes, for example, your maximum damage output depends on your range (i.e the closer you are the more the bullets hit and the higher muzzle velocity they have).

Another one is turn time, this has to be found empirically but your turn time depends on your speed and altitude. The graph of turn time looks a bit like a bell curve. The radius of the turn should also be able to be found from this.

Climb rate depends on your speed and angle.

Acceleration with and without boost also has to be found empirically.

It will take a long time to compile but it'll certainly be useful stuff. 

 

Yes I'll be adding more tiers, it will just take a while to get through one.


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 24 November 2017 - 01:12 PM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


J311yfish #6 Posted 24 November 2017 - 02:32 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 363 battles
  • 1,115
  • [343] 343
  • Member since:
    12-13-2013
Neat

Tech tree projects:  JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  Italy    France  //  Sweden    Finland (skins)    Poland    China    Brazil    UNITED STATES  //  Roadmap

Map proposals:  Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover  //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


Mercsn #7 Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:00 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1069 battles
  • 2,966
  • Member since:
    04-17-2013

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 23 November 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

Are there any soft/hidden stats to these planes?

 

View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 24 November 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

 

Yes, for example, your maximum damage output depends on your range (i.e the closer you are the more the bullets hit and the higher muzzle velocity they have).

Another one is turn time, this has to be found empirically but your turn time depends on your speed and altitude. The graph of turn time looks a bit like a bell curve. The radius of the turn should also be able to be found from this.

Climb rate depends on your speed and angle.

Acceleration with and without boost also has to be found empirically.

It will take a long time to compile but it'll certainly be useful stuff.

 

Yes I'll be adding more tiers, it will just take a while to get through one.

 

We learned in Beta that auto-aim coefficient was a soft stat and could differ for each class, caliber, and aircraft.

 


 

With the way the new marksman perks are worded and the fact that somebody recently reminded me of a website that had pulled out this data from the game files, I would imagine auto-aim is still a soft stat that (as another player suggested) is boosted by the perks.   So, a GA with auto-aim coefficient of zero would benefit very little from having marksmen perks (simply a reduction of dispersion), while a craft/weapon combo that high auto-aim coefficient would have a much greater benefit from marksmen perk, for example.


 

This is definitely a hidden stat, that if actually still present in the game, should definitely be included.

 

 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

trikke #8 Posted 01 December 2017 - 03:07 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1523 battles
  • 965
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

beautiful job, FW!

 

I would love to help in some way, just PM me and we'll jump on curse, discord or TS and just tell me what i can do to help!

 

i'm available to help US EST 9am to 3pm


Edited by trikke, 01 December 2017 - 03:09 PM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

mnbv_fockewulfe #9 Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:42 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

I'm not too confident about these results.

Blue is Spit I, orange is Spit V.

What I did was pull the stick all the way back and adjust the throttle to get the desired speed. Speed varied by about plus or minus 7 km/h. Time was rounded to 1 digit and was me letting go of the stick with one hand to start a timer on my phone.

The turn circle was determined by eyeballing when the plane course projector on the radar passed one of the compass points.


 

What I think we're seeing has to do with the optimum speed differences between the planes. The Sipt V's is higher so it will less gradually have a slower turn.

Ways to improve the test:

record the training room and determine variances in speed, beginning/end of turn, and time by the frame.


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


trikke #10 Posted 17 December 2017 - 02:28 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1523 battles
  • 965
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

crap, i'm not so good at reading graphs...   is each dot a complete tight circle at the dif airspeeds?

 

if so, the V consistently turns 8 second circles from 180 until 300 km/h IAS, and still-phenomenal nine seconds at 340?

 

while the spit 1 tight turn drops off dramatically at around 300?      (note to metric-impaired fellow muricans...  180 km/h = 112 mph, 300 = 186 mph)

 

 

i never think to check my IAS while in a DF... until it's too late

 

dammit, yet another post-it note goes up on the monitor bezel, just to be ignored             maybe a red one, and use a sharpie this time?

 


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

mnbv_fockewulfe #11 Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:10 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013
Each dot is a full circle. Yes. I'm not to confident with my results for the Spitfire 1. I may have been looping up and down more than turning level. I'm going to try again more accurately.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


mnbv_fockewulfe #12 Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:30 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

Here's a better graph for the Spitfire 1.

As I get more data I'll update the graph.


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 17 December 2017 - 09:38 PM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


mnbv_fockewulfe #13 Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:43 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

Allow me to explain the meaning of the graph.

On the ingame UI:

Stall speed for the Spit I is at 120 km/h.

Yellow speed is from 130km/h to 170 km/h.

White speed is from 170km/h to 400km/h.

Speed then goes to yellow again from 400km/h to 600km/h.

Red again from 600km/h to 680km/h.

What the graph shows is the time it takes to complete a full level 360 degree turn at a specific speed.

And what you get is something quite different from how it used to be.

Here's an outdated graph showing the same variables.

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.eu/index.php?/topic/18947-thrust-and-extended-flaps/

As you can see, turning time got significantly worse the slower you go. Which, makes sense. You're going slower which means you will take more time to complete the turn.

However, take a look at this turn radius graph.

Turning radius stays consistent below 300km/h because the longer turning time, and the smaller circumference of the turn you should get from going slower cancel out.

Have a look at a turn radius graph for 2.0

Your best turn is literally at 170km/h. Because the turn time stays the same, and therefore your circumference becomes smaller.

If this isn't different flight physics than I don't know what is.  


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 19 December 2017 - 03:45 AM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


Mercsn #14 Posted 19 December 2017 - 07:46 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1069 battles
  • 2,966
  • Member since:
    04-17-2013

As I noted in another recent thread where someone mentioned that Priola said the FM didn't change, just characteristics, I said that she may not have been entirely forthcoming and that in the past, besides their secrecy in development issues, WG has been blatantly dishonest.  Get someone to post this on the EU or RU forums and WG will say this is some bug they are addressing.  Just like when I first caught them in pictures, lying about the inclusion of aim-assist.

:facepalm:

:child:

:amazed:


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

ARCNA442 #15 Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:20 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 700 battles
  • 64
  • Member since:
    09-10-2016

View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 19 December 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

Your best turn is literally at 170km/h. Because the turn time stays the same, and therefore your circumference becomes smaller.

If this isn't different flight physics than I don't know what is.  

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The numbers are different but your graphs look to me like they are showing the same general behavior in both versions of the game.

comtedumas #16 Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:28 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 3927 battles
  • 694
  • [FK] FK
  • Member since:
    04-11-2016

View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 23 November 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

I'll be using this thread to display and discuss my findings of aircraft's performance and how they affect the meta.

My first analysis is the comparison of the stats given off of the comparison part of the web site, 

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

on one side you have metric numbers, could you put imperial on the other?  

trikke #17 Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:57 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1523 battles
  • 965
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 18 December 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

Your best turn is literally at 170km/h. Because the turn time stays the same, and therefore your circumference becomes smaller.

If this isn't different flight physics than I don't know what is.  

 

170 km/h is about 100 mph, which is not far from stall speed


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

mnbv_fockewulfe #18 Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:44 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

View PostARCNA442, on 19 December 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The numbers are different but your graphs look to me like they are showing the same general behavior in both versions of the game.

 

What the graph for 2.0 turn radius of the spitfire shows is that lift increases as you get slower until it doesn't. That isn't anywhere close to how it works IRL and the game before 2.0

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


mnbv_fockewulfe #19 Posted 20 December 2017 - 02:13 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

View Postcomtedumas, on 19 December 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

on one side you have metric numbers, could you put imperial on the other?

 

I'll reformat the OP to better display the information I collect. And yes, I can put it in imperial.

Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 20 December 2017 - 02:19 AM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


mnbv_fockewulfe #20 Posted 22 December 2017 - 05:59 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 2,304
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    12-06-2013

I've got a hunch why BnZ is less effective in 2.0.

Climb rates were increased by more than 100%. Before when the highest climb rate for a fighter in T6 was around 24m/s, planes in the same tier now climb at around 50m/s. Altitude compression wasn't changed as far as I know, which means that before if you how 1,000m above your opponent, you actually had 3,000m of potential energy over him. Now its easier for planes to climb that 1,000m, but the dive rate for planes wasn't changed (speculation in need of testing). This means that you get the same amount of kinetic energy as you would before, and those rates are balanced for having half the climb rate as we have now. This means when you dive 1,000m you don't get more kinetic energy than the opponent below you. So when you climb away, he matches you in kinetic energy and has a similar climb rate meaning you can't escape by climbing.  


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users