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SpiritFoxMY #21 Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:46 AM

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Thanks HMG! I'd promise to fly top cover for you but I think you're way outside my tier :p

 

General question - is th Improved Radiator upgrade worth it? I mean, not in silver but it takes up a slot I could use for something else. I thought it might make a good add on for the Focke Wulf but it seems to have little effect on the Boost cooldown for the BnZ crowd as you're not really holding back the throttle as much (since speed is life).

 

Would it work better if I used the Idle/Flaps key during a steep dive to recover boost for a climbout? Or is it a better add on for a TnB plane which will have the throttle at min and the flaps at max most of the time?


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SpiritFoxMY #22 Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:48 PM

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Got the Stuka... are all 30mm cannons this slow firing? O.o fire rate is low, velocity is low and... the damage on impact is less than devastating? I hit an Il-15 three times and he was still flying. 

 

Should I circle around at the fringes of a target and try to snipe in or just dive into the thick of it? Sniping from a distance might seem like the safe option but its still within aggro range of the ADFs floating around. OTOH, the fire rate of the 37mm AT guns is slow enough and damage low enough that I cannot take out a cluster of buildings in one pass if I dive in and that WILL draw the whole shebang in on me.

 

A more general question: at the moment, it seems that GAAs have a hard time making an impact on a match, even when left alone to try and strafe out a cap. The German GAAs aren't suitable for that, maybe the Soviets are much better? How do I contribute more to the team? lumbering off to try and farm a cap by myself or tailing the main blob and rack up as many ground kills to hasten the cap?


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So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


LMG #23 Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:55 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 21 November 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

Got the Stuka... are all 30mm cannons this slow firing? O.o fire rate is low, velocity is low and... the damage on impact is less than devastating? I hit an Il-15 three times and he was still flying. 

 

Should I circle around at the fringes of a target and try to snipe in or just dive into the thick of it? Sniping from a distance might seem like the safe option but its still within aggro range of the ADFs floating around. OTOH, the fire rate of the 37mm AT guns is slow enough and damage low enough that I cannot take out a cluster of buildings in one pass if I dive in and that WILL draw the whole shebang in on me.

 

A more general question: at the moment, it seems that GAAs have a hard time making an impact on a match, even when left alone to try and strafe out a cap. The German GAAs aren't suitable for that, maybe the Soviets are much better? How do I contribute more to the team? lumbering off to try and farm a cap by myself or tailing the main blob and rack up as many ground kills to hasten the cap?

 

Ok, in order:
1) I'm not quite sure if all 3Xmm cannons shoot that slow. The Ju 88 P's 50mm cannon fires faster for whatever reason. The soviet 37mm and 45mm cannons on GAAs fire at the same speed. I think the cannons on the Yaks fire slower. It depends from gun to gun. That said, the damage is not bad per-se if you hit with both cannons. However, it's still not enough to deal with armored ground targets, as those can eat up 4-5 volleys from those 37mm cannons, sometimes even 6. The Ju 88 P works the same with the 50mm cannon, with the only exception being that it's more consistent since you only have to hit one shot, not two.

 

2) In general it's not really safe to dive with a GAA. It's better to embrace your slugginess and use your flaps to get more time to shoot at ground targets. With the Junkers, I suggest first taking out AA guns, then focusing on any ground target that only has "soft" objects (the ones marked with a dot). After that, take on the more armored ground targets, just be warned it could take a couple of passes even when using flaps. Try to do one pass over the area, shoot stuff, fly away a good distance to make use of your cannons' range, then turn around for another pass. And please avoid trying to take down AA emplacements that have bunkers, those are armored and don't give enough capture points to make it worthwhile. Also, keep an eye on heavilly damaged ground targets, your cannons can finish them off swiftly.

 

And yes, you will get chased by pretty much every air defense aircraft in the base, just don't panic and keep blowing stuff up. If you get the chance, you can also try to take them down in a head-on fight or with the reargunner

 

3) GAAs in general don't have as much of an impact on a match as other aircraft mostly due to how easy it is to capture an area through air kills. Soviet GAAs are better at destroying ground targets as their bombs and rockets make short work of armored structures, the ones the german GAAs struggle against. How to contribute to a team varies from battle to battle. I personally try to sneak past enemy lines and take down control zones, or soften them up for a future attack if I won't be able to capture it. But you can also try to join the fray of battle and take down targets of oportunity, like hostile AA guns, weakened ground targets and enemy GAAs (anti-GAA is where the german GAAs shine), or even take pot shots at fighters flying by with your cannons. I even heard of someone around here that they took down a flight of bombers with a Junker :amazed:


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SpiritFoxMY #24 Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:24 PM

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A belated thanks to HMG for the tips.

I've been tootling around with the Stuka for a bit now and...I think I've gotten the hang of it? Took a bit to memorize the basic layouts of the bases so I know what building clusters to go for. But, man is this plane a pain to fly. It really doesn't seem to handle Air to Air well because of the low velocity, low fire rate, rapid overheating guns and the often funky hitbox of enemy planes ( a half dozen times I'd swear the shots went THROUGH the target without damaging them, while other times, I thought it was a miss, but the shells took a huge chunk of his HP off a second later).

 

The Stuka is also a plane where Gold Ammo actually seems to make a difference as it takes the required shots to kill an armored ground target down from four - five shots to two. Loading gold, the Stuka CAN clear bases by itself

 

I also took advantage of the RM34 for 10 hanger slots deal on the premium shop and grabbed the Soviet GAA to try out. Wasn't expecting great things, but man, that thing feels so much better than the Stuka. It can't handle ground targets as efficiently as the Stuka, but man that thing feels so much lighter than the Stuka. It feels like a more nimble Eule and its firepower is to match.

 

Its also a surprisingly decent air combat plane - its firepower is sufficient to make it a surprising off-fighter. I scored five kills in my first flight in the BSh-2 which is a helluva thing to try on a ground attacker bug I'd scored four kills in the Stuka as well. 

 

Here's hoping the Ju88 will make up for the epic frustration that is the -87 G model in the game. 


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LMG #25 Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:45 PM

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23mm cannons are, in my eyes, the best weapons for air-to-air combat. Which also kinda makes them great tools for anti-GAA, so if you run the big guns on the ILs do try to steer clear from other ILs using the 23mm cannons (the opposite also applies :playing:)

 

The Ju 88 P starts off as a better stuka with the same guns and better handling, and later turns into a (for a lack of a better word) more better stuka with a single 50mm cannon. The  number of shots to destroy ground targets remains the same, but the gun overheats slower, shoots faster, has more range, and packs more punch than the two 37s combined. After some practice I can actually take Mining Facilities without too much trouble, though it still does not compare to the 2-3 pass captures I can get on my ILs. The key is firing from a distance while keeping your speed very low, and making sure to not overheat the guns (thank goodness big cannons cool down quickly). If you didn't enjoy the Stuka, I can't say you'll enjoy the Ju 88 P, but in my case I've grown to like it, and it taught me how to properly use my guns in 2.0


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pyantoryng #26 Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

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When you hit high tier, the impact an unchecked GA can make on a match significantly increase as they begin to be able to reliably solo sectors.

 

The IL-10 at T7 with its superb firepower and existent maneuverability starts that trend...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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LMG #27 Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:59 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 25 November 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

When you hit high tier, the impact an unchecked GA can make on a match significantly increase as they begin to be able to reliably solo sectors.

 

The IL-10 at T7 with its superb firepower and existent maneuverability starts that trend...

 

In my case I went with the IL-8. It can take Mining Facilities in one pass if I get the angle right :medal:
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SpiritFoxMY #28 Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:45 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 25 November 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

When you hit high tier, the impact an unchecked GA can make on a match significantly increase as they begin to be able to reliably solo sectors.

 

The IL-10 at T7 with its superb firepower and existent maneuverability starts that trend...

 

But that's the Soviet GAA line, right? At the moment the BSh-2 doesn't have firepower of that magnitude; in fact its really not too different from the Eule, except it has no tail gun and one less pair of MGs in exchange for better maneuverability.

 

I guess I could ask if German GAAs can do the same, but I'll hop over to HMG's GAA thread and refresh my memory on that.


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Destroyer_Suzukaze #29 Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:15 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 25 November 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

But that's the Soviet GAA line, right? At the moment the BSh-2 doesn't have firepower of that magnitude; in fact its really not too different from the Eule, except it has no tail gun and one less pair of MGs in exchange for better maneuverability.

 

I guess I could ask if German GAAs can do the same, but I'll hop over to HMG's GAA thread and refresh my memory on that.

 

Universal ammo makes a huge difference I have found in penetrating armored targets. Germans have better cannons but lack ordnance, Soviets have rockets and bombs and can wipe out a base faster. You need to be pinpoint to make the German cannons work for you. Takes some practice

SpiritFoxMY #30 Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:14 AM

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View PostLMG, on 25 November 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

The key is firing from a distance while keeping your speed very low, and making sure to not overheat the guns (thank goodness big cannons cool down quickly). If you didn't enjoy the Stuka, I can't say you'll enjoy the Ju 88 P, but in my case I've grown to like it, and it taught me how to properly use my guns in 2.0

 

If only they'd add a purchasable upgrade module like "Improved Cooling Jacket" that I could slap onto my guns to decrease the time it takes for the weapon to cool down...

 

The -87 is kinda frustrating because it cannot cripple a base in one or two passes and I find that solo-pushing a base, I get three passes at max before the ADFs and AA emplacements finally whittle me down. Its completely defenseless and sluggish, with a weak tailgun and forward weapons unsuited for air to air combat (although when they hit its hilarious, I give you that). Most importantly, I feel like I have very little impact on a game and have had to suffer through almost a dozen losses in a row since last night. Fighters at least you can wail away at enemy fighters trying to cap in a furious last stand and rack up a good score even with a loss. The Stuka ... the only option is to wrap a hachimaki around your head and take off to the accompaniment of cheering schoolchildren on your final service to the Emperor. Or Fuhrer or whatever.

 

I like the idea of the German GAAs (waiting for bombs to reload is a pain) but so far the Stuka is just an exercise of praying for your team to not suck because you can't do much about it.


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LMG #31 Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:15 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 26 November 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

The -87 is kinda frustrating because it cannot cripple a base in one or two passes and I find that solo-pushing a base, I get three passes at max before the ADFs and AA emplacements finally whittle me down. Its completely defenseless and sluggish, with a weak tailgun and forward weapons unsuited for air to air combat (although when they hit its hilarious, I give you that). Most importantly, I feel like I have very little impact on a game and have had to suffer through almost a dozen losses in a row since last night. Fighters at least you can wail away at enemy fighters trying to cap in a furious last stand and rack up a good score even with a loss. The Stuka ... the only option is to wrap a hachimaki around your head and take off to the accompaniment of cheering schoolchildren on your final service to the Emperor. Or Fuhrer or whatever.

 

I like the idea of the German GAAs (waiting for bombs to reload is a pain) but so far the Stuka is just an exercise of praying for your team to not suck because you can't do much about it.

 

I always take out the low-altitude AA guns first whenever I run into a base. I only take out the high altitude AA if they have 3 soft buildings around them or if there's friendlies flying up high. And yes, hoping your team doesn't horribly die too quickly is a standard thing for GAAs; we can't really do much of anything as our cannons are programed to not be as good as the fighters'. I think I said it before, but it only takes one competent fighter to stop a GAA dead on its tracks. That's why I've learned how to sneak around the enemy and hit targets mostly solo or with minimal assistance. You'll rarely see me in the heat of battle unless I can't really afford to do anything else


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SpiritFoxMY #32 Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:37 AM

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View PostLMG, on 26 November 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

 

I always take out the low-altitude AA guns first whenever I run into a base. I only take out the high altitude AA if they have 3 soft buildings around them or if there's friendlies flying up high. And yes, hoping your team doesn't horribly die too quickly is a standard thing for GAAs; we can't really do much of anything as our cannons are programed to not be as good as the fighters'. I think I said it before, but it only takes one competent fighter to stop a GAA dead on its tracks. That's why I've learned how to sneak around the enemy and hit targets mostly solo or with minimal assistance. You'll rarely see me in the heat of battle unless I can't really afford to do anything else

 

I... actually can't tell high altitude AA guns from low altitude AA guns. Right now I just pick off the target group that's softest, but I'm also getting picked off by the bloody heavy ADFs because I'm attacking a base alone and Beaufighters chew right through me. 

 

I'm just not very good with these things


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For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Destroyer_Suzukaze #33 Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:38 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 25 November 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

 

If only they'd add a purchasable upgrade module like "Improved Cooling Jacket" that I could slap onto my guns to decrease the time it takes for the weapon to cool down...

 

The -87 is kinda frustrating because it cannot cripple a base in one or two passes and I find that solo-pushing a base, I get three passes at max before the ADFs and AA emplacements finally whittle me down. Its completely defenseless and sluggish, with a weak tailgun and forward weapons unsuited for air to air combat (although when they hit its hilarious, I give you that). Most importantly, I feel like I have very little impact on a game and have had to suffer through almost a dozen losses in a row since last night. Fighters at least you can wail away at enemy fighters trying to cap in a furious last stand and rack up a good score even with a loss. The Stuka ... the only option is to wrap a hachimaki around your head and take off to the accompaniment of cheering schoolchildren on your final service to the Emperor. Or Fuhrer or whatever.

 

I like the idea of the German GAAs (waiting for bombs to reload is a pain) but so far the Stuka is just an exercise of praying for your team to not suck because you can't do much about it.

 

I used to think that too when I first flew the Ju87. But as I made my way through the plane, I found myself putting up numbers.  It's a different play style than the IL2 series, but you have a rear gunner at T5, it is faster so you get to the sector much faster, and it handles so much better. The cannons have great range, and once you get used to sniping with them, like I said you put up good numbers.  Here is a game from today in my Ju88, which has the same playstyle - all cannons, no ordnance. 

 

May not be your cup of tea, but the Stuka is very capable. Loved it by the time I finished. 

 



pyantoryng #34 Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:05 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 26 November 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

 

But that's the Soviet GAA line, right? At the moment the BSh-2 doesn't have firepower of that magnitude; in fact its really not too different from the Eule, except it has no tail gun and one less pair of MGs in exchange for better maneuverability.

 

I guess I could ask if German GAAs can do the same, but I'll hop over to HMG's GAA thread and refresh my memory on that.

 

All the way up in 1099B-2 where its big gun can knock armored targets out in 6 shots with 4x250kg supplementing it. The 265 and 329 has iffy firepower on targets that are probably better suited to shoot other GAs.

 

Soviet GA are barely decent against armored targets once they exhaust their ordnance, but they mow just about everything else they can get their guns on (with the exception of big gun variants that is). Even in low tier I found myself too often shooting at planes with my LBSh because nobody can do it...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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LMG #35 Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:15 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 26 November 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

 

I... actually can't tell high altitude AA guns from low altitude AA guns. Right now I just pick off the target group that's softest, but I'm also getting picked off by the bloody heavy ADFs because I'm attacking a base alone and Beaufighters chew right through me. 

 

I'm just not very good with these things

 

Low-altitude AA is marked with a regular triangle. High-altitude AA is marked with what seems to be the multirole fighter icon. Both can be taken down with one volley of your 37s (I believe both shells have to hit). Also, lately I've been started gunning for the armored ground targets a bit more with the Ju 88 P; you just have to learn to make use of your range, and control your weapon heat and your airspeed.

 

If you need some practice, try going into training mode and capture some garrisons. They have 2 low-altitude AA and 2 high-altitude AA, so you can see the difference between them. Garrisons also have 2 armored ground targets with 3 soft and 3 armored buildings each. Try to take one of those ground targets in as few passes as possible. Atm I can destroy one of those in one pass on my Ju 88 P :honoring:


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Destroyer_Suzukaze #36 Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:23 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 25 November 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

 

I... actually can't tell high altitude AA guns from low altitude AA guns. Right now I just pick off the target group that's softest, but I'm also getting picked off by the bloody heavy ADFs because I'm attacking a base alone and Beaufighters chew right through me. 

 

I'm just not very good with these things

 

Get Protection Expert for the pilot first skill. Put improved covering, additional armored plates, and reinforced airframe as your upgrades and you won't go down as easy. The first skill on your gunner should be armorer.  Map flaps to a key (I use "E"). Someone comes up behind you, slow down. Learn the angles of your rear gunner and keep the plane angles so he has a shot. They will stall well before you. Try not to go somewhere alone. 

 

Play the objective. I just got out of a game where the other team I am sure is frustrated because they outfought us. Their top 3 guys each had 8-9k combat points. I was second on my team with 4600. We grabbed the missile base first. I took two ground targets. Then I watched where the missiles were targeted, and camped outside the sector. And when it was low, ran in by myself and destroyed 1 ground target. Flipped the base. I finished with 5 ground targets destroyed, and 4 sectors captured. 

 

The previous game we had 3 of the 4 sectors, so once squall line hit, I stayed over the airfield and killed 4 planes as they came in to take it. The auto defense bots would engage, and I would get behind and hit them with my cannons. Now as GA, the temptation is to go for that last red sector. But we were ahead on points and sectors, and so my job was to stay alive. Yesterday I was in a game and was getting shot up, so I got the heck out of Dodge. Had 27 HP left. They had 3 sectors to our 1, but we were ahead on points and I hid as the last plane left. They had 6 planes but we won. 

 

You never know when you will be that last plane left. Play the objective, play it smart, and don't through your plane away. Follow other GAs (your team or other) and when they partially kill a target, take out the rest of it. When you are in the same sector as an enemy GA, do not partially take out a target yourself and make it easy on them.

 

Watch this video and learn what the bots will do. 

 

Strategery is how you will succeed



trikke #37 Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:51 PM

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View PostLMG, on 26 November 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

Low-altitude AA is marked with a regular triangle. High-altitude AA is marked with what seems to be the multirole fighter icon.

 

the high altitude AA icon is shaped like a house, or an american baseball home plate

 

when flying GA, l first aim for the nearest low level AA since the high altitude won't aim at me, but i try to align myself to hit them all


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SpiritFoxMY #38 Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:42 PM

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Thanks guys.

I'm probably too in love with my 190 A-5 to give these GAAs a fair shake - I do prefer them over the Soviet GAAs at the moment and the 88P isn't a bad airplane even with the stock 37s. 

 

I'm learning which targets have the most value as well - seems like there's always a hardened cluster of buildings in the cap that grants a disproportionate amount of cap points and that's the best place to lay some eggs or send some shots downrange. The 37s overheat too much to take this cluster out in a single pass, though. Hopefully the 50 will do better - I'm saving up XP to get that.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 26 November 2017 - 05:43 PM.

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And a laurel to crown each end


pyantoryng #39 Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:13 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 26 November 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

Thanks guys.

I'm probably too in love with my 190 A-5 to give these GAAs a fair shake - I do prefer them over the Soviet GAAs at the moment and the 88P isn't a bad airplane even with the stock 37s. 

 

I'm learning which targets have the most value as well - seems like there's always a hardened cluster of buildings in the cap that grants a disproportionate amount of cap points and that's the best place to lay some eggs or send some shots downrange. The 37s overheat too much to take this cluster out in a single pass, though. Hopefully the 50 will do better - I'm saving up XP to get that.

 

Remember, armored targets tend to cough out more points than the unarmored ones, but the latter go down MUCH faster.

 

I'll just say that the 5cm on the tier 9 is very lovely...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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Destroyer_Suzukaze #40 Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:06 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 26 November 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

Thanks guys.

I'm probably too in love with my 190 A-5 to give these GAAs a fair shake - I do prefer them over the Soviet GAAs at the moment and the 88P isn't a bad airplane even with the stock 37s. 

 

I'm learning which targets have the most value as well - seems like there's always a hardened cluster of buildings in the cap that grants a disproportionate amount of cap points and that's the best place to lay some eggs or send some shots downrange. The 37s overheat too much to take this cluster out in a single pass, though. Hopefully the 50 will do better - I'm saving up XP to get that.

 

If you love the FW by all means, play it. I tried but could not make it work. I need to get back to it - I need a bat plane. How do you make the FW work for you?

 

I love the 50mm. You start hitting targets at 1400n with it. I started a new crew yesterday to train up so I can keep the Ju88 and have a decent crew. 






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