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Unraveler #41 Posted 16 November 2017 - 09:23 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 15 November 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

Regarding aim-assist...I think it's more tied into the perks now. Although, seat of the pants (and knowing WG, especially if they're going more "casual") tells me that there's still some small "gravity" tied to each craft.  I tried a speed build for my fw-190 which didn't include marksmen perks.  This was rough on me as I wasn't able to land enough damage on high speed passes.  So, I went back to marksmen and noticed that I'd get more hits on a pass.  Sure, I was a little bit slower, but my aim wasn't any better and I was scoring more hits.

 

I have literally been chasing people in my La-x planes and been thinking, "I should not be hitting that guy with this lead".  When the match is a comfortable victory and the bot is much less maneuverable, I've played around with it a bit, varying my shooting lead as well as aiming off his centerline to see where I can still score hits...hits that really shouldn't land.  I'd really be interested in testing it out in a training room.  My guess would be that you need a red plane to try it out on, green planes probably wouldn't have the same "gravity", if it exists at all now (I'm not discounting "placebo" effect, until I have seen aim-assist proved or disproved in the current version).

 

I think you're on the right track. On a certain non-WG website that lists comprehensive stats on planes (and tanks and ships) each gun has many values which are not displayed in-game. Dispersion is one such parameter, and probably works similarly to how it does in Tanks. Another listed parameter is Autoaim. Some weapons have a relatively high value for this (Bf 109E's synchro MGs, for example) and they don't have to be uniform on any particular plane (Bf 109E's hub cannon has a lower autoaim value). The system appears to apply this autoaim mechanism to correct for any imperfect aim of the player. However, not all weapons have this attribute! Anyone who has tried downing enemy planes in a Ju 88P or IL-2 37mm will know how frustratingly difficult it can be to land hits. Looking at the stats for these particular GA weapons, Autoaim is listed as zero. So even though their Dispersion is very good, without autoaim assistance they are quite poor at anti-air capability (which is fair enough, considering how powerful they would be if they were easy to hit with).

 

The Heavy Yak line cannons feature excellent Dispersion and moderate Autoaim. Unlike the big GA guns, these cannons actually do hit enemy planes fairly reliably. You still have to aim properly, but they are nowhere near as flaky as their GA counterparts.

 

Marksman skills and Gunsight equipment enhance (reduce) the dispersion circle so that more shots land closer to where you're aiming and I imagine this works especially well for weapons that have a high autoaim value. For weapons with low (or zero) Autoaim, it might actually make it harder to hit things if your aim isn't perfect. The Dev blog notes hint at this:

 

Block Quote

It is worth noting that decreasing the spread angle of projectiles can actually make aiming harder for some types of aircraft. Most notable are machines equipped with machinegun batteries that are quite forgiving in terms of skill-dependency. Installing sights will make hitting the target a bit harder for them. Improved sights don’t do much for aircraft equipped with long range high caliber cannons. At the same time machinegunners, as well as aircraft with close-range high caliber cannons will get a nice boost to their shooting efficiency, especially at medium range — if you manage to keep the target in your sights.

 

 

Furthermore, there's another interesting note on Marksman II:

 

Block Quote

Marksman II (3 skill points) — further decreases weapon spread by 5% and improves accuracy when shooting at a maneuverable target by 10%. In terms of game mechanics this means that you will score 10% more hits when aiming at a lead-compensating aiming point imprecisely.

 

 

10% more hits when aiming imprecisely? It could be that the 10% bonus from this skill is applied to a weapon's Autoaim value directly. This is important, because the aforementioned GAs would get no benefit at all (10% of zero is still zero). They would still get the 5% improved dispersion, of course.



Mercsn #42 Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:59 AM

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@Unraveler, very interesting points.  Thanks for reminding me of those substats that aren't listed. I forgot they had different values per plane and such.

Edited by Mercsn, 16 November 2017 - 11:21 AM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Catch21 #43 Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:34 PM

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View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 16 November 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

You should never put concealing livery on GA. Attack aircraft as a class take less AA damage and have the capacity to kill all the AA on a cap point. You should wipe out most, if not ALL AA on your first pass, and AA can't damage you if it's dead, making livery useless

Given AA positions are generally at the 4 corners++ of bases (makes tactical sense) and I'm looking to try to help turn over a sector ASAP, I usually focus on biggest (armored) targets. I'd hope the little guys would sort AA positions for me. And the fact they're at the 4 corners++ also makes a 1st pass in something inherently ungainly/unwieldy to take all of them out nigh on impossible.

 

Any which way, either because I haven't/can't- and others didn't- take out all corner++ flak positions, it seems to me I'm usually taking significant AA fire (as in everyone wants a piece of my [edited]) so Concealed Livery I seems useful. But thanks a million for the suggestion, I'll bear it in mind next few times out and double check, then maybe use Improved Covering I instead.



WafflesOfWrath #44 Posted 17 November 2017 - 05:38 AM

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View PostCatch21, on 16 November 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

Given AA positions are generally at the 4 corners++ of bases (makes tactical sense) and I'm looking to try to help turn over a sector ASAP, I usually focus on biggest (armored) targets. I'd hope the little guys would sort AA positions for me. And the fact they're at the 4 corners++ also makes a 1st pass in something inherently ungainly/unwieldy to take all of them out nigh on impossible.

 

Any which way, either because I haven't/can't- and others didn't- take out all corner++ flak positions, it seems to me I'm usually taking significant AA fire (as in everyone wants a piece of my [edited]) so Concealed Livery I seems useful. But thanks a million for the suggestion, I'll bear it in mind next few times out and double check, then maybe use Improved Covering I instead.

 

AA does actually prioritize GA over all other aircraft, meaning you're going to be tanking it for your team, but this is only low-alt AA. High- alt will still be unable to fire on you at your low altitude. You want to kill low-alt AA first (triangles) and then high-alt (home plate symbol) if it's a cap that's going to be contested for quite some time. 

Going straight for the jugular and destroying high-value targets is only truly viable on certain points, such as factories or some variants of military bases, for a point like a garrison or an airfield there's mostly low-value target clusters and some AA. I still prioritize AA as the first thing to kill (1.9 force of habit) because that's less damage hurting your teammates, and dead teammates = less cap meter (which hurt your efforts in the first place). I do see what you're saying, though.

If you have, say, 75% of a factory capped and you suddenly draw a bead on the massive, high-value target in the center...yeah, you should unload on that thing and secure the point. Each method has its own merits. Also remember that AA is less of a threat the lower tier you are. If you're in an il-2(mod), you might be able to ignore it for a bit.

Edited by WafflesOfWrath, 17 November 2017 - 05:41 AM.


ARCNA442 #45 Posted 19 November 2017 - 07:24 PM

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New question about recommended equipment - why wouldn't you put Improved Aircraft Polish on the P-38J?

 

It gives you +25% acceleration when diving which I have found dramatically improves the plane's ability to escape from bad situations.



SithSteel #46 Posted 20 November 2017 - 02:27 AM

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Hi. So, what's the rule of thumb on the radiator and engine tuning? Should I continue using them on my XP-44, Yak-7, or Fw 190 A? Given the good boost on these planes, especially the XP-44 and Fw 190 A, I figured a faster recharging engine would be useful. 



ARCNA442 #47 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:57 AM

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A 5% boost in engine power doesn't really seem worth it to me but I am rapidly growing to appreciate the radiator.

 

I've only played the American lines, but now my thinking for multirole fighters is: radiator / lightweight airframe / gunsight. Since multiroles don't really excel in any one area, I figure the equipment should reflect their versatility and boost speed, maneuverability, and DPS.



SithSteel #48 Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:38 PM

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View PostARCNA442, on 20 November 2017 - 01:57 AM, said:

A 5% boost in engine power doesn't really seem worth it to me but I am rapidly growing to appreciate the radiator.

 

I've only played the American lines, but now my thinking for multirole fighters is: radiator / lightweight airframe / gunsight. Since multiroles don't really excel in any one area, I figure the equipment should reflect their versatility and boost speed, maneuverability, and DPS.

 

Which American multirole do you think fits best with the radiator? Or do they benefit from it equally? I haven't gone down the Pacific line, yet.

WafflesOfWrath #49 Posted 24 November 2017 - 05:34 AM

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Radiators and polish are garbage.

Radiators only increase boost gain while you are airbraking or generating no thrust. Boost was reworked in 2.0 anyway, making it a short, dramatic increase in thrust that recharges relatively quickly (except for bombers and heavies of course, which get tons of boost). Air combat isn't leisurely and slow, allowing you massive periods of time in which you can sit around and recharge your boost. Due to 2.0's fast-paced nature, even if you manage to sit around in an area without enemies with your engine off, you're not contributing to the fight at all or helping your team. Matches in 2.0 are, on average, 7ish minutes... do you really have time to sit at altitude cutting all your speed? We're not even getting into how vulnerable you are while putzing around with little thrust. Wasn't speed your objective in the first place, anyway?

The only planes that could even think about taking a radiator are the Kostikov and the J8m, and that is because they are aircraft whose entire playstyle revolves around extreme boom n zoom passes where they return to absurdly safe altitudes because of the disparity in speed between themselves and other aircraft at their respective tiers. The two planes mentioned aren't even competitive in the current game where a turnfighter can secure a cap in much less time with much less effort.

You should also never be taking polish on anything. Polish only increases your maximum speed, not your overall thrust. The only time you are EVER traveling at your maximum speed during air combat is in a dive. Due to severely increased altitude compression during the transition from 1.9 to 2.0, the vertical playing space in WoWP is smaller than ever. It takes planes less time to climb/dive than ever before, and different plane types are crammed into a smaller space, which is why we've seen the Boom n Zoom playstyle become very weak in comparison to the Turn n Burn playstyle that offers quicker kills and superior maneuverability. Imagine a fish tank with most of the water drained so that all the fish are clumped together. That's WoWP 2.0. In a Boom n Zoom plane, you want to be extremely careful about diving, as it sacrifices your precious altitude advantage and places you at lower altitudes where you are vulnerable to 2.0's buffed TnB aircraft that can now more easily punish you. Since there's also less vertical space to play in, diving in an attempt to escape a pursuer will end up with you at the deck and your opponent not far behind. Even the most dramatic divers in the game like Lightnings and high tier heavies only buy themselves a bit of time by diving to escape, and then they are at low altitude in mere moments, extremely vulnerable and easily killed. I'm not even getting into compression stalls, where you overspeed in a dive, lose all control of your aircraft and then lawndart into the ground... In review, polish is a poor choice of equipment, you should boost away horizontally in a heavy or at a slight dive at most, then climb to conserve altitude and escape to a safe higher point, not dump it all in a needless dive.

http://blog.worldofw...uipment-part-1/

ARCNA442 #50 Posted 24 November 2017 - 09:08 PM

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View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 24 November 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

Radiators and polish are garbage.

 

You're right about radiators. After playing with one more I realized it didn't do much. I just timed it and my results confirm what is in the link you posted - the 30% faster boost recovery only happens if you are holding "S".

 

However, while Aircraft Polish only improves your top speed, Improved Aircraft Polish (only available to heavies) does indeed improve dive acceleration by 25% (it's in the link that you posted) which is extremely useful since it lets you quickly outrun a boosting light fighter - something you can't do in a horizontal escape.

 

Still, I agree that Boom and Zoom tactics aren't that useful. Unfortunately, you can't do much else in a heavy so you may as well optimize for it.

 

 

View PostSithSteel, on 20 November 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

 

Which American multirole do you think fits best with the radiator? Or do they benefit from it equally? I haven't gone down the Pacific line, yet.

 

I was thinking manly the USAF line since they are less maneuverable. But as you can see above I found that radiators don't really do much and no longer recommend them. At this point I would go with Light Weight Airframe / Gunsight / Control Surface Adjustment to maximize maneuverability and firepower (combined with Aerodynamics Expert the two maneuver mods give you a 10.4% increase in turn speed.


Edited by ARCNA442, 24 November 2017 - 09:12 PM.


pyantoryng #51 Posted 24 November 2017 - 09:21 PM

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There is an additional problem with radiators now: Idling engine with the hotkey also deploy flaps...which is a really stupid idea, especially now that flaps key has been returned. While you can throttle down to idle, throttle percentage is still nowhere to be seen.

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WafflesOfWrath #52 Posted 25 November 2017 - 11:05 AM

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View PostARCNA442, on 24 November 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

You're right about radiators. After playing with one more I realized it didn't do much. I just timed it and my results confirm what is in the link you posted - the 30% faster boost recovery only happens if you are holding "S".

 

However, while Aircraft Polish only improves your top speed, Improved Aircraft Polish (only available to heavies) does indeed improve dive acceleration by 25% (it's in the link that you posted) which is extremely useful since it lets you quickly outrun a boosting light fighter - something you can't do in a horizontal escape.

 

Still, I agree that Boom and Zoom tactics aren't that useful. Unfortunately, you can't do much else in a heavy so you may as well optimize for it.

 

 

 

I was thinking manly the USAF line since they are less maneuverable. But as you can see above I found that radiators don't really do much and no longer recommend them. At this point I would go with Light Weight Airframe / Gunsight / Control Surface Adjustment to maximize maneuverability and firepower (combined with Aerodynamics Expert the two maneuver mods give you a 10.4% increase in turn speed.

 

Did you even read what I posted? Very rarely does diving ever allow you to actually escape. The only heavies in the game that can actually gain separation from a chasing fighter in a dive are lightnings and heavies at tier 9/10. Even IF you manage to escape, you are incredibly vulnerable at low altitude. All you've done is bought yourself a few seconds. It's better to actually be competent at boom n zoom mechanics/energy management and be in a situation where you have enough airspeed to escape in the horizontal. That 3rd equipment slot is MUCH better suited to a gunsight, durability or crit reduction. You should never take polish.

Your aerodynamics expert math is incorrect. It's 4.2%+4.2% for a total of 8.4%. Only with aerodynamics expert AND acrobatics expert do you get 10.4%. You're missing the crucial engine tuning to maximize speed, the most important trait for US fighters, and your gunsight is redundant since all USAF aircraft use machineguns, weapons with a maximum range of around 500 meters. At the ranges you are engaging with 50 cals, you're at point blank range anyway - what would you need accuracy for when your target is filling your reticle?

Edited by WafflesOfWrath, 25 November 2017 - 07:30 PM.


ARCNA442 #53 Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:58 PM

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View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 25 November 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

 

Did you even read what I posted? Very rarely does diving ever allow you to actually escape. The only heavies in the game that can actually gain separation from a chasing fighter in a dive are lightnings and heavies at tier 9/10. Even IF you manage to escape, you are incredibly vulnerable at low altitude. All you've done is bought yourself a few seconds. It's better to actually be competent at boom n zoom mechanics/energy management and be in a situation where you have enough airspeed to escape in the horizontal. That 3rd equipment slot is MUCH better suited to a gunsight, durability or crit reduction. You should never take polish.

Your aerodynamics expert math is incorrect. It's 4.2%+4.2% for a total of 8.4%. Only with aerodynamics expert AND acrobatics expert do you get 10.4%. You're missing the crucial engine tuning to maximize speed, the most important trait for US fighters, and your gunsight is redundant since all USAF aircraft use machineguns, weapons with a maximum range of around 500 meters. At the ranges you are engaging with 50 cals, you're at point blank range anyway - what would you need accuracy for when your target is filling your reticle?

 

As I said in my disclaimer I've only played the US lines to tier 6/7. Thus my only experience with heavy fighters has been the P-38. On the P-38, the extra acceleration from improved polish does let you escape from light fighters. I'm not advocating constantly diving to low altitude, but if a light focuses on you diving can get you out of bad situation quickly.

 

Thank for the math correction, I leaving out acrobatics expert was an oversight. I've been experimenting with both engine tuning and gunsights and feel that the gunsight is more valuable - since machineguns take so long to overheat I generally open fire with them at ~600 meters and the gunsight lets me get a few more hits before my target even officially comes within range.



mnbv_fockewulfe #54 Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:38 PM

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there is past video about aircraft polish and it showed the you receive a definite increase in climb rate, acceleration, and speed. as far as i know things haven't changed.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


ARCNA442 #55 Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:19 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 25 November 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

there is past video about aircraft polish and it showed the you receive a definite increase in climb rate, acceleration, and speed. as far as i know things haven't changed.

 

Do you have the video? Because that contradicts the current description.

WafflesOfWrath #56 Posted 26 November 2017 - 09:31 PM

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That would contradict WG's own equipment devblog. I tested it personally and noticed no increase to thrust whatsoever.

Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #57 Posted 27 November 2017 - 10:45 PM

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I adjusted my BSH-1 crew plus plane to the spreadsheet recommendations and it was a noticeable improvement, which is also the crew I've been using for the IL-2(mod) I got for one of those giveaway codes.

Now, if I could only get a good game in with the Shturmovik..... very mixed about how GAA perform in the 2.0 revamp.

 

Questions:

- Is the Engine Guru 1 pilot perk about the same as having the Engine Tuning (X) equipment mounted on a plane?

- Is the Marksman 1 pilot perk about the same as having any of the Gunsight (X) equipments mounted on a plane?

 

''Sharpshooter'' is listed a few times on the spreadsheet; is this a specialty skill or the old version of the Marksman pilot perk?


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 27 November 2017 - 11:00 PM.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

5801234590.png

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Capture Points & You --- Graphic Settings Explored --- Grinding Tokens; Not so Daily Missions --- Ground Targets & Mission Types in 2.0 --- Equipment 2.0.5; Huh?


WafflesOfWrath #58 Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:36 AM

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View PostSoylent_Red_Isnt_People, on 27 November 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

I adjusted my BSH-1 crew plus plane to the spreadsheet recommendations and it was a noticeable improvement, which is also the crew I've been using for the IL-2(mod) I got for one of those giveaway codes.

Now, if I could only get a good game in with the Shturmovik..... very mixed about how GAA perform in the 2.0 revamp.

 

Questions:

- Is the Engine Guru 1 pilot perk about the same as having the Engine Tuning (X) equipment mounted on a plane?

- Is the Marksman 1 pilot perk about the same as having any of the Gunsight (X) equipments mounted on a plane?

 

''Sharpshooter'' is listed a few times on the spreadsheet; is this a specialty skill or the old version of the Marksman pilot perk?


Engine guru 1 increases thrust by 3%, engine tuning increases thrust by 5%.
Marksman increases accuracy by 5%, gunsights can improve accuracy by 10% or 15%, depending on what's available to the plane.

That was a typo, it's supposed to be "Marksman".
 

Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #59 Posted 01 December 2017 - 08:23 AM

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okay, check - Just a slight difference in percentages without any special hidden capabilities.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

5801234590.png

''Under control? You're grabbing a f**king bazooka, you dumba**!''

 

Capture Points & You --- Graphic Settings Explored --- Grinding Tokens; Not so Daily Missions --- Ground Targets & Mission Types in 2.0 --- Equipment 2.0.5; Huh?


comtedumas #60 Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:09 AM

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View Postsimplepleasures, on 14 November 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

This is a quick reference guide for equipment and pilot skills.    

Should be handy for newcomers and vets alike.

Post your thoughts/suggestions.

THIS IS AN EVOLVING WORK IN PROGRESS
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ONCE AGAIN THIS IS STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS

https://docs.google....t#gid=601624856

 

are you going to update this for bombers soon?

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