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Fw190 - The little engine that... can't!


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SnickerDoodle99 #1 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:35 AM

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What am I missing here? It seems every time I take out the FW190 at least once per battle I get into an unrecoverable stall that drives me straight into the ground. A couple times now the engine has kicked back in and I've been able to recover but what is with this plane? It stalls A LOT.

TokyoExpress #2 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:38 AM

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Yep, you're late to the party. This issue has been around since CBT, and still no fix yet. Maybe it's WAI.

SnickerDoodle99 #3 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:40 AM

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So it is a thing, okay, thanks :)

mnbv_fockewulfe #4 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:51 AM

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Historically, the 190 had harsh stall characteristics. In the game they kind over did it a bit.

 


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SnickerDoodle99 #5 Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:56 AM

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Would having the perks Engine Guru have any appreciable effect on this or no?

Killerpopcorn #6 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:02 AM

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View PostSnickerDoodle99, on 13 November 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

Would having the perks Engine Guru have any appreciable effect on this or no?

 

Not enough to make a noticeable difference, before 2.0 if you took that plane below 2-2.5k you were screwed. The plane is meant to stay up high and support the furball of fighters hunting other BnZ planes. Basically its a lesser BnZ plane then the 410 with almost, but lesser firepower. Now I haven't really flown this thing as much in 2.0 but the few battles I did I felt useless(like a brick) in dog fighting anything.

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SnickerDoodle99 #7 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:38 AM

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It's definately a brick.. It cant be easy dropping bombs from way up high... I never seem to be high enough though to dogfight well.

Pogo68 #8 Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:18 AM

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The real Fw-190 had such an awful low speed stall behavior that even the pilots who flew against them noticed it without having to read the intel files.

 

One Spitfire pilot was on the tail of a 190 when it went into a high g right turn and the 190 promptly rolled in the opposite direction, stalled and hit the ground.

They were both doing better than 300kph at the time.

 

In this game, the compressed altitudes really hurt it and limit your options.


Edited by Pogo68, 14 November 2017 - 04:36 AM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

mnbv_fockewulfe #9 Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:33 AM

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Good thing the game doesn't model angle of attack x speed affect on stall.

View PostKillerpopcorn, on 14 November 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

 

Not enough to make a noticeable difference, before 2.0 if you took that plane below 2-2.5k you were screwed. The plane is meant to stay up high and support the furball of fighters hunting other BnZ planes. Basically its a lesser BnZ plane then the 410 with almost, but lesser firepower. Now I haven't really flown this thing as much in 2.0 but the few battles I did I felt useless(like a brick) in dog fighting anything.

 

It's been awhile since you played.

In 1.7-1.8, the Fw 190 A-5 was pretty dog for its tier, the only BnZ plane that had it harder was the F4U. The 190 was a total beast against T5 planes, but in it's own tier and above you had very little options open to you. Everything was faster than you above 2,500m except the F4U. At sea level, you actually had a bit of an advantage having a radial engine, but planes like the P-38, Pancake, and this time the F4U could overtake you at low alt. Everything except the Me 410 could turn tighter than you. 

The only fighter with more health was the F4U, but the 190 had the best firepower except for the Me 410. One of the only ways to beat a P-38 was to go in a headon with it and take it out on the first pass (crits were pretty rare in 1.7).

The 190 actually had the, I think, third best climb rate, but because of its heavy weight and lower service ceiling this didn't translate well into actual climbing ability.

The rollrate was the best for a prop plane in the game, challenge only by the I-16 and other Fw. This meant your best defensive maneuver was the barrel roll and the flat scissors. The latter being one of the hardest maneuvers to execute properly and survive. The 190 was a team plane and most of my battles with her was in the era of 3v3s. 

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HazeGrayUnderway #10 Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:46 AM

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Fw190 stalling was a real thing as others pointed out.  In a late 1990s sim I used to play a lot of, European Air War, it was a definite danger.  I'm slowing my 190 to get that extra few more seconds to finish off a slow flying, turning Spitfire, then WHOOPS!  The plane rolls over and control is lost!

 

RAF pilot Eric Brown test flew a Fw190:

"The stalling speed of the Fw 190A-4 in clean configuration was 127 mph (204 km/h) and the stall came suddenly and virtually without warning, the port wing dropping so violently that the aircraft almost inverted itself. In fact, if the German fighter was pulled into a g stall in a right turn, it would flick out into the opposite bank and an incipient spin was the inevitable outcome if the pilot did not have its wits about him."


Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 14 November 2017 - 05:20 AM.


Mercsn #11 Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:38 AM

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Interesting. I've played around a bit with the FW-190 A-5 and haven't noticed this.  The only stalls I get are the ones from the altitude band cap.  Unlike what someone else posted, it's a mid altitude plane.  So, trying to get up to shoot someone flying high will result in the altitude cap stall behavior.  I haven't noticed any stall or weird issues when turning or dropping flaps and slowing way down to shoot a lone GA, either of which should cause the issue that people are describing here.

 


 

Perhaps you had your engine shot out or lost it in a collision at the same time you were already slowed down (from maneuvering or high altitude stall)?  Just brainstorm guessing.  What you describe sounds most similar to when I've had the engine shot out on a plane while already near the ground at already at slow speed (while turn fighting in a Russian craft).  But, I think I've not had the engine shot out of the FW-190 A-5, so I don't have experience with how it behaves in such a situation.


 

Other than the fact that it's a beautiful aircraft, I don't particularly like it because it can't climb high enough to use it's speed to catch higher flying BnZ craft.  And in the current meta of turn fighting, I feel I'm not contributing while I'm opening up distance to make a U-turn.  I'll keep an eye out for weird things from this plane/line though.


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Unraveler #12 Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:24 AM

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I recently got the Fw 190A-1 and have already suffered a fatal stall. I was tailing a Ground Attack plane, under full brakes, and in the process of unleashing her formidable firepower. Without warning, my graceful ballerina turns into a crazed circus clown, flipping over and dropping like a stone onto the landscape. Well, I suppose the BIG RED NUMBERS of my speed indicator were actually a warning of my impending doom. Technically.

 

At the time it was a complete surprise because I've never had a fighter behave like that before (I'm only up to the middle tiers) but now I'll be paying a bit more attention to my airspeed. Probably. Maybe. In any case, I actually like that the game models the stall speed - it should be dangerous to go too slow in a high-speed interceptor.



gerr22 #13 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:02 PM

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the A-1 and A-5 are still recoverable but that 190  man even if you are ready for it is still a suprise the other one to watch TA 152 but to a lesser extent and does recover quicker

pyantoryng #14 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:35 PM

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View Postgerr22, on 14 November 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

the A-1 and A-5 are still recoverable but that 190  man even if you are ready for it is still a suprise the other one to watch TA 152 but to a lesser extent and does recover quicker

 

You mean Fw 190D?

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StoptheViolins #15 Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

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You definitely need to keep your e up in the 190.  Start to slow and turn fighters will get you.  Unfortunately e is hard to keep and aside from eating up heavy fighters the thing does nothing well.

HazeGrayUnderway #16 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

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I think it's just surprising that the Germans let the Fw190 get into service with that obvious a safety issue.  It's something that can get pilots easily killed even without enemy action, and having enough pilots is something the Luftwaffe struggled with.

 

In European Air War, since you were in a cockpit view, the sudden loss of control is scary as f--k.  You're doing a low speed turn in one direction then suddenly the plane literally just immediately rolls to one side and you're going down.  If your altitude was low, you were absolutely screwed.

 

Loved that game, BTW.  I recall one of my German Bf109 campaigns ended early on during the Battle of Britain.  My squadron was doing a fighter sweep of the Southeastern UK.  Things were going fine with an engagement against some Spitfires, downed one but another damaged my plane.  The engagement finished and it was time to fly back to France but then my smoking engine starts billowing more smoke, oil pressure starts going to s--t, oil splatters on the windscreen.  I see an airfield not too far away and hilariously, the AA eases off.  So I basically calmly landed my heavily damaged 109 into some RAF airfield.  I taxied, shut the engines down, opened the canopy, and the war was over for me.  I was a POW :trollface:



Zergling #17 Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:55 PM

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The Fw 190 A-5 is an alright plane, but the A-1 struggles. Adding in the stall issue... it is probably one of the worst Tier 5s, up there with the Yak-7.

Edited by Zergling, 14 November 2017 - 07:55 PM.


pyantoryng #18 Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:57 PM

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The A-5 seem to be able to recover from its stall...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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