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Ground Attack in 2.0


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SgtPauli #1 Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:32 PM

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Is it just me, or playing ground attack aircraft worthless?  The meta seems to support fighters (no worries there, I do just fine in those), while the life span of a ground attack aircraft is breathtakingly short.

 

Thoughts?  Comments?



SnickerDoodle99 #2 Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:40 PM

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It's situational. In my Stuka I've been able to flip caps on my own if unbothered, but if there's a lot of enemies over you they can take you out pretty easy.

Catch21 #3 Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:51 PM

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I'm finding it's a fairly thankless task. I got an IL-2 (Modified) Tier V Premium as a sign-up bonus, so after some reading, kitted it out with Equipment as follows:

 

1) Loaded with all ordnance available, there's not much of a performance hit for going out 'heavy'.

2) Equipment: Concealed Livery II, Reinforced Airframe II, Additional Armor Plates II, all in really to keep the comrades as safe and sound as possible. There's Improved Covering II also as an option, but only 3 slots so above is what I chose of the 4. 

 

I figure protection trumps precision mission aids like sights, stabilizers, tuned engines, flaps given how low, slow, in close to targets you are. And given %age improvements of some equipment, I'm just playing the higher #s and would argue it out with those who think differently.

 

For Crew Skills, aside from a natural ability to stunt fly and weave through an aerial obstacle course in a flying bathtub, I picked (to date):

 

1) Pilot: Protection Expert, which gives a 40% boost to the equipment.

2) Rear Gunner: Quick Reflexes which I'll move to Defensive Fire as soon as possible.

 

Consumables: Fire Extinguisher, First Aid, and I'm going to try Weapons Ventilation instead of Restarter/Trim as I haven't found much of a need for either of these latter 2 on this.

 

Some Advice:

 

1) Stay (tree/rooftop) low and level as best you can- you could be soaking up a lot of resource that the enemy could use elsewhere

2) Don't go out alone if you can help it

3) Grit your teeth- remember there's a Hero of the Soviet Union medal waiting for you

4) When pursued I sometimes put plane on 'Level Off' (depending on terrain, see here on this) and take over the Rear Gunner position, now that really is a fun way to travel, makes it all worthwhile (sometimes)

5) A bomb at a judicious moment can ruin someone's day in the air behind you

 

That's just my 0.02 and what I've done, it surely will develop over time and others will hopefully chime in with their thoughts. If you can get a handle on it, I've found the IL-2 Premium, given I got it for free, is a nice little silver making machine.

 

There's a thread/video here and other hints/tips/advice if you look for it on forums/youtube++.

 

Good luck! 



CamoCladWarrior #4 Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:38 PM

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IDK, I find the air to air battles more painful because the situational awareness sucks.  I had to revert back to a mouse from a joystick just to play the damned thing.  At least with GA you know fairly quick when someone is on you and since you cannot out turn them anyway you just push through.  using the tail gunner with a joystick is also painful, mouse is much easier.

 

I would like to see split mouse/joystick option for pilot and tail gunner...

 

Then again, as much as I play now it doesn't really matter it is all painful to play...

 


Edited by CamoCladWarrior, 12 November 2017 - 05:39 PM.


HazeGrayUnderway #5 Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:19 PM

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View PostCatch21, on 12 November 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

5) A bomb at a judicious moment can ruin someone's day in the air behind you

 

 

I remember getting caught by this in the first day or two of me starting.  This is especially dangerous when you fly up to a slow moving GA, throttle back so you can pound away at short range behind them.  Then all the sudden BOOM!  I'm dead.  They drop a bomb and it destroys me.  I no longer park behind GAs, I'll make passes.  I now use the same trick myself when flying my own GAs and get guys on occasion for Bombardier badges.

 

I was so happy when I finally joined the club in killing other planes in non-conventional means.


Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 12 November 2017 - 06:22 PM.


LMG #6 Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:28 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 12 November 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

I remember getting caught by this in the first day or two of me starting.  This is especially dangerous when you fly up to a slow moving GA, throttle back so you can pound away at short range behind them.  Then all the sudden BOOM!  I'm dead.  They drop a bomb and it destroys me.  I no longer park behind GAs, I'll make passes.  I now use the same trick myself when flying my own GAs and get guys on occasion for Bombardier badges.

 

I was so happy when I finally joined the club in killing other planes in non-conventional means.

 

Back in the day, bombkilling was the only way a GAA could survive. GAAs never really used bombs on ground targets because of it. Most of my plane kill marks on my IL-2 (t) are from bombkilling before 2.0. Now that bombs recharge and we respawn, bombs can be used against ground targets freely. That doesn't mean my days of bombkilling are over; in fact, the other day I got a double bombkill :medal:

Edited by LMG, 12 November 2017 - 06:30 PM.


Destroyer_Suzukaze #7 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:31 PM

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I think GA is fine. Very strong at contesting caps. You only get cap points if you take out the whole target, so you need to go low and slow and learn to pick your shots and walk them through a target and where to place bombs. Once you focus on ground targets as a whole your influence on the outcome goes up

LMG #8 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:45 PM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 12 November 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

I think GA is fine. Very strong at contesting caps. You only get cap points if you take out the whole target, so you need to go low and slow and learn to pick your shots and walk them through a target and where to place bombs. Once you focus on ground targets as a whole your influence on the outcome goes up

 

Until a fighter decides to park their plane on the side of a bunker and reset your cap points while at it. I've learned that ally planes are a bigger threat to a GAA's performance than hostile ones more often than not :amazed:. It makes me wonder whether or not plane kills are a bit too influencial in capturing points, or if ground targets are simply not important enough :sceptic:. Not to say it shouldn't matter, but it does make me worry when I can't capture a point after 5-6 minutes of constant mayhem because of allies constantly getting shot down around me


Edited by LMG, 12 November 2017 - 07:45 PM.


pyantoryng #9 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:51 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 12 November 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

 

[...]non-conventional means.

 

 

There are a few planes which are no stranger to rocket kills at all...one such group were even purpose-made for it.

 

Anyway...attack aircrafts can have far-reaching consequences in some cases. Having some bumbly GA crashing in a mining plant while the enemy is well on the way to capture it won't help any, for example. It is the GA that are actually at a great risk of getting instantly killed by ground or even buildings, and they do so to the detriment of the team fighting above them.

 

So, GAs do matter.



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HazeGrayUnderway #10 Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:17 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 12 November 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

 

There are a few planes which are no stranger to rocket kills at all...one such group were even purpose-made for it.

 

Anyway...attack aircrafts can have far-reaching consequences in some cases. Having some bumbly GA crashing in a mining plant while the enemy is well on the way to capture it won't help any, for example. It is the GA that are actually at a great risk of getting instantly killed by ground or even buildings, and they do so to the detriment of the team fighting above them.

 

So, GAs do matter.

 

I *JUST* unlocked the R4M rockets on my Me262 :trollface:  Back in the day, I played heavily European Air War.  I got familiar with Luftwaffe bomber intercept missions fitting R4M on their interceptors.  The 262 featured quite a lot, so being in charge of a full squadron of 262s on an intercept and all launching those rockets was a thing.  The problem was getting the squadron to attack position intact, in formation, to do the mass attack run and rocket launches, cannon strafes.  When the Luftwaffe would only send 1-2 squadrons up against swarms of American fighter escorts, it gets problematic, requiring patience, and lots of staring at the fuel gauge.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 12 November 2017 - 08:18 PM.


armydoc83 #11 Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:59 PM

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I'm actually wondering how much rage is going to be generated when bomber lines become a thing and carpet bombing starts to catch GA up in friendly fire. Honestly my biggest issue with my IL-20 right now is that my cannons don't do enough work on ground targets (haven't unlocked top guns yet) and ordnance doesn't recharge fast enough to cap the point in any time of time compared to just shooting down planes.

 

The whole deal with GA used to be they were the guys that would go around trying to avoid the main fight in order to heavily push up their team's score so that if the air fight went badly hopefully the ground fight would offset that loss and still get a win. Now the GA are being forced straight into the furball and honestly it just seems better to have something that can fly at super high altitudes and spam loads of bombs.


Edited by armydoc83, 13 November 2017 - 11:00 PM.


HazeGrayUnderway #12 Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:53 PM

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View Postarmydoc83, on 13 November 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

I'm actually wondering how much rage is going to be generated when bomber lines become a thing and carpet bombing starts to catch GA up in friendly fire. Honestly my biggest issue with my IL-20 right now is that my cannons don't do enough work on ground targets (haven't unlocked top guns yet) and ordnance doesn't recharge fast enough to cap the point in any time of time compared to just shooting down planes.

 

The whole deal with GA used to be they were the guys that would go around trying to avoid the main fight in order to heavily push up their team's score so that if the air fight went badly hopefully the ground fight would offset that loss and still get a win. Now the GA are being forced straight into the furball and honestly it just seems better to have something that can fly at super high altitudes and spam loads of bombs.

 

Bombers like A-26 and RB-17 aren't exactly safe.  The moment a high altitude performance plane shows up like a German Heavy Fighter, it can get hairy up there for them as they are now suddenly vulnerable.  Even the Tier IV Bf-110 can rip apart the lowest tier bombers.  Ideally, as what happened IRL, there'd be high flying escorts also, but there's no incentive for people to babysit a bomber when they need a lot of XPs themselves.

vonluckner #13 Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:58 PM

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They're effective, especially at higher tiers. There isn't really a true counter other than just out-GA-ing the other team or just overwhelming them. They are sort of made necessary by the existence of mining complexes- and if you're in a 1v1 or 2v2 on a map with a mining complex it will almost always go to the team with the player GA, unless bots throw the match by suiciding over the cap.

 

HFs can't really go slow enough (or slow down fast enough) to hose them down quickly (though they're better at fighting them than other aircraft), and LFs and MRs get shredded by their tail gun.

 

AFAIK the only caps that can be taken 100% solo by AI kills are airfields. Military districts and command centers (and I'm pretty sure Garrisons too) both need some ground kills to turn the cap if no enemies are present to be shot down.

 



LMG #14 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:17 AM

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View Postvonluckner, on 13 November 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

AFAIK the only caps that can be taken 100% solo by AI kills are airfields. Military districts and command centers (and I'm pretty sure Garrisons too) both need some ground kills to turn the cap if no enemies are present to be shot down.

 

Most areas can be capped with 3-4 plane kills, so as long as there's that amount flying around then it's capable without hitting ground targets. I know for sure Airfields/Airbases and Garrisons have more than that, and I think Command Centers have just enough? I believe Military Bases run short and Mining Facilities do not spawn any



vonluckner #15 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:37 AM

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View PostLMG, on 14 November 2017 - 12:17 AM, said:

 

Most areas can be capped with 3-4 plane kills, so as long as there's that amount flying around then it's capable without hitting ground targets. I know for sure Airfields/Airbases and Garrisons have more than that, and I think Command Centers have just enough? I believe Military Bases run short and Mining Facilities do not spawn any

 

I think that's while neutral only. Mining, Command and Military all have 140 points while neutral and 180 while controlled. Each defense aircraft is worth 40. This is based on the info in the 2.0 and 2.0.1 patch notes.

 

This means you absolutely need a ground kill if you're attacking an enemy-controlled point.

 

What it means for GA is that you should ration your ordnance if you get a map with a command or military district next to your spawn. I think it makes the most sense to use either your bombs or rockets (not both) to take the biggest armored ground camp you can manage if Soviet, or guns to take 2 AA camps if German. It's much better to save your firepower for an enemy-controlled point since you really want to just ensure these points are taken, rather than bypass them only for your bots to fail to take them.

 

Block Quote

  • Garrison: 90 capture points to capture a neutral sector, 120 capture points to capture an enemy sector.
  • Staging Airfield: 90 capture points to capture a neutral sector, 120 capture points to capture an enemy sector.
  • Mining Plant: 140 capture points to capture a neutral sector, 180 capture points to capture an enemy sector.
  • Airbase: 140 capture points to capture a neutral sector, 180 capture points to capture an enemy sector.
  • Military Base: 140 capture points to capture a neutral sector, 180 capture points to capture an enemy sector.
  • Command Center: 140 capture points to capture a neutral sector, 180 capture points to capture an enemy sector.

 

 

Block Quote

  • Small ground objects = 15-20 pts.
  • Medium ground objects = 20-50 pts.
  • Large ground objects: 50-80 pts.
  • Air defense aircraft: 40 pts.
  • Enemy aircraft: 60 pts. (only counts aircraft destroyed over the targeted territory)
  • Enemy aircraft while defending: 40 pts (only counts aircraft destroyed over the defended territory)

 

 


Edited by vonluckner, 14 November 2017 - 12:39 AM.


Destroyer_Suzukaze #16 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:47 AM

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View Postvonluckner, on 13 November 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

 

I think that's while neutral only. Mining, Command and Military all have 140 points while neutral and 180 while controlled. Each defense aircraft is worth 40. This is based on the info in the 2.0 and 2.0.1 patch notes.

 

This means you absolutely need a ground kill if you're attacking an enemy-controlled point.

 

What it means for GA is that you should ration your ordnance if you get a map with a command or military district next to your spawn. I think it makes the most sense to use either your bombs or rockets (not both) to take the biggest armored ground camp you can manage if Soviet, or guns to take 2 AA camps if German. It's much better to save your firepower for an enemy-controlled point since you really want to just ensure these points are taken, rather than bypass them only for your bots to fail to take them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In an IL2, if I burn through my ordnance at point A, by the time I wallow to point B it's back

vonluckner #17 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:51 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 14 November 2017 - 12:47 AM, said:

 

In an IL2, if I burn through my ordnance at point A, by the time I wallow to point B it's back

 

Yeah, it'll change depending upon what you're playing and how fast it is. In the Il-20 I'll still be on cooldown by the time I get to the next cap.

Destroyer_Suzukaze #18 Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:59 AM

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View Postvonluckner, on 13 November 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

 

Yeah, it'll change depending upon what you're playing and how fast it is. In the Il-20 I'll still be on cooldown by the time I get to the next cap.

 

Yup. When taking advice you need to consider it in context with your planes capabilities. My IL2 does not have the 37mm yet, and the 23mm don't burn well through T7 armored targets, which is why god gave me ordnance :)

 

And I am slow as all get out

 



HazeGrayUnderway #19 Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:55 AM

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Ground Attack are one of the plane types that you can get Bombardier and Rocketeer in the same game :trollface:

LMG #20 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:38 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Suzukaze, on 13 November 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

Yup. When taking advice you need to consider it in context with your planes capabilities. My IL2 does not have the 37mm yet, and the 23mm don't burn well through T7 armored targets, which is why god gave me ordnance :)

 

And I am slow as all get out

 

 

Sadly 37mm cannons still take a while to take down a single armored target. It can be between 4-5 shots if you don't miss. The German 50mm cannon takes about the same number of shots oddly enough, though it's a bit more consistent




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