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Tier 6 BF-109, or rather the german fighter line in general.


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Drifter_X #1 Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:09 AM

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Hello everyone, I'm having trouble nailing down what this fighter is good at. For some reason tier 6 in all tech trees takes a nose dive in armament, while other performance continues to increase. The real question is the BF-109 even a competent fighter? I guess the engine is good or whatever, but I'm not sure. It has a nice high altitude but low altitude is where the action is anyway.

Dru83 #2 Posted 12 November 2017 - 04:30 AM

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Both German fighter lines focus on speed. They are boom and zoom lines. Climb high and search for victims. Pick on the loners, the unwary, and the weak. Dive on your target with every ounce of speed you have. Hit 'em hard. Accuracy is key. Then, dive away, pick up speed, and climb to safety. Then, turn in a wide, climbing turn and do it all over again, and again, and again. You don't want to be where the action is, you want to get in and get back out to live to fight another day.



StoptheViolins #3 Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:11 AM

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BF 109 turner, climber.  FW 190 BnZ roll and energy plane.  Oddly the paper denotes T5 stats on both are very close.  In practice the 109 is good vs multis and fighters.  The 190 is good vs heavies, ga, and bombers.  

CamuMahubah #4 Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:14 AM

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I'm wanting to go down that line but I'm finding that turn and burns=meta=life.

pyantoryng #5 Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:55 AM

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In the firepower-focused environment of 2.0, having a pair of machine guns and one cannon won't cut it anymore by tier 7. The F can hold its own in tier 6 (some other planes like Yak-1M has similar armaments), but it's the G that starts to have problems.

 

Bf 109 F and G used to have gunpods with cannons...they could use those now that stuff no longer weigh planes down.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Einssniper #6 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:59 AM

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To me the tier V is better than tier 6 and 7--the speed of me109 is not what it

scares enemy, nor the turn rate, it's the firepower; in old times Bf-109G used to

have what pyantoryng said the gun pods cannon armament, and that feature is

continued in tier 9 and 10, in which you have 4 revolver cannon that no light fighter

will dare to head on. This line does not have the best engines in game, contrary to

what you believe, the Rolls-Royce Merlin engines outmatch the counterparts on bf-109G

and me-209a, and Jumo-004E and HeS011 is just too weak for a jet, compared to 

American J34/J35, Rolls Royce Nene, Tay, and AVON; however the thrust does not

have a direct correlation with speed performance. At high altitude this line does have

very good speed retention and is capable of doing high G maneuver, but remember you

can't out-turn anything in low altitude. Its strong firepower (when you are at tier V or upper tiers)

enables it to counter enemy bomber and heavy with relative ease, still not recommended for

hunting GAAs due to your vulnerability.



Mercsn #7 Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:13 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 12 November 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

In the firepower-focused environment of 2.0, having a pair of machine guns and one cannon won't cut it anymore by tier 7. The F can hold its own in tier 6 (some other planes like Yak-1M has similar armaments), but it's the G that starts to have problems.

 

Bf 109 F and G used to have gunpods with cannons...they could use those now that stuff no longer weigh planes down.

 

The Yak-3RD with exactly one 23mm nose cannon and no other guns, is a BLAST at tier 7!  Although, I can hear Obi-wan every time I engage a target:  "Use bursts, Luke...use bursts"  Cannon overheat is no friend!

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Mercsn #8 Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:18 AM

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The BF109F used to be the BEST of the line, ummm...3.5 years ago when I played last.  So, it's kinda sad to hear it's not what it once was.  It had the best combination of speed and climb, maneuvering, and enough firepower to hurt. But, as Camu points out, turn fighting is where conquest is at.  The 109's have to open up distance after a gun pass on more maneuverable targets, either up, or away and then return for another pass.  By the time that 2nd or 3rd pass happens, the furball in the zone may already be won or lost.

 


 

Once again, WG swing from one extreme to the other, where previously the meta was energy fighting, now it's turn fighting. I have no advice to offer other than, I'd hope for balances passes both the conquest and aircraft trees to account for all types of aircraft being relevant.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

pyantoryng #9 Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:20 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 12 November 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

 

The Yak-3RD with exactly one 23mm nose cannon and no other guns, is a BLAST at tier 7!  Although, I can hear Obi-wan every time I engage a target:  "Use bursts, Luke...use bursts"  Cannon overheat is no friend!

 

That single gun is the NR-23, equivalent to the USSR tier 10 firepower, and the Yak-3RD shows that one of those is more than enough to snap tier 7 in half. It's accurate, deal good damage on per-shot basis, and rarely overheat with just a little trigger discipline. Definitely a recommendation if one likes turnfighting and have the money to spare (I got mine during one of those Marathon missions). The Yak-15 packing two of those NR-23 guns are very good at its tier as well, and you can obtain it via IL-40 to use them right from stock, too (of course, vice-versa also applicable).

 

The Bf 109G only get the crappy hub MK 108 and a supplemental pair of 13.2mm machineguns. Imagine what they can do with extra MK 108s in gondolas...


Edited by pyantoryng, 12 November 2017 - 09:20 AM.


WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

The_World_Needs_A_Hero #10 Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:58 PM

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Tier 6 has always been considered the garbage heap tier. 

Einssniper #11 Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:36 PM

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View PostThe_World_Needs_A_Hero, on 12 November 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Tier 6 has always been considered the garbage heap tier. 

 

Consider the garbage p51a and I210, bf109F only loses to La-5 FN

thehelmsman #12 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

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View PostEinssniper, on 12 November 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

 

Consider the garbage p51a and I210, bf109F only loses to La-5 FN

 

Yeaaaaah. I just got I-210 and I won't be keeping it once I'm done with it. Didn't keep P-51A, either. 109F is at least workable.

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Zergling #13 Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:14 AM

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TBH, the 109F should probably get a pair of 15mm gunpods, and the 109G should probably get a pair of 20mm gunpods.

 

Nerf the damage of the gunpods if the firepower is too much.



pyantoryng #14 Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:52 PM

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View PostZergling, on 13 November 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

TBH, the 109F should probably get a pair of 15mm gunpods, and the 109G should probably get a pair of 20mm gunpods.

 

Nerf the damage of the gunpods if the firepower is too much.

 

The 109F used to have MG 151/20 pods, and the G can carry two WGr-210 rockets, the same 20mm gunpods as the F, and the MK 108 30mm gunpods (shared with the Bf 109Z).

 

Apparently, outboard equipment are the privilege of multirole fighters and they refuse to reintroduced it for all the time that they were removed...hell, Russian Bias with LaGG-3's 37mm and the ShKAS configs being reintroduced.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

StoptheViolins #15 Posted 17 November 2017 - 05:51 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 13 November 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

The 109F used to have MG 151/20 pods, and the G can carry two WGr-210 rockets, the same 20mm gunpods as the F, and the MK 108 30mm gunpods (shared with the Bf 109Z).

 

Apparently, outboard equipment are the privilege of multirole fighters and they refuse to reintroduced it for all the time that they were removed...hell, Russian Bias with LaGG-3's 37mm and the ShKAS configs being reintroduced.

 

The current meta ignores the planes historical progression.  The 109 went from invader to bomber hunter which oddly WG reflects in the maneuverability department but not in the weapon options department.  As 109 line historically progressed it got heavier due to the addition of more armor to survive the defensive fire of bombers and offensive fire of fighters.

 

The same with quite a few planes in the German arsenal.  Of course, the 265 was historically comparable performance wise to the 410 and only lost out to it due to how easily the 410 could go into production.






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