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A6M5 Zero


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Anubis_TD #1 Posted 01 November 2017 - 04:52 PM

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My screenshot is not working no idea why works in every other game, but you will have to trust me and bare with my poor attempt at upgrade tree.

Anyways:

The A6M5 guns and placement are wrong. Sorry I know it's Wargaming but please.

First no M5 ever had type 99 Mark 1 (short barrel). All had  Mark 2's long barrel (either drum fed mod 3 or belt fed mod 4 ). not sure why they call it Mod 1 (never was a model 1)

Using these historical load outs would make more sense and help struggling line. Belt fed upgrade would overheat much slower than the drum

 

M5's mostly used the Sakae 21 engine (843 kW power), the C variant was thought to get the Sakae 31, a injected one what boosted up to 902 kW

 

Also, upgrading the cowling 7.7's to 13's makes 13's appear on the wings and cowling guns to stop working.

This is fine historically, as this matches the A6M8 set up which required the removal of all cowling guns to get the big Kinsei engine in it (1163 kW power).

However, it is a confusing upgrade and the nose model doesn't change to reflect gun removal and larger cowling needed for the Kinsei engine (see the Ki-61 where they do it when it upgrades to 61 II).

 

Personally, I would like to see a change

removing the M5 ko changing it to M5 Hei ( C);

From the C you can upgrade

adding 1 x 13 in place of the 2x 7.7's in the cowling 

Sakae 31 engine

the ability to add the wing mounted 13's 

Finally, a 3 body (off the wing mount upgrade) the A6M8 (it comes with Kensei and wing mounts but you lose cowling guns). 

 

This upgrade trades fire power for raw engine power.  This is similar idea to ships in WoWS where u pick AA or gun boat for a DD

 

So the upgrade tree is this

Starts

Engine                Synchronized Guns          Airframe            Wing mounts             Wing Mounts

Sakae 21              2 x  7.7's                           A6M5              2 x 20's Mark 3                  X

                                                                                              2 x 20's Mark 4                  X

Sakae 31  <           1 x 13                    <-----  A6M5 hei  ----------------------------------->  2 x 13's

                                     X                              A6M8        <--------------------------------------I

     

 

Very rough hope that makes sense, this would add 2 upgrades but make a bit more historical sense and give a bit more balance and choice.

 

Now the M2 suffers too. they should really consider the first body upgrade be changed to the M3,

Change cannon upgrade to Type 99 Mark 2 Mod 3

Remove Sakae 31 engine (as it totally doesn't belong)

this would give a bit more love to a bad line.

 

These changes also allow a better flow from one plane to the next.

 

now I understand this will never happen or get fixed but it bugs me. :D


Edited by Anubis_TD, 01 November 2017 - 04:55 PM.


Pogo68 #2 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:05 PM

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They should also change the altitude bands as well as the climb rates for the entire A6M line

If you compare them to the P-40, F4F-4, the entire A6M line is under performing.

The Zero's as a line could beat the P-40 and F4F in a climb from 0m 3,000m.

Their max altitude were on par with the F4F-4.

 

The service ceiling of the A6M3 and A6M5 were actually higher than a P-51D Mustang unless the Mustang pilot chose to firewall his engine and then for about 5 minutes it could stay above an A6M3, unfortunately the A6M5 would still be sitting about 400m above him


Edited by Pogo68, 01 November 2017 - 06:24 PM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Anubis_TD #3 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:33 PM

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with better dive speed as well, Hellcat changed all that

Pogo68 #4 Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:31 PM

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View PostAnubis_TD, on 01 November 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

with better dive speed as well, Hellcat changed all that

 

The A6M5 actually had a slightly higher service ceiling.

The Planes of Fame has an A6M5 and it's rated for 38,000ft, about 1,000ft higher than the Hellcat

And at that altitude, the A6M5 still had a better turn rate and maneuvering than the Hellcat.

 

Mostly because at that altitude the air was so thin that the speed penalties that the Zero had at low altitude were lifted.

The problem that altitude was really poor acceleration.

So once it lost speed, it was difficult to regain it.

 


Edited by Pogo68, 01 November 2017 - 06:37 PM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Anubis_TD #5 Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:41 PM

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true, but the hellcat came out in counter to the M2/3, which is what the F4F faces in this game and what my comment was on in regards to your statement

No point comparing the M5 to F4F and company when M2 already outclassed them.

 

And yes A6M is very much underperforming. 

 

 



ramp4ge #6 Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:51 PM

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View PostPogo68, on 01 November 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

 

The Planes of Fame has an A6M5

 

 

And it's gorgeous.

 

 

Planes of Fame is like a religious experience. 



Heibges #7 Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:51 PM

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View PostPogo68, on 01 November 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

They should also change the altitude bands as well as the climb rates for the entire A6M line

If you compare them to the P-40, F4F-4, the entire A6M line is under performing.

The Zero's as a line could beat the P-40 and F4F in a climb from 0m 3,000m.

Their max altitude were on par with the F4F-4.

 

The service ceiling of the A6M3 and A6M5 were actually higher than a P-51D Mustang unless the Mustang pilot chose to firewall his engine and then for about 5 minutes it could stay above an A6M3, unfortunately the A6M5 would still be sitting about 400m above him

 

The Altitude Bands were put in place due to gameplay issues, and had nothing to due with any huge problems with the flight model. The same thing with the Arcade Boost they added at the same time.

 

The base problem was with the Game Mode, and they tried to correct it with changes to the flight model.

 


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Anubis_TD #8 Posted 01 November 2017 - 08:43 PM

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the equivalent Spit 1/2  were no match for the M2, and in this game , well.

 

they reduced the speed too much and its alt penalty is too high..

 

plus, why the hell does the 109 E have a hub cannon. this thing has more technical burst fire power then the G series.  anyways another topic.



Pogo68 #9 Posted 01 November 2017 - 08:45 PM

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View Postramp4ge, on 01 November 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

 

And it's gorgeous.

 

 

Planes of Fame is like a religious experience. 

 

​Yep.

I think they're going to fly her again this December.

Then again in May for their airshow.


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Pogo68 #10 Posted 01 November 2017 - 08:47 PM

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View PostHeibges, on 01 November 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

 

The Altitude Bands were put in place due to gameplay issues, and had nothing to due with any huge problems with the flight model. The same thing with the Arcade Boost they added at the same time.

 

The base problem was with the Game Mode, and they tried to correct it with changes to the flight model.

 

 

Still frustrating to be in an A6M5 and not to be able to take the fight up to the 109's and P-51's.

Edited by Pogo68, 02 November 2017 - 04:43 AM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Heibges #11 Posted 01 November 2017 - 09:42 PM

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View PostPogo68, on 01 November 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

 

Still frustrating to be able to be in an A6M5 and not to be able to take the fight up to the 109's and P-51's.

 

I totally agree. For a while even the 109's and P-51's were like that, and the HF really ruled the roost.

 

This probably killed the game at launch, which I thought was really a tragedy.


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J311yfish #12 Posted 02 November 2017 - 06:16 AM

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Mitsubishi A6M historical modules and notes

-- A6M1, A6M2, A6M3

-- A6M2-N

-- A6M2-A6M4 notes

-- A6M5-A6M8c

 

I suspect that the rationale for deviating from historical specs has to do not just with game balance (obvious), but also greater differentiation from future IJN line with J2M, N1K1-J, etc. (less obvious).


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Mikula #13 Posted 02 November 2017 - 09:58 AM

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I have been suspecting the same thing J311y. I think World of Warplanes wants an easy going game. Not close to realistic like War Thunder.

That can be a good thing. In War Thunder I remember getting frustrated with "pilot snipe". Someone would just zoom in, 3 round burst at the cockpit, killing the pilot. They wouldn't even bother trying to shoot up the aircraft.

Though I do agree with the OP. I do find it odd at how they numbered everything. Two of the biggest examples is the Javelin and the XF-90. The Javelin and the Swift basically had the same top speed (under the best conditions). So Why make the Javelin faster than the Swift? Get a different airplane at that rate. As for the XF-90.. That was a cancelled project. It was not faster than the Sabre or the other  tier 10's (in real life).

Edited by Mikula, 02 November 2017 - 10:05 AM.





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