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Ground Attack: Soviet vs German


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ramp4ge #1 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:13 AM

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I've been playing the German ground attack line almost exclusively except for a brief jaunt down the IJAAS to get the Ki-61 because Ki-61s are sexy af. I never really paid much attention to the Soviet tree, except that it always seemed a lot easier for the Soviets to do a lot more damage in a much shorter period of time. I was also wondering why I saw so few players in German GA planes but so many in Soviet GA planes.

 

So I sauntered over to the Soviet line to look at their tech tree and it pretty quickly became apparent why.

 

So, let's compare the tier I'm at. Tier 6 with the Ju-88.

 

Ju-88 gets 1 50mm cannon.

IL-2(Товарищ) gets 2 37mm cannons, 2 (big) bombs and 8 rockets.

 

Ontop of that, the IL-2(Товарищ) has 100 more health, which allows it to actually stay in the fight longer. 

 

The clear winner here is the IL-2(Товарищ). But the discrepancy just seems to get worse the higher up the tier you go..

 

Tier 7, the Me 264 gets 2 useless 7.92mm, 2 useless 20mm, 2 questionable 30mm. I say this because I don't have confidence in their capabilities against armored ground targets. To cap that off, you get 2 token 250kg bombs.

 

Meanwhile, over on the Soviet side, you get 2 45mm cannons with an armored ground target perk, 2 250kg bombs and 8 rockets.. You also get 300 more health.

 

At tier 8, the Me 329 gets 4 30mm cannons (again, questionable against armored ground targets), and 2 250kg bombs. While over on the Big Green and Ugly side you get 2 57mm cannons, 2 500kg bombs and 12 rockets. And 400 more health..

 

I didn't even bother looking past that because the Me 329 was going to be my endgame, since it's awesome looking and I've had a fascination with it since I first saw it on Luft'46 a decade or more ago. But I mean, what's the point? The Soviets are obviously better at it. By an enormous degree. If my theory holds up and the 30mm cannons prove to be next to useless against armored ground targets, and you only get 2 relatively small bombs, what's the point of the plane? 

 

Guess I'll find out for myself soon enough. 



BladedPheonix #2 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:50 AM

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going to give a small rant/ complaint here.

 

1st: your'e a fool if you underestimate the  Me 264! those things can shred both GTs and planes with great speed! you don't even need the bombs!:playing:

 

2nd: No IL10 comment? It's a legend in WOWP!:(

 

 

and lastly: as for the IL'20. the quad 20mms are better than the 57mms because they don't over heat as much and they're also more accurate!

 

 

anyways to answer your question!:B

 

before the game was updated to ver. 2.0 the German GAFs were intended to be a cross between heavies and GAFs, allowing players to attack both GTs and planes,thus making them to be more flexible in the old game mode when compared to the slower more heavilly armored Russian GAFs! they can also fly at higher altitudes than their Russian counter part and their guns don't overheat as fast..

 

 



ramp4ge #3 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:59 AM

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So basically they're heavy fighters that aren't as good at being heavy fighters as heavy fighters, and their ground attack planes that aren't as good at being ground attack planes as ground attack planes.

 

I'm almost to the 265 so I'll find out soon enough.



FIight #4 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:55 AM

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View Postramp4ge, on 29 October 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

So basically they're heavy fighters that aren't as good at being heavy fighters as heavy fighters, and their ground attack planes that aren't as good at being ground attack planes as ground attack planes.

 

I'm almost to the 265 so I'll find out soon enough.

 

me265 is the only non-premium GAA in game that is capable of dogfighting with fighters, another is IL10M;

german GAAs have more energy and turn faster, and a soviet one cannot catch it;

despite lack of outboard weapons, the tier 9 carries 1 57mm anti-tank cannon, so virtually you don't need rockets and bombs, besides the rear guns are so powerful

that could open fire at 1000m or more;

the tier 10 german GAA beats IL40P to the ground, and in 1.9 someone who drives IL40P would beg me-1102B in enemy team for mercy;

you will see how fast that is for 4 30mm to deplete the huge hp pool of IL40

 

 


Edited by Einssniper, 30 October 2017 - 02:56 AM.


Zigfreid #5 Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:16 AM

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View PostEinssniper, on 29 October 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

 

me265 is the only non-premium GAA in game that is capable of dogfighting with fighters, another is IL10M;

german GAAs have more energy and turn faster, and a soviet one cannot catch it;

despite lack of outboard weapons, the tier 9 carries 1 57mm anti-tank cannon, so virtually you don't need rockets and bombs, besides the rear guns are so powerful

that could open fire at 1000m or more;

the tier 10 german GAA beats IL40P to the ground, and in 1.9 someone who drives IL40P would beg me-1102B in enemy team for mercy;

you will see how fast that is for 4 30mm to deplete the huge hp pool of IL40

 

 

 

Einssniper is so right and on point, and more right in 1.9.

In 1.9 it was death match, if you got killed it was over.

So an IL would have a very difficult time to kill a german GA.

A german would have no problem killing a ussr ga.

So all the bombs and rockets would do you no good dead.

And in 1.9 every time you shot a target the map would ping you.

So the german GA would hunt you and kill you, first plane to die.

Then the german GA would kill ground and air targets for 15 minutes.

Now do you start to see the big picture, and how each plane is used?

 



amade #6 Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:35 AM

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View PostZigfreid, on 30 October 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

 

Einssniper is so right and on point, and more right in 1.9.

In 1.9 it was death match, if you got killed it was over.

So an IL would have a very difficult time to kill a german GA.

A german would have no problem killing a ussr ga.

So all the bombs and rockets would do you no good dead.

And in 1.9 every time you shot a target the map would ping you.

So the german GA would hunt you and kill you, first plane to die.

Then the german GA would kill ground and air targets for 15 minutes.

Now do you start to see the big picture, and how each plane is used?

 

 

I kinda feel like Multiroles and HFs are better in 2.0's conquest meta. Swoop in, blow GTs up to fill half the circle, kill any planes to fill the rest, sector capped. If there are absolutely no planes to shoot down, then one or two more Multiroles or HFs helping with the bombing will cap it easily. And they can deal with enemy planes much better than GAs or Bombers.

 

It does feel like GAs and Bombers don't really quite fit in 2.0, even more ironic is the fact that Bombers were introduced in 2.0's so it should've been more at home in it. That said, if my team mates are bots, I'd rather have them use a tanky GA than a multirole/HF to take down Mining Plants. Bot GAs do a better job at killing GTs than bot Multiroles or HFs.



vonluckner #7 Posted 30 October 2017 - 07:45 AM

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The German line seems better for GA vs. GA dogfights, which are more common than you'd think.

Having spectated players in them, and playing up the Ilyushin line myself, they seem strong. The only situation where Soviets are definitively, hands-down better are where you're taking down a factory. In other situations, the stronger ordnance must be weighed against the greater ease of shooting down AI defense fighters.

cobra_marksman #8 Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:29 AM

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Simply put.......the German line 265 & 329  are Mutts. They both live in a world of their own, they supply some ground support on targets.....they will take out most Ga's in their tier, & they are great support planes to help out in the fight by supplying good fire power & damage to anyone who accidently gets in their gun sight. They are fun to fly & can be a game changer if you fly them correctly, and use them for what they were designed to do.

gerr22 #9 Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:40 AM

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carefull of IL10 and IL10 m in a whale fight but 265 and 329 very good 

LMG #10 Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:10 AM

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From my experience, soviet GAAs are better at destroying ground targets, while german GAAs are better at killing other GAAs. For example, if a Ju 88 P and an IL-2 (t) are in the same area, the Ju 88 P won't win the capture race, and the IL-2 (t) won't win in a proper dogfight
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StoptheViolins #11 Posted 03 November 2017 - 02:54 PM

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With German planes I just hold and wiggle at med and light ground targets and they'll go away before the guns over heat - heavy targets... not so much... those i'd have to bang all day to get to fall.

FIight #12 Posted 04 November 2017 - 11:02 PM

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not to say we who come from 1.9 have something called female pilots

HazeGrayUnderway #13 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:14 PM

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For GA, my first one to work on was the Russian line.  Currently at Tier VI, the grind is slower for me due to other game priorities.  However, I progressed faster with the German Hvy Fighter line, got all the way to Me 262.  As a result, I used my Me 410 to also unlock the Me 265.  The 410 to me was absolutely fabulous so getting the XPs required for unlocking 265 after already doing 262 was a pleasure.

 

It was interesting playing the 265 compared to the Russian GA IL-2 series.  She flies very, very well for a GA.  The guns are pretty decent but the ordnance is very light compared to IL-2 series, it's not even close.  Still, on those occasions where GA's run into each other at a cap, I really like the Me 265's handling as a GA.  She can maneuver and eat up RU GAs easily.



Bubba_Zanetti #14 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:21 PM

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View PostEinssniper, on 04 November 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

not to say we who come from 1.9 have something called female pilots

 

http://blog.worldofwarplanes.com/mechanics/valkyries-attack/

 

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StoptheViolins #15 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:23 PM

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265/365 definitely need a bit more ordinance or bigger guns.  Although the 30mm are effective they are shallow when compared to what the 87's guns can do.

vcharng #16 Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:23 AM

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I am actually quite surprised to see complaints about 265 and 329 for being under-gunned. They perform so well in my hands that I actually fear about them being nerfed every day!

I don't know about the Russian counterpart, but the 265/329's bombs reload every 50 seconds, a whole lot faster than the previous bomb-carrying German GA, the Fw189C.(the only Soviet GA I have is the IL-2 mod., and the reloads are 90 seconds for both rockets and bombs) What I do is to find 2 soft+hard target sets, sweep the hard parts with my guns first, than drop one bomb for each set of those targets (in some cases 2 bomb and no gun sweep for one all-hard target set), and then I'll just start shooting at soft targets and probably some of the hard targets I wish to bomb after the reload. Unless we are attacking factories (where there are few soft targets), this usually works pretty well.

Another advantage of the 265/329 line is its speed. A stock 265 is already faster than both IL-8 and IL-10 fully upgraded. In the current environment where bots are more common than human, you can totally fly a 265 behind enemy lines and take down a point before the enemy reacts (or, at least, force an enemy human pilot to divert from the frontline to engage you). However, maybe the mobility advantage will be less important after players came back, then we might need a buff.



LMG #17 Posted 28 November 2017 - 04:52 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 28 November 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

I am actually quite surprised to see complaints about 265 and 329 for being under-gunned. They perform so well in my hands that I actually fear about them being nerfed every day!

I don't know about the Russian counterpart, but the 265/329's bombs reload every 50 seconds, a whole lot faster than the previous bomb-carrying German GA, the Fw189C.(the only Soviet GA I have is the IL-2 mod., and the reloads are 90 seconds for both rockets and bombs) What I do is to find 2 soft+hard target sets, sweep the hard parts with my guns first, than drop one bomb for each set of those targets (in some cases 2 bomb and no gun sweep for one all-hard target set), and then I'll just start shooting at soft targets and probably some of the hard targets I wish to bomb after the reload. Unless we are attacking factories (where there are few soft targets), this usually works pretty well.

Another advantage of the 265/329 line is its speed. A stock 265 is already faster than both IL-8 and IL-10 fully upgraded. In the current environment where bots are more common than human, you can totally fly a 265 behind enemy lines and take down a point before the enemy reacts (or, at least, force an enemy human pilot to divert from the frontline to engage you). However, maybe the mobility advantage will be less important after players came back, then we might need a buff.

 

ILs' recharge time is 90 seconds for bombs and rockets. The thing is that you get a lot more ordnance, so while the MEs can take down an armored ground target swiftly, the ILs can take down 2 or 3, and still have decent cannons available. Aside of that, speed is only really helpful in a GAA when you're traveling from one control zone to another, because speedy fighters usually can still catch up to you, and when strafing ground targets you want to go slow to shoot at the target for longer, dealing more damage. However, when it comes down to taking down other GAAs, all of the MEs' advantages shine very bright :great:


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pyantoryng #18 Posted 28 November 2017 - 05:08 PM

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Bad news: The 1099B-2 has 90 sec reload for its 4x250kg bombs

 

Good news: The 1099B-2's 50mm can knock out armored sections in 6-7 hits, making it significantly less reliant on ordnance. You sacrifice ALL your air to air capabilities doing that, however.



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Pogo68 #19 Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:45 PM

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View PostEinssniper, on 04 November 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

not to say we who come from 1.9 have something called female pilots

 

I moved Marina to the IL-40 where her skills seems to be best suited

Charlotte is still in the 110E, though I'm contemplating moving her to the 262 HG II


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vcharng #20 Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:20 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 28 November 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

Bad news: The 1099B-2 has 90 sec reload for its 4x250kg bombs

 

Good news: The 1099B-2's 50mm can knock out armored sections in 6-7 hits, making it significantly less reliant on ordnance. You sacrifice ALL your air to air capabilities doing that, however.

 

Well the 1099 don't have any gun loadout that actually allows you to shoot at flying targets anyway. The only one "kind of" capable of doing so is its stock gun, the top 30 mm, on the other hand, has a RoF of 90 RPM, making it still unsuitable for flying targets.




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