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I like 2.0 I don't get the complaints at all.


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armydoc83 #41 Posted 16 October 2017 - 05:57 AM

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If there are throngs of people in love with this new version, they'd have voted their opinion on the poll. If WoWP was averaging ~500 people during peak times, and the poll has >150 people choosing a negative response to Conquest Mode, that is a very significant portion of the population. Even making the reasonable assumption that the same 500 people weren't playing every night, you could still guesstimate that 20% of the current player base is rather pissed.

 

This means that WG has to replace that 20% JUST to get the same estimated income as they had in 1.9. They need to increase the player base by a lot more in order for this change to be viewed as a 'success'. Keep in mind that even with a 50% increase in players that would only be 750 people online max.


Is this new change so awesome that it is going to offset this huge block of angry players on multiple continents? I doubt it. In any case, new players alone won't make 2.0 profitable, players spending money will. Long term customers have always been a more reliable source of income for businesses than newcomers. You've already won the long-term customer's loyalty, they're not going anywhere unless you anger them. The new guy is just as likely to poke their head in, say 'huh, neat' then walk off to do other things.

 

So with the vocal minority on this forum actually being the people that are defending 2.0, how do you guys intend on making this venture profitable? Are you going to buy 5X as much gold, premium time, and planes as we did just for them to break even? Otherwise 2.0 is an objective failure in the most glaring way possible... financially. 

 

I honestly don't know how you guys count us as a minority anyway. Unless somebody is creating large numbers of accounts with WG just to come onto the forums and sock puppet, the huge dearth of different accounts posting unfavorable reviews should be a pretty clear indicator that a lot of people don't like this.



DDJohnston #42 Posted 16 October 2017 - 06:06 AM

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View Postarmydoc83, on 16 October 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

If there are throngs of people in love with this new version, they'd have voted their opinion on the poll. If WoWP was averaging ~500 people during peak times, and the poll has >150 people choosing a negative response to Conquest Mode, that is a very significant portion of the population. Even making the reasonable assumption that the same 500 people weren't playing every night, you could still guesstimate that 20% of the current player base is rather pissed.

 

This means that WG has to replace that 20% JUST to get the same estimated income as they had in 1.9. They need to increase the player base by a lot more in order for this change to be viewed as a 'success'. Keep in mind that even with a 50% increase in players that would only be 750 people online max.


Is this new change so awesome that it is going to offset this huge block of angry players on multiple continents? I doubt it. In any case, new players alone won't make 2.0 profitable, players spending money will. Long term customers have always been a more reliable source of income for businesses than newcomers. You've already won the long-term customer's loyalty, they're not going anywhere unless you anger them. The new guy is just as likely to poke their head in, say 'huh, neat' then walk off to do other things.

 

So with the vocal minority on this forum actually being the people that are defending 2.0, how do you guys intend on making this venture profitable? Are you going to buy 5X as much gold, premium time, and planes as we did just for them to break even? Otherwise 2.0 is an objective failure in the most glaring way possible... financially. 

 

I honestly don't know how you guys count us as a minority anyway. Unless somebody is creating large numbers of accounts with WG just to come onto the forums and sock puppet, the huge dearth of different accounts posting unfavorable reviews should be a pretty clear indicator that a lot of people don't like this.

 

You have to remember that if it's anything like ships or tanks, less than 10%, and probably even less than that, actually post on the forums regularly.  So, that does tend to skew things a bit.  Also, when a month ago, I couldn't even find a queue with 1 other human, but tonight, I found a match with 4 humans a side, after midnight central time, and was playing matches with 8 and once even 10 humans per side earlier in the day, that means that despite what you see on the forums, only WG actually knows what's being seen on the server, and it may be actually quite different than the distribution you are seeing on that poll.  Also, historically, and this isn't just WG, people come to the forums to complain, and they go to the server to play.  

 

Yes, they hid that number.  I would have hid it, too, with the kind of shi*storm that was going on here earlier.  Nothing good could come from putting it out there at the moment, and nothing constructive was happening in the forums, anyway, at least not till a few hours ago.  I suspect some bans happened, but that's only supposition.

 

I'm sure you'll ask for proot.  I have no proof...but neither do you.  We'll all have to wait to see if it works for WG or if it fails.



armydoc83 #43 Posted 16 October 2017 - 07:57 AM

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I'd say that taking down the player number is a rather significant indicator of WG unease at this update. Putting it up is as easy as a few lines of code that they've already had out so if they had a chance to brag they'd have every opportunity to take it. Why else would they hide the current player count unless they don't want their lack of success to be visible to the public?

 

As for your luck with opponents, in 1.9 I rarely had to wait more than one minute to find a match at any tier, even if it was 1v1 humans. Usually though, I'd be able to pick up 3v3 or 4v4 even at 3-4 AM. During peak times, it wouldn't be that unusual to pick up matches of 15v15 with only 1-2 bots per side.

 

In the end though, the people answering GPs poll were many of the names that I saw as allies and opponents while playing 1.9. It still remains that they were a huge and steady financial bloc that now not only has to be replaced, but surpassed. Companies that try to play 'out with the old and in with the new' rarely manage to pull it off simply because they're gambling with a higher payout and it takes a long time to actually build new customer loyalty. I'm not going to pretend that 1.9 was a cash cow, but giving away the chicken that gives you an egg every day to eat because you believe a herd of cattle will wander into your yard is a surefire way to an empty stomach.

 

The only real evidence I can offer to back this up is WG's track record as business of making risky choices that they either had to roll back or stubbornly held onto in the face of customer backlash. This is coupled with the fact that they've released a buggy update. When new customers are exposed to this kind of thing, their initial impression is the lasting one and if they're turned off they'll never come back.

 

But you're right, time will tell. I just have to wonder if WG would be able to eat crow in order to gain back a chunk of the players they just lost if their gamble blows up in their face?



Project_Runway #44 Posted 16 October 2017 - 09:28 AM

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The game lost all sense of strategy... the factor of getting the player to be immersed in gaming content is totally gone.  Stats we worked for over 3 years to boost our planes and pilots, are now null and void.  They mean nothing.  Each match is a fiasco of rolling the dice and respawning at some point.  Classic PacMan has more depth than this pile of v2.0 crap.

 

Spoke to Tech Support.  They said they were getting tired and annoyed with all the complaints.  That's wonderful.  The paying customers are upset, and their contacts at tech support don't want to hear it.

 

The Devs and Product managers on this game do their own thing all the time, without considering any of our pleas to patch bugs, or enhance content to be more realistic and level balanced.  Instead, their answer is to strip all the components that gave an edge to any given player, and turned it into an arcade app a little kid at the mall will be downloading onto their phone in no time at all.

 

They lost the adult players and aiming to satisfy the new ones graduating from sponge bob sqaurepants, to a cheesey little flight sim, that will respawn you no matter how bad you suck at playing it.  Don't worry, you still get lots of participation medals.  But the really tough ones to get are gone... stripped away... because the game is so shallow, that it is impossible to award strategic goals in it now. 

 

It's so disappointing.  All the effects of veteran gamers is lost.

 

Our investment of time, wasted. 

 

Our invested of dollars, went into their pockets and not into game improvements.

 

Our advice on patching and enhancing the game - deleted it seems.

 

I cannot remember another game I invested time and energy in, that because so bad, so quick and lost their entire veteran player base over a weekend.

 

There is no point in playing this game now.  It leads to nothing...

 



Bubba_Zanetti #45 Posted 16 October 2017 - 10:21 AM

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View PostProject_Runway, on 16 October 2017 - 04:28 AM, said:

The game lost all sense of strategy... the factor of getting the player to be immersed in gaming content is totally gone.  Stats we worked for over 3 years to boost our planes and pilots, are now null and void.  They mean nothing.  Each match is a fiasco of rolling the dice and respawning at some point.  Classic PacMan has more depth than this pile of v2.0 crap.

 

Spoke to Tech Support.  They said they were getting tired and annoyed with all the complaints.  That's wonderful.  The paying customers are upset, and their contacts at tech support don't want to hear it.

 

The Devs and Product managers on this game do their own thing all the time, without considering any of our pleas to patch bugs, or enhance content to be more realistic and level balanced.  Instead, their answer is to strip all the components that gave an edge to any given player, and turned it into an arcade app a little kid at the mall will be downloading onto their phone in no time at all.

 

They lost the adult players and aiming to satisfy the new ones graduating from sponge bob sqaurepants, to a cheesey little flight sim, that will respawn you no matter how bad you suck at playing it.  Don't worry, you still get lots of participation medals.  But the really tough ones to get are gone... stripped away... because the game is so shallow, that it is impossible to award strategic goals in it now. 

 

It's so disappointing.  All the effects of veteran gamers is lost.

 

Our investment of time, wasted. 

 

Our invested of dollars, went into their pockets and not into game improvements.

 

Our advice on patching and enhancing the game - deleted it seems.

 

I cannot remember another game I invested time and energy in, that because so bad, so quick and lost their entire veteran player base over a weekend.

 

There is no point in playing this game now.  It leads to nothing...

 

 

I think you may need to reread that response.  I read it as they were saying they understand you talked with a number of reps and you were getting understandably annoyed.

 

Also, can you clarify what you’ve lost regarding stats?  The experience for each pilot and skills obtained are still there, they weren’t wiped.  The old stats can be obtained on your profile page.  They’ve changed the requirements drastically for most rewards as well as adding new fluff.  It’s not perfect, but it is what it is.


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jack_wdw #46 Posted 16 October 2017 - 11:56 AM

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Well regarding the stats, i couldn't care less.


The only thing that really annoys me, is that this new mode is shoved up our arses, including kindergarten flightmodels, ui and controls.
If you just left the regular battle next to the conquest option, that would be something already....

 
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Krieger19D #47 Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:54 PM

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View PostZapperguy, on 15 October 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Hoping they pull the plug altogether on WoWP at this point.

 

My guess is that's probably not actually what you want, but if it is you can do that for yourself without any help from WG.

 

I have a friend who likes 2.0 a lot, and I didn't play enough pre-2.0 to really care that much, so I play with him. A few others we know might also give it a try.

 

I do feel bad for the old timers who hate it though. Even with only 1k 1.9 battles my initial reaction to 2.0 was, umm... less than positive.



Noreaga #48 Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:36 PM

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am i happy that they spent 3-4 years pulling a SWG by constantly playing with the graphics and sound? Am i happy that they were so incompetent that they released a patch that gutted 50% of the population and took 6 month to fix it? Am i happy that the fix to 1.5 gutted the rest of the population? No of course not, I am annoyed and pissed that we got to this point at all. Its hard to look at this and see a company that has not learned from single mistake it has made, 

 

To i get to complain about how stupid it is we are at this point at all? yes and i will continue to do so.

 

That being said we are here, it happened and there is not going back. Those of you that are happy with this fantastic! I hope its a great success and that you spend many hours of fun here. Personally i find flash tower defense games to be more enganging, but i also seem to like games that fail... Tabula Rasa, Albion Online, WOWP.

 

once again have fun if you like it, but remember that if had been done with a minimum of competence there could now be two equally popular modes, meeting the wants of two different sets of population. instead we this. 

 


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Big_Spud #49 Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:37 PM

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Always get a laugh at reading these forums. There's always some form of delusion going around, but I guess that's what happens when you spend 40,000 games doing nothing but shooting down bots.

 

The game was effectively dead before, now it might have a chance (who knows, maybe even World of Warplanes Blitz will be a thing for mobile). The fact that WG even kept the lights on for this long is astounding.

 

Anyways, where do I collect my check from WG for not hating 2.0?



HessXXX #50 Posted 16 October 2017 - 03:24 PM

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Granted the game is not where any of you wanted it. The conquest mode leaves much to be desired. You would tell me I have no place to speak due to my low level games, but honestly, I loved the game in Alpha, and as it progressed I became less impressed with its direction so I went on once in a blue moon out of boredom. I enjoyed the game without any regard to what was being said, always have.

Now that I look at fellow testers, and what everyone across all the servers are saying. Isn't it a little selfish? You have all been playing for years, with an extremely small population pool. The update is bringing in new players to the game, and even some of the old players are sticking around. Give it some time, and hopefully things will be changed to incorporate some new game modes which I can honestly say I really hope that happens sooner rather than later because Conquest is starting to get rather stale.

At any rate, I think this needs to be given some time, the controls are user friendly, not everyone likes the more complex control systems, and not everyone has a joystick to use. All in all, I am enjoying the new update, but find it severely lacking in game mode, and long term playability, but as with everything I will give it more time. If it doesn't improve, I will just stop playing like I did after the beta, and wait for something more substantial to catch my eye.

Mind_Eraser #51 Posted 16 October 2017 - 06:34 PM

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View PostBig_Spud, on 16 October 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Always get a laugh at reading these forums. There's always some form of delusion going around, but I guess that's what happens when you spend 40,000 games doing nothing but shooting down bots.

 

The game was effectively dead before, now it might have a chance (who knows, maybe even World of Warplanes Blitz will be a thing for mobile). The fact that WG even kept the lights on for this long is astounding.

 

Anyways, where do I collect my check from WG for not hating 2.0?

 

With 19 battles you have ZERO knowledge of past or present input

Just sayin

 

I'll check back when 3.0 is here in 2020


 


slider15 #52 Posted 16 October 2017 - 11:26 PM

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I still think version 0.5.0 was the best. After that it was all down hill in my opinion. Stopped playing sometime after 1.5. Can't remember if it was 1.7 or 1.6. 2.0 is different, not sure if I like it or not. But I will say it no longer feels like WoWP. My biggest gripe at the time I quit was the wait time for matches particularly higher levels and then getting 1v1 for the trouble. I am trying to keep an open mind but I really don't know. Plus what was the point of wiping stats but letting everyone keep their non premium planes. Not sure what the point of clearing statistics was supposed to do. Before you start, yeah I know that's nitpicky considering everything else. lol

Edited by slider15, 16 October 2017 - 11:28 PM.


Magnum62 #53 Posted 17 October 2017 - 03:06 AM

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View PostNoreaga, on 16 October 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

am i happy that they spent 3-4 years pulling a SWG by constantly playing with the graphics and sound? Am i happy that they were so incompetent that they released a patch that gutted 50% of the population and took 6 month to fix it? Am i happy that the fix to 1.5 gutted the rest of the population? No of course not, I am annoyed and pissed that we got to this point at all. Its hard to look at this and see a company that has not learned from single mistake it has made, 

 

To i get to complain about how stupid it is we are at this point at all? yes and i will continue to do so.

 

That being said we are here, it happened and there is not going back. Those of you that are happy with this fantastic! I hope its a great success and that you spend many hours of fun here. Personally i find flash tower defense games to be more enganging, but i also seem to like games that fail... Tabula Rasa, Albion Online, WOWP.

 

once again have fun if you like it, but remember that if had been done with a minimum of competence there could now be two equally popular modes, meeting the wants of two different sets of population. instead we this. 

 

 

This says it the best that it can be said... THANK YOU

Edited by Magnum62, 17 October 2017 - 03:07 AM.


AncientRaig #54 Posted 17 October 2017 - 11:31 PM

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View PostFog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai, on 16 October 2017 - 04:25 AM, said:

 

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying alot of old plpayers are going to leave. The new version is a knock off of their competitor along with crappy respawn mechanics. That doesn't help people learn to fly at all, crutches don't help. The new players won't stick and the old players will not come back after this. People like Jingles are saying "ITS SO MUCH BETTER" without having played since 1.0. How is that even fair? They didn't play 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, etc and their memories of the game are 3 years old. 

 

At the same time, people like Jingles saying that is going to bring more attention to the game. It's what got me to give the game another shot, and I haven't played since the alpha. Without this change causing big names like Jingles to take another look, I'd have never bothered to pop back in and see if the game was any better because it was such a steaming pile of nearly unplayable crap back then. When I heard about 2.0 I was honestly surprised that WG hadn't shut off WoWP and was actually still working on the game. And with War Thunder diving headlong into a "Everything must be ultra realistic no matter what damage it does to the balance!" mindset, I decided I'd give it a try. And I'm enjoying it. It's not perfect (Conquest isn't exactly balanced on some maps, GA isn't really rewarded well for the risk you put yourself at, planes feel somewhat "samey", flights are limited to 2 players, and other things), but it's fun. And that's more than I could say the last time I played.

Edited by AncientRaig, 17 October 2017 - 11:33 PM.


NotEnuffDakka #55 Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:02 PM

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View Postarmydoc83, on 16 October 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

If there are throngs of people in love with this new version, they'd have voted their opinion on the poll. If WoWP was averaging ~500 people during peak times, and the poll has >150 people choosing a negative response to Conquest Mode, that is a very significant portion of the population. 

 

Most of the people who are happy with the game are too busy playing it to voice their feedback. It's how people work, normally. Happy people are quiet people.

I liked it and I haven't even voted in that poll, for example.



Weapon_of_Proliferation #56 Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:11 PM

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I don't waste my time on this forum very much anymore, because I know nobody in charge reads or cares, but i just want to add here (my second post regarding this topic):

 

I do not agree with the OP, I feel 2.0 has become a clone of a game that I never liked to begin with, and it has changed so much, it is effectively dead to me.

 

The flight and damage model are on par with a year 2000 era B grade game.

 

Thanks for accepting my money WG, then turning around and changing the product so negatively that the people who say you spend on WG are 'suckers', ... turned out to be correct.

 

Can I have my forum title changed to 'Sucker' or 'Stooge'?



Lady_Athena #57 Posted 19 October 2017 - 12:25 AM

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View PostBig_Spud, on 16 October 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Always get a laugh at reading these forums. There's always some form of delusion going around, but I guess that's what happens when you spend 40,000 games doing nothing but shooting down bots.

 

The game was effectively dead before, now it might have a chance (who knows, maybe even World of Warplanes Blitz will be a thing for mobile). The fact that WG even kept the lights on for this long is astounding.

 

Anyways, where do I collect my check from WG for not hating 2.0?

 

View PostMind_Eraser, on 16 October 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

 

With 19 battles you have ZERO knowledge of past or present input

Just sayin

 

I'll check back when 3.0 is here in 2020

 

Isn't it a great day and age we live in, where somebody's input is regarded as trash, useless, ignorant, or some other delusional idea if they have less than 10k games, yet if they have more than 10k games, they are just a "fanboy".

 

Does't take 10k games, or even 1k game, or even 100 games to see if the game is something A) You like B) Balanced enough for you C) gives you a good experience, and D) has a player base you enjoy.

 

Doesn't take 100 or even 20 games to play the game modes, and see what is balanced, and not balanced about them, and if it's enough of a deal breaker for you.

 

Idk where this stupid "you must have x amount of games for your input to be noticed" comes in. If you're talking about deep core stats/mechanics and balances across the board in every stat, sure then I could see having a vast number of games would matter.. but for this? and what we're talking about? get real. 20 games is enough.

 

 

View Postdityboycom, on 15 October 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

 

1.This game was an alternative to Warthunder, now it is Warthunder.

 

2. It doesn't sound like you really understood how standard battles worked, which really nullifies the rest of your post, as an obvious reason you like the game now. You get to mindlessly fly around and do stuff, and your contribution doesn't really impact the outcome; but, you get to see whatever score you care about real high, and feel satisfied.

 

3. People complained when Wargaming made a dynamic Supremacy system, you really think they will be able to comprehend capture the flag, mixed in with 8 other game modes at the same time. You can kill all the planes in the game 8 times over and still lose becaus eyour bots never got on the right flag.

 

4. Wargaming has failed long before most of us still playing started playing. As some alpha player said "ONLY US NON 200 + Gamers know!"  There are certain phases of their failures which were more popular than others. One thing for certain, is every itteration instead of making slight changes and rolling people into new games, graphics, and sounds: we were left to feel like we were playing a brand new game every major update. 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, 1.8, 1.9, and now 2.0.

 

 

 

 

From my complaint fest I've had with my homies, anecdotal I know;but, the consensus is if wargaming had released these graphics, and this game mode as an alternative ( Does it really matter, as bots fill all the games anyway?). Leaving Standard battle in tact with UI interfaces, controls, and supremacy. No one would be upset. New players could play the mode they enjoy so much because they don't actually care about the outcome, and the players who have waited patiently, and paid 10's of thousands of dollars into this game awaiting a decent update can enjoy the new changes, without the game mode, horrendous interface, and auto aim.

 

 

I have to disagree.

 

1) It isn't War Thunder. War Thunder is more realistic, and it has modes that have some sort of realism to it. Even if it is extremely russian bias throughout every game mode. Only reason I stopped playing War Thunder is because before the stupid BR system implimentation the game was amazingly realistic. But it's still far more realistic in arcade than this game.

 

2) I know exactly how standard battles worked. I stopped playing because of how standard battles worked. It relied mostly on fighters, and kills. Bombers, or ground attack could do their thing hitting ground targets, but if you had enough fighters they were just sitting ducks. So it became "team with more OP fighters wins". No matter what.

 

Now though you can make a difference with ground attackers, or bombers, the objectives allowing the tick score to over ride air kills. I've influanced a game to winning by attacking ground targets. I've influanced a win by attacking bombers, I've influanced a win by attacking fighters.

 

Countering what you're enemy is strong in, is the key to winning this new game mode, and each strength has a counter, there is no one that trumps all anymore.

 

It sounds like you simply don't understand the new game mode.

 

4) Why does this matter? Is this supposed to be an argument? Is WGing supposed to say "well gee, our game is dead, lets not do anything to fix it and keep minor changes coming to appease the few people we do have"? Sucks to be you, really does. But a company can't afford that. You're not a special little snow flake regardless of how much  money, time, or experience you've put into the game. You were playing essentially a dead game, that WGing needed to alter in major ways, and continue to alter in major ways until they get it right.

 

Don't like that? Tough. There's the door, see you later. Have a nice life. Life isn't always fair, I've had many games where my favorite iteration of it was removed, and changed, and everyone loves the "new" iteration. My example of War Thunder is a perfect example, before the BR changes 3 years ago the game was by far the best fligth game to ever be made. IT was incredibly well balanced, realistic and historically accurate, until they fked it up with the BR system, and numerous other stupid decisions and revisions. Yet everyone seems to love it more now than before. Sucks to be me. But I lived, and you will too.


"You have x games" is not an argument, or defense for anything. It's a last ditch attempt to save face when you have nothing else to argue your point with.




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