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What the......Bot!


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Z3M #1 Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:55 PM

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I am not a big forum reader or poster. This has probaby been asked a hundred time, why do they crash?  Is there any reason for it?  I am not looking for a conspiracy theory either.  A legit reason for the crashing.  Start about 5:25 into the replay.  The bot played well until this point.  Like Stalin reached up and said " nope, not my planes."

 

https://youtu.be/cDCXZzYRRMA



Fly_Time #2 Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:09 PM

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What you experienced has been complanied about over and over by many of us. I have been in quite a few battles where my team had a lead on the meter and planes killed when all of a sudden our bots would start crashing for no reason. Sending in a ticket to wargaming would be a waste of your time,just consider it a game quirk and deal with it like the rest of us. See you in the skies.

Z3M #3 Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:16 PM

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I have seen it before as well.  Just never so blatant. I have seen them crash while fighting, never seen one just wing over and crash.  Maybe I haven't been paying attention....haha.

RedSpartacus #4 Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:31 PM

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I think bots are programmed in a way to simulate human players.

How many human players have you seen crashing all of the sudden into the ground. How often do you crash for whatever reason ?

With a bot population way higher than human players you see them crashing more often.


 


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lurpmaster #5 Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:52 PM

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:ohmy:LOL yesterday I watched the entire enemy team either run into the ground or hills our team never scored a kill the match ended a draw I have been playing a long time and have never had this happen before .

pyantoryng #6 Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:00 PM

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Bots have lots of problem navigating difficult terrain...especially the east side of Plateau...

 

They may shoot perfectly, but they can't make the delicate control required to navigate those kind of terrain.............:sceptic:



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Mackunaima #7 Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:25 PM

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Well my explanation sounds like a conspiracy theory using a huge tin foil.

 

Once I could brake the source code, but I coudn't find nothing related to crashing bots. What I could find was a sent and request  parameters, and a few snippets where could be part of some logic trying to balance match, giving to both sides equal chances of victory and constantly balancing the battle to achieve it.

 

I really like statistic, and before my big pause in game I was taking notes about players envolved in match and their stats and battles results considering bots also. I would need a bigger scenario to prove my point, more players sending me their results also. But my (now it comes) theory is accordly to the pattern I could see, the most important stats considered by that old script is total battles played, survival rate, KD ratio, Win Rate, average XP, in this order.

 

So, most basic thing to understand is: "a loss for experienced player dosen't hurt so much like a loss hurts for noob player".

 

It is just WG giving participation trophy (as SOJO says) to a non-good player.

 

Comparing your stats with you human enemy:

                You     |   Enemy

Total battles:  2893    |   2643
Surv Ratio   :    41%   |    37%

KD ratio     :   3,46   |   1,77

Win rate     :    59%   |    52%

Avg XP       :    501   |    625

 

So considering these stats, you are the biggest influence in the battle. You can kill twice more, and survive longer enough (to increase your WR..). Take this as compliment from WG. So basically, bots will do what they can to give to the other human a victory.

 

You can reach much more higher stats, around 90% WR, but not relying just on bots using a regular light fighters in solo.

 

Regards,

Mack


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Mackunaima #8 Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:33 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 25 July 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

Bots have lots of problem navigating difficult terrain...especially the east side of Plateau...

 

They may shoot perfectly, but they can't make the delicate control required to navigate those kind of terrain.............:sceptic:

 

There is no issue about delicate terrains. It was fixed when people were asking for autopilot to be fixed. They have it fixed to most weird situations. Is very very very rare to see someone be killed by autopilot, even when you dive fast into cliffs or mountains, autopilot can fix your path and put you back safe.

Edited by Mackunaima, 25 July 2017 - 08:34 PM.

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pyantoryng #9 Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:43 PM

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View PostMackunaima, on 25 July 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

 

There is no issue about delicate terrains. It was fixed when people were asking for autopilot to be fixed. They have it fixed to most weird situations. Is very very very rare to see someone be killed by autopilot, even when you dive fast into cliffs or mountains, autopilot can fix your path and put you back safe.

 

I'm not talking about autopilot. I still remember the autopilot that kills along with the old National Park, where that seem to often happen with hills positioned near the border...

 

So you're saying that bots crashing en masse while fighting over difficult terrain is a part of conspiracy to help the inferior player(s) win?



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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Mackunaima #10 Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:59 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 25 July 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

 

I'm not talking about autopilot. I still remember the autopilot that kills along with the old National Park, where that seem to often happen with hills positioned near the border...

 

So you're saying that bots crashing en masse while fighting over difficult terrain is a part of conspiracy to help the inferior player(s) win?

 

Autopilot is the same script coordination for bots to fly. you become a bot when you are in autopilot.

 

Yes, Im sying crashing bots is the manner WG found to reset the clock. And as you could see, Z3M still could be able to win the battle.

 

The best utopic approach would be WG develop new scripts for helpless useless GAs to counter fight humans. But this would take a lot more code, time and work.

 

And we know they dosen't like to work properly nor take seriously their game... :trollface:


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Fly_Time #11 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:09 PM

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Actually what Mack is saying makes a lot of sense to me4

 



Azis_ #12 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:29 PM

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View Postrb1951, on 25 July 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Actually what Mack is saying makes a lot of sense to me4

 

 

I tend to agree...Hey Fair and Balanced, RIGHT!?!?

 

:izmena:

 

Most times it takes me 3-5 battles to get a victory in my Beau, I can jump in any other plane with less than a few hundred battles, suck [edited]and still survive and get a victory 1-2 battles.


Edited by Azis_, 25 July 2017 - 11:31 PM.

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armydoc83 #13 Posted 26 July 2017 - 05:55 AM

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Eh, I'm not too sure of that. I've had 1v1 human matches with 9 bots per team and after I and all but one bot fighter were dead, both ILs suddenly crashed into the ground. Nothing happening at that point except robbing the other team of kills.

 

For whatever OCD reason, I do a lot of watching of other players if I die early in a match be they human or bot. While I might be watching the 6 of a human player, I'll also watch bot movements. One thing I've noticed is that bots tend to get very confused when they're tracking a target through narrow areas. Think of it kind of like when bot GAs take a couple of pot shots at approaching fighters before blissfully going back to attacking ground targets as they're slaughtered. You see a hint of a program starting to go into action, but then it is overridden by the original behavior and so it looks like it has changed its mind a couple times.

 

When you apply this to bot fighters, it seems that they get conflicting signals when it comes to avoiding terrain and attacking a fighter with a known position. The higher priority task seems to be to set up an ideal approach to the enemy plane while avoiding terrain seems to be overridden. You see them hesitating as they approach the cliff face or hill, but then they get pulled back into their approach vector and dirt dart. While this hasn't been the case every time, it been so in the majority of the cases that I have witnessed.

 

So not a game balancing act, just AI short circuiting when it's near the ground.

 

Good to know about the balancing factor of the bots though. I have had so many games where all but 2 bots and I are left on my team and the other team has lost maybe one plane. This happens even when the only human players are in ILs so the game shouldn't be expecting you to carry 8:1 odds at that point. I had probably the worst run in my entire experience last night. For the first few hours I was getting wins maybe 5% of the time. It was getting to be a struggle just to get my X2s so I could go to bed, much less wins for the missions.

 

As I was mulling which table to flip, I remembered that I had had an incredible run of 60-80% win rate the last couple times that I had played (would have been near 100% if I hadn't insisted on getting a win in the A6M5...). There's most likely a coincidence to this I thought. And sure enough my luck soon changed back to near 50:50 after I had been 'punished' enough.


Edited by armydoc83, 26 July 2017 - 05:56 AM.


theponja #14 Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:38 PM

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The bot problem is so evident that a very good tactic when you're outnumbered for them it's just to play in a narrow area close the ground/mountains. A lot of time some bot will crash. 

Mackunaima #15 Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:42 PM

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Block Quote

 So not a game balancing act, just AI short circuiting when it's near the ground.

 

This conflicting script happens because bots tends to hold their energy. So if they are programmed to hold their energy they will not slow down to get close to some cliff to have a safe engaging. But funny fact this dosen't explain the fact bots can climb like a mearcat (I could see many times bot boosting longer than usual).

 

Once during some tests, picking an HF I tried to unbalance the battle as fast as I could. So I killed the vet bots first, maybe in 2 minutes all of them were dead. So the sent parameter was my exact location (like a GPS), speed and altitude ( I really don't know why they used this approach, cuz everything is on the server side too, maybe to reuse some routine, problably the same one to update other human client side to give leadsight. Problably this is one of the many points increasing process resources, the main reason to Amazon servers had costs increased forcing them to lower hardware, many tin foil here... lol)..

 

Back.. so speed and altitude, yeah yeah.. and the remainning bots starts to receive the same pattern of data as vet bots.. What the hell, so I realized they become vet bots during the match, even GA was engaging me properly.. again.. what the helll..

 

 


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Mackunaima #16 Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:43 PM

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View Posttheponja, on 26 July 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

The bot problem is so evident that a very good tactic when you're outnumbered for them it's just to play in a narrow area close the ground/mountains. A lot of time some bot will crash. 

 

Yeah they will, but any regular hman would crash in this situation too.. Weird is they start to dive to the ground and lawndart...

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mnbv_fockewulfe #17 Posted 26 July 2017 - 03:42 PM

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This is the most insight into the game I've received ever. :amazed:

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


GUNDY_ #18 Posted 27 July 2017 - 12:13 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 26 July 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

This is the most insight into the game I've received ever. :amazed:

 

Agreed.  It totally makes sense from my experiences in battle.

 

I HAVE seen noob bots turn into vets towards the end.  We have all seen our own team bots crash trying to make us lose the battle we did so well in.

 

Also, when I've died and watching in spectator mode, my ground attack planes do not seem to fight the incoming enemy fighters.  When I have been attacking those last couple enemy GA, they go into super fighter mode and shoot the hell out of me.


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Z3M #19 Posted 29 July 2017 - 05:41 PM

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Thanks for the answers to some of my questions.  I also wonder if it's not time thats a factor for bots crashing.  Always mid too late game it seems.  This bot in the vid was just odd.  Open sky, no enemy planes around, just flying along.   Maybe it only gets a certain time to fly or number of kills, possibly damage as well.  Once it meets it's criteria, it crashes?  




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