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A6M5 Zero fun


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armydoc83 #1 Posted 25 July 2017 - 01:59 PM

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I've managed to max the plane out and it just doesn't seem to cope in Tier VI half as well as the M2 does in Tier V. Numbers seem to back this up. If you compare the fully kitted out A6M2, M5, and A7M, you find that in every category except for Stall Speed, Optimum Airspeed, and Controllability, the M5 skews closer to the M2 than it does its tier VII counterpart. Now, I don't expect the M5 to be at the median between the two other aircraft, but something more than a 40 HP boost in health from the M2 (there's a 100 HP difference between the M5 and A7) would help this thing survive a half second more against the nastiness that Tier VI and VII can bring against it.

 

Altitude band is another thing. Putting it at ~1400 would at least allow it to have a chance to get a shot off against stratospheric BnZ planes. As things stand, if you try to stray too far into the red, you suddenly become akin to that Far Side sketch of the chicken tied to a balloon floating into the samurai bar (ironic I know).

 

Finally, for the plane that is supposed to stick with planes as they climb and use its low stall speed to get the kill as your enemy flees skyward, your major guns' overheat rate does NOT facilitate this. Two seconds of shooting after a 38 brings you a 'your weapons have overheated' followed by you sputtering your guns and doing minimal damage while he gains enough room to loop around and have another go at you.

 

Oh yes, I have had good matches with it. But I imagine it is my worst plane that I've flown with any sense of frequency. I think that, having opened up 11 of the lines to at least Tier V, it is probably the most unforgiving plane in the whole game (IMHO at least). I generally try to insist on not using more than a bit of free XP to tier up a plane so that I force myself to get good with it and get the XP for pilot skills. In this case though, I might break that rule like I did with the Blenheim (not the most unforgiving of the game, but certainly the least fun).

 

Realizing that WG is Russian and Russia still probably holds a bit of a grudge over the Russo-Japanese War, I'm not going to hold my breath that the line will be improved. So instead I guess I'll ask how I can do better with this plane.

 

I currently have Scope and the two Maneuverability upgrades on it. I didn't think to put any of the HP increases on it because 10-20 whole HP for all that cash just doesn't seem worth it. I've been bouncing between 2 philosophies:

 

1. Stay on the periphery of the furball and try to pick off Heavies coming off their BnZ or low flying planes that have been separated.

2. Avoiding the conflict altogether in order to try to have an easier number of enemies to face towards the end of the match.

 

1 tends to go to pot since the furball can move a lot faster than a Zero can. Humans also spot an easy target to zoom down on and bots just have god vision everywhere. I'm pretty well looking crosseyed at the map to see when an arrow is pointed in my direction for too long while also trying to aim at a target. Even so, a half second mistake is the end of the match.

 

2 tends to either have the fight ended before I can re-enter it or (more often) see all the bots on my team killed with 3-4 enemies dead on the other team (that happens in scenario 1 as well). It's also not any fun to just cruise around the edge of the map waiting for others to play the game for you.

 

So any tips?


Edited by armydoc83, 25 July 2017 - 02:01 PM.


Texthor #2 Posted 25 July 2017 - 02:15 PM

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Welcome to the Wonderful World of Flying Tanks !!!!

Light fighters do not count.......



RedSpartacus #3 Posted 25 July 2017 - 02:36 PM

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View PostTexthor, on 25 July 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Flying Tanks !!!!

Light fighters do not count.......

 

Get yourself an I-211 it's a tank buster.
  RUN WITH THE PACK

BuffaloTime #4 Posted 25 July 2017 - 03:16 PM

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I wouldn't put skills on maneuverability, the plane has that. You need speed and power.

WafflesOfWrath #5 Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:04 PM

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The A7M is decent (but that's at a tier where other fighters excel) and the shindens are actually pretty good after several buffs. The rest of the zeros are garbage, though-

I'd say the most competitive zero is at tier 4, after that they just fall off and get weaker and weaker in comparison to other planes at their respective tiers.

Honestly, the zero should have the same stats that the ground-based fighters have (oscars, tonys, etc.) minus a tiny bit of maneuverability or speed. They'd be in a much better place.

WafflesOfWrath #6 Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:05 PM

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You want a fun japanese plane, fly the Ki-88. That plane is great

Vanize #7 Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:00 PM

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View PostBuffaloTime, on 25 July 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

I wouldn't put skills on maneuverability, the plane has that. You need speed and power.

 

a zero will never have speed and power in comparison to what it is fighting no matter how much equipment and skills you throw at it. much better to enhance its strength, which is maneuverability, to make it unrivaled in that realm.

 

 


Edited by Vanize, 25 July 2017 - 05:01 PM.


BuffaloTime #8 Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:06 PM

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View PostVanize, on 25 July 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

 

a zero will never have speed and power in comparison to what it is fighting no matter how much equipment and skills you throw at it. much better to enhance its strength, which is maneuverability, to make it unrivaled in that realm.

 

 

That's true. I stand corrected.



GhostPrime #9 Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:15 PM

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The Japanese fighters are lower in health and dont have the altitude. The J4M, and the J8M are good planes that have better altitude nad firepower. (J8M is technically German though) 

View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 25 July 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

You want a fun japanese plane, fly the Ki-88. That plane is great

 

​Also this. :B


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pyantoryng #10 Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:30 PM

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View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 25 July 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

You want a fun japanese plane, fly the Ki-88. That plane is great

 

The derp gun just doesn't work for me...my choice is the limited-time offer A6M3(exp)...that's having a pair of J7W1 guns at tier 5.

 

Anyway, Japanese planes (IJN line: the Mitsubishi's and the J7Ws had been in a pretty bad position since time immemorial...though it's not as bad as US carriers over in Ships in terms of imbalance compared to other trees. The IJN line's firepower is quite formidable in their tiers and is combined with above average maneuverability.

 

The low stall speed trait is pretty much only relevant to the XF5U that has both the low stall speed and high vertical mobility to take advantage of it...the Zeros doesn't have that kind of vertical mobility. Gotta rely on their superior turning power (worse than Yak-1s but on the high end) while packing firepower to kill enemies caught in turnfights.



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J311yfish #11 Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:54 PM

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View Postarmydoc83, on 25 July 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

So any tips?

 

1. The bait, the mop, the sacrifice -- old post (12/2015) on J7W1, some relevance, minus the portion on bombs further down.

2. maneuverability is your prime defense -- use it to dodge and mitigate damage.  This means maintain a high degree of awareness of your surroundings.  Develop the habit of knowing your vulnerability before engaging.  Don't be afraid to switch targets frequently (even if it seems highly irrational to do so) because the less predictable you are the better your chances at surviving to influence the battle, especially if you are already outnumbered.  You want to be able to dodge bullets before they are fired.  If you don't know your vulnerability, assume you are vulnerable and move!

3. maneuverability is also your prime offense -- via time on target.  Given the importance of maneuverability to both offense and defense, you really should max it out, in my opinion.  Maximize your time on target by turning early -- not too early because you just expose yourself -- but still, try to be early.

4. gear and skills in accordance with the above.

 

The A6M5 is not a forgiving plane.  It is a good one, though, to learn some good habits, and that could translate into greater win rate with other aircraft.  At the very least you will develop a greater understanding of your turn-burn fighter adversaries.  Don't expect to carry a match.  If your team loses the early altitude war then odds will be against you -- but you can handle that, right?


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armydoc83 #12 Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:56 AM

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View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 25 July 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

You want a fun japanese plane, fly the Ki-88. That plane is great

It's my goal, nay my dream to someday elite every line. I'm hoping the IJN line will open up once I hit Tier VII, but I'm starting to see the reason why I usually only see bots in this line.

View PostVanize, on 25 July 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

 

a zero will never have speed and power in comparison to what it is fighting no matter how much equipment and skills you throw at it. much better to enhance its strength, which is maneuverability, to make it unrivaled in that realm.

 

 

Yeah, I go along the RPG standby of buffing your strengths not trying to mitigate your major weaknesses. A 3% buff to a large state will beat out a 6% buff to a weak stat any day of the weak. Middling planes suffer in this game so might as well wedge yourself as far in your niche as possible.

View Postpyantoryng, on 25 July 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

 

The derp gun just doesn't work for me...my choice is the limited-time offer A6M3(exp)...that's having a pair of J7W1 guns at tier 5.

 

Anyway, Japanese planes (IJN line: the Mitsubishi's and the J7Ws had been in a pretty bad position since time immemorial...though it's not as bad as US carriers over in Ships in terms of imbalance compared to other trees. The IJN line's firepower is quite formidable in their tiers and is combined with above average maneuverability.

 

The low stall speed trait is pretty much only relevant to the XF5U that has both the low stall speed and high vertical mobility to take advantage of it...the Zeros doesn't have that kind of vertical mobility. Gotta rely on their superior turning power (worse than Yak-1s but on the high end) while packing firepower to kill enemies caught in turnfights.

Two years ago before my extended hiatus (aka the dark times), a standard Zero tactic would be to chase a plane up as it tried to climb away. The low stall speed and the range/low heat up time of the guns meant that more often than not you could pop a light fighter or do some significant damage to a HF. The nerf bat seems to have hit the line in the interim and you pretty much have a shotgun on the front of your plane that's magma cooled.

View PostJ311yfish, on 25 July 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

 

1. The bait, the mop, the sacrifice -- old post (12/2015) on J7W1, some relevance, minus the portion on bombs further down.

2. maneuverability is your prime defense -- use it to dodge and mitigate damage.  This means maintain a high degree of awareness of your surroundings.  Develop the habit of knowing your vulnerability before engaging.  Don't be afraid to switch targets frequently (even if it seems highly irrational to do so) because the less predictable you are the better your chances at surviving to influence the battle, especially if you are already outnumbered.  You want to be able to dodge bullets before they are fired.  If you don't know your vulnerability, assume you are vulnerable and move!

3. maneuverability is also your prime offense -- via time on target.  Given the importance of maneuverability to both offense and defense, you really should max it out, in my opinion.  Maximize your time on target by turning early -- not too early because you just expose yourself -- but still, try to be early.

4. gear and skills in accordance with the above.

 

The A6M5 is not a forgiving plane.  It is a good one, though, to learn some good habits, and that could translate into greater win rate with other aircraft.  At the very least you will develop a greater understanding of your turn-burn fighter adversaries.  Don't expect to carry a match.  If your team loses the early altitude war then odds will be against you -- but you can handle that, right?

I think that's the issue. I frequently get into situations where my team's bots are smoking meteors falling to the ground within 2 minutes of fighting. At that point I'm getting tracers from 3 different directions and no amount of juking will keep me alive in that.

 

Another issue with bots is that attacking them and changing targets tends to aggravate them towards you. Doing this 2-3 times will eventually get the aforementioned scenario even if both teams are still on parity.

 

The Zero certainly had its place in the meta back in the day. All Soviet fighters were low altitude and thus great prey for you. GAs could catch your single bomb on your back with yowls of 'hax' streaming over your feed, and your ability to chase planes up climbs while sniping them with cannon fire ruined many an amateur BnZer's day.

 

But the meta of the game has shifted to planes with omnipotent view and the game is all about altitude and energy. The Zero just hasn't been adapted to take advantage of this.

 

Honestly, I think the IJA line is what the Zero was meant to become in the modern game.






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