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Actual Aerial Maneuvers?


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Dru83 #1 Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:06 AM

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How many of you have studied actual fighter tactics and use them in game?

 

What are your favorite/most used maneuvers?


 

My intent is to start a discussion that will review many of the basic flying maneuvers that would then be available for newer players to use as a guide.


 

So... I'll start it off with a quick review of two basic vertical reversals.


 

In WWI Max Immelman, a German fighter pilot devised a way to attack planes that had flown by above him going in the opposite direction. This became the Immelman, a half loop followed by a half roll. This works well when you have a lot of energy. The downside to the maneuver is that it often leaves you chasing an enemy and being low on energy (speed). Just pull up until you have done a half loop and are upside down flying in the opposite direction. Then, do a half roll to fly right side up.


 

The opposite of the Immelman is the Split S. In my opinion, the Split S is much more useful than the Immelman, mainly because you exit it having much more energy. Plus the Split S is good for attacking or escaping, where as the Immelman is better for attacking only I think. To do a Split S, simply do a half roll. Then pull up so that you dive into a half loop. In addition to escaping or attempting to attack an enemy that is headed in the opposite direction, the Split S is good for reversing your direction at the end of a Boom and Zoom run. A vertical reversal, especially a downward one like the Split S builds up a lot of speed for the next Boom and Zoom run.


 

Well, I hope that starts some interesting discussions and I plan to be back to share some more of my favorite maneuvers.



DrSinister #2 Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:20 AM

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I have used, High Yo-Yo, Low Yo-Yo, Scissors (Flat and Rolling), Immelman, Split-S, Chandelle, and Displacement Roll. I used Snap Rolls but not that often.

 

I have watch videos from =IRFC= Requiem (they are Rise of Flight videos) but he explains some of these BCM/ACMs) https://www.youtube.com/user/Requiem10NS

I also watch many WarThunder videos that deal with BCM/ACMs.

 

Granted these are different flight mechanics from Rise of Flight to WarThunder to WoWp, but the BCM/ACM are roughly still the same.

 



BCB77B #3 Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:37 AM

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i use them all the time. If you don't, chances are you will lose the game and get shot down. Not many players seem to understand the mechanics of fighting in a three axis environment (up, down, across).

Steel_bomber_ #4 Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:10 AM

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Actual fighter tactics will help you understand to engage an enemy better, a 3d environment with multiple planes changes fast.

But actual fighter tactics does not mean you go into combat alone and bots are useless in the ACM environment.

So what you will need for better performance (like surviving) is a human team member that helps you out and you him.

So if  you are defensive, you hope your team member will be offensive.

All this works best on teamspeak with a buddy in a clan.


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Nvfx #5 Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:24 AM

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Knowing the moves themselves is not enough. You need to know how each move affects your relative position, your target's position, kinetic energy, potential energy, and when to use each of these moves. 

 

On top of that, considering what plane your flying and your target's flying, then use only specific moves to your plane's advantages.

 

For example

if you had higher roll, you can execute scissors or barrel rolls to get behind someone.

 

There's also other factors to consider because it's a game with a boost as an energy bar. So in addition to altitude as potential energy, if they have full boost it's also consider as 'stored' potential energy.



FlakValleyExpress #6 Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:26 PM

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OP do you mean this?

 

 

 

 

 


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GhostPrime #7 Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:25 PM

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View PostFlakValleyExpress, on 21 April 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

OP do you mean this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you or anyone have any videos of you performing any real life maneuvers in game?


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mnbv_fockewulfe #8 Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:13 AM

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My favorite is the split-S. Best defencive maneuver that I like to use with BnZ planes.

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Dru83 #9 Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:54 PM

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Thanks for the video FlakValley, didn't know those existed.

 

 


 

Flight had some interesting comments, especially the one about your boost being basically a reserve energy tank. The trick is deciding when to use it. Do you use it right away to claw for altitude or save it for later emergencies? Or do you do half and half? I used to use half my boost for altitude and save half, but I've found that at least with heavy fighters using all your boost immediately to gain altitude is better in my opinion. With turn fighters, I boost up to the top of their performance envelope and then use any remaining boost to gain as much speed as possible.


 

Dr. Sinister mentioned another of my favorite paired maneuvers, the low yo-yo and high yo-yo. I use the low yo-yo all the time. It's great for getting an aircraft with lesser turning ability into tighter turns than an opponent. While turning, you dive slightly and then climb back to the initial level of your turn, thus cutting inside the enemies turn and bringing them closer to you. I use this with my Spad in low tiers and when done right, the Spad which is does ok at turning but isn't great at it, can easily out turn bots in faster turning aircraft.


 

The high yo-yo is the opposite. While the low yo-yo brings you closer and increases your speed, the High yo-yo slows you down and gets you farther away from your target. This is very good for preventing an overshoot in a turn, especially with low tier aircraft that don't have flaps, like the I-16 or my Spad. While turning, you raise your nose up, thereby losing speed and widening your turn angle. Just don't do too much at once or your enemy will be able to speed away. Also, be wary of raising your nose too much because you can lose sight of the enemy aircraft.


 

There's a saying about losing sight of the enemy, "lose sight, lose the fight"



GeorgePatton #10 Posted 22 April 2017 - 06:50 PM

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View PostGhostPrime, on 21 April 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

 

Do you or anyone have any videos of you performing any real life maneuvers in game?

 

I've got a ton of these. I actually put together an entire 'BCM' lecture series before they completely changed the game mechanics and I got frustrated and stopped promoting WoWP - never published it but it may still be around on one of my external drives somewhere. Seems like there's some renewed interest from WGNA so I might roll it out one of these days in an updated format.

 

 

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GouIdy #11 Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:34 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 22 April 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

 

I've got a ton of these. I actually put together an entire 'BCM' lecture series before they completely changed the game mechanics and I got frustrated and stopped promoting WoWP - never published it but it may still be around on one of my external drives somewhere. Seems like there's some renewed interest from WGNA so I might roll it out one of these days in an updated format.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

Sure, just another thing you started & didn't finish.

Zapperguy #12 Posted 23 April 2017 - 04:03 AM

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I didn't even realize WG had a YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/WorldofWarplanesCom

 

Flight school

Guides

Flight Maneuvers: Canopy roll - Episode 1
Flight Maneuvers: Basic loop - Episode 2
Flight Maneuvers: Combat turn - Episode 3
Flight Maneuvers: Immelman turn - Episode 4

 

 


 

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GeorgePatton #13 Posted 23 April 2017 - 04:55 PM

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View PostGouIdy, on 22 April 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

Sure, just another thing you started & didn't finish.

 

Last I checked, everything I actually started around here was either successfully finished or just never got off the ground due to no interest. Get your facts straight.

 

 

Cheers!
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GouIdy #14 Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:43 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 23 April 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

 

Last I checked, everything I actually started around here was either successfully finished or just never got off the ground due to no interest. Get your facts straight.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

You mean like the clan wars you bailed on & some other self serving individuals took over, yes that was a huge success. What about the time you were going to do up some WOWP highlight videos & you asked the community to submit their video footage, I seem to remember there was quite a bit of interest & you shut it down because you said you were to busy at the time & you would get back to it soon™. Now you're saying that you put together a lecture series that no-one has ever seen or heard of, my facts seem to be in good order how about yours?

MARS_REVENANT #15 Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:01 PM

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View PostGouIdy, on 23 April 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

View PostGeorgePatton, on 23 April 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

 

Last I checked, everything I actually started around here was either successfully finished or just never got off the ground due to no interest. Get your facts straight.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

You mean like the clan wars you bailed on & some other self serving individuals took over, yes that was a huge success. What about the time you were going to do up some WOWP highlight videos & you asked the community to submit their video footage, I seem to remember there was quite a bit of interest & you shut it down because you said you were to busy at the time & you would get back to it soon™. Now you're saying that you put together a lecture series that no-one has ever seen or heard of, my facts seem to be in good order how about yours?

 

Apparently a new SSG logo has been in the works for some time.. But some unexpected issues have come up preventing its completion.

 

As for the tutorials, the old-guard DRACS let it slip that GP was just copy pasting from WIKI and calling it his own.

 

But then again this is the Internet, you can pretty much say anything and not have to back it up.  The younger generation thrives this way.



Dru83 #16 Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:23 PM

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Umm... alright now back to your regular scheduled programming.


 

The Skid:


 

This is a really basic maneuver, simply use your rudder to slide your aircraft sideways. This can make an enemy on your tail miss a burst or two. This is often used when jinking, which is making random maneuvers to both slow down your plane and to make an enemy on your tail miss his shots.


 

In an attack aircraft, you can often make an enemy overshoot by skidding sideways while using flaps and cutting the throttle. A quick turn back in the opposite direction can even get you a shot at the enemy as he flies by.



Dru83 #17 Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:19 AM

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Chandelle - This is basically a climbing turn. As you start you turn, add in around 30 degrees of up angle. This is a good way to build some potential energy as you reverse for another Boom and Zoom run.

GeorgePatton #18 Posted 08 May 2017 - 05:46 PM

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View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 23 April 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Apparently a new SSG logo has been in the works for some time.. But some unexpected issues have come up preventing its completion.

 

As for the tutorials, the old-guard DRACS let it slip that GP was just copy pasting from WIKI and calling it his own.

 

But then again this is the Internet, you can pretty much say anything and not have to back it up.  The younger generation thrives this way.

 

Tutorials - I was utilizing illustrations from a USN air combat manual and translating the real-life skills into control systems we have in the game. Also drawing from my own flight experiences to talk about some of the finer points in my own terms. I am not a fighter pilot, but I do have a lot of experience with virtual air combat and I find much of my success has come from studying real-world combat manuals and utilizing my experience with real-world general aviation to better understand the forces at work even in a game. There's nothing wrong with finding the sources I have found useful and translating them into a game. 

 

If you take the time to go back and read my tutorials, you would see that while I did copy/paste some things, it was never just a straight-up copy/paste - it was tailored to a specific situation and usually had more than just the copy/paste - background information and specific situations where I've found whatever I was discussing to be advantageous or disadvantageous.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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GhostPrime #19 Posted 09 May 2017 - 06:32 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 08 May 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

 

Tutorials - I was utilizing illustrations from a USN air combat manual and translating the real-life skills into control systems we have in the game. Also drawing from my own flight experiences to talk about some of the finer points in my own terms. I am not a fighter pilot, but I do have a lot of experience with virtual air combat and I find much of my success has come from studying real-world combat manuals and utilizing my experience with real-world general aviation to better understand the forces at work even in a game. There's nothing wrong with finding the sources I have found useful and translating them into a game. 

 

If you take the time to go back and read my tutorials, you would see that while I did copy/paste some things, it was never just a straight-up copy/paste - it was tailored to a specific situation and usually had more than just the copy/paste - background information and specific situations where I've found whatever I was discussing to be advantageous or disadvantageous.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

Real world maneuvers often work in the game, its a great place to draw inspiration from. 


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Dru83 #20 Posted 11 May 2017 - 02:41 AM

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Another reversal technique is the Wingover. Unlike many other aerial maneuvers, this one uses the rudder to control the direction change. Pull straight up into the sky and then put your rudder over to slowly aim your nose back towards the ground. This is good for when your target isn't moving very fast on the horizontal. For example, if there is a plane behind you that doesn't climb as well as you, he'll fall away during the climb phase. Then, you can use the rudder to reverse over and dive down on the enemy. I don't do this too much myself, but I have seen some players doing this in BnZ fighters and Heavies. Just watch out because a plane that can climb better than you will have an easy time picking you off, so it's important to know your enemy and your own plane as well.

 


 

This is also really good for finishing off a ground target. Instead of having to fly away horizontally from my target to attack again, I can use the vertical and my rudder to quickly attack the GT again. This works really well in the lower tier more maneuverable GA's like the Hs 123. Dive in, strafe the target, pull up and boost in a climb, throw the rudder over and dive back down on the target.


 

Be advised, during the climbing phase, it is very easy to completely run out of energy and just hang in mid air as a big ol' target for anybody flying by. You need to make sure you start yawing over before you start to run out of airspeed.






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