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P-61 BLACK WIDOW Second request bring her in


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LBAEZ #1 Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:03 PM

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Let's see how much pilots want this bird in wowp?   Start off  what category you would put her?  Second  what tier ? Third tell wowp why it would be great to add this beauty in wowp.   These are my answers to my own  questions  but I want to here where you guys would put.  In my opinion she would be a heavy   tier7   the rest I like to hear you guys opinion

WafflesOfWrath #2 Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:05 PM

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I love her, she's a beautiful plane, but she'd be garbage in WoWP. 

First of all, it would be a Tier 6, not a Tier 7, based on when it was introduced and its performance characteristics. It was a very heavy plane requiring a long runway for takeoff/landing and was slower than a P-38L. In the game, that's an upgraded P-38J.

Can you imagine such a large plane at tier 7 being slower than a p-38J at tier 6? It would get eaten alive. Even at Tier 6 it wouldn't be very good. It would be slower and less maneuverable than a lightning. The only upside would be a quad .50 turret in the rear, but this is at a tier where many planes have autocannon... It would be easily shot down by p-47s, p-51s, 109Fs, Mosquitoes, Me410s, XP-50s...

Edited by WafflesOfWrath, 20 March 2017 - 09:06 PM.


clodhoppr #3 Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:18 PM

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Tier 4...



BobozeeBear #4 Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:02 PM

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Big fan of this plane, I've always wanted to see it in game.

Waffles makes a good case at tier 6 however with this being WGing rules don't usually apply.

I would suggest tier 7 and with heavy fighters being weak in this tier, give it the performance in energy retention, maneuverability and altitude to compete with MGs. 

Being such an unusual aircraft it would probably have to land as a premium. 

As a secondary idea, place it tier 4 as the american tree has no heavy fighters in tier 4


Edited by BobozeeBear, 20 March 2017 - 10:04 PM.

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WafflesOfWrath #5 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:15 PM

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All this being said I'd still fly it... it's a gorgeous plane...

FlakValleyExpress #6 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:32 PM

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Tier 8 premium with an AI controlled turret gunner.:playing:

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Jetway #7 Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:20 AM

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I'm all for more heavies!

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KloudRains #8 Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:18 AM

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The P-61 Black Widow is a beauty, indeed. However, it does not fit well here. It was a so-called night fighter. Its intended design was to make all-weather intercepts. The Black Widow came in too late and did not have a shiny war record. It was prominent for being the first Army Air Force bird for on-board radar intercepts.. There just were not that many night bombing strikes to intercept during its service. I saw a couple and got to sit in one of them at Nellis AFB about 1950 being tested to tow banner targets for fighter aerial gunnery. The A-26 was chosen for that role until the dart targets came along.  I will say the Black Widow has long been a favorite. My father got me an all-black model used for identification ground training in the Air Corps when I was about age 6. I also made my own models of it long ago.

Maybe this rationale does not hold up when you consider that the F-94C was intended to be a strategic interceptor of high-altitude bombers and has transmogrified into being a maneuvering day-fighter in WoWP.  Well, it filled a gap. Does the P-61 fill a gap here? 

The USAF dropped the P-61 from its inventory rather soon in favor of jets with much better radars. They did not even wait for the jets as the Black Widow was replaced by the Twin Mustang, the  F-82. It was similar in concept as the twin-fuselage Me109Z. The F-82 had a huge pod in the center section containing an improved radar. The radar operator sat in the right cockpit. The day after the invasion of South Korea in June of 1950 F-82s were launched out of Itazuke Air Base at Fukuoka, Japan to roam over the battle area. They shot down at least one enemy aircraft that day for the first kills of many in the war. Many F-82s were in service without the radar pod and I saw and crawled over a few of these at Nellis. One of the best WW II pilots I later flew with in the F-100 was a guy named Virgil K. Maroney. He stopped the progression of his rise in rank by landing an F-82 with a wingman at Bergstrom AFB, Texas about 1953. What was the problem with that, you ask? Well, he did it by storming down Initial in the weeds and pulled up with vigor over the end of the runway, dropped gear and flaps at the top of a loop (raised them?), and smoothly touched the pair of F-82s down together. This bit of history should make it clear that the F-82 would be a better choice for us; to be used in the clean-wing day fighter role. It was a much hotter machine. 

I think if either of these aircraft is introduced here it should be as a premium bird because a line of interceptors seems inappropriate. 



Jetway #9 Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:59 AM

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View PostKloudRains, on 20 March 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

The P-61 Black Widow is a beauty, indeed. However, it does not fit well here. It was a so-called night fighter. Its intended design was to make all-weather intercepts. The Black Widow came in too late and did not have a shiny war record. It was prominent for being the first Army Air Force bird for on-board radar intercepts.. There just were not that many night bombing strikes to intercept during its service. I saw a couple and got to sit in one of them at Nellis AFB about 1950 being tested to tow banner targets for fighter aerial gunnery. The A-26 was chosen for that role until the dart targets came along.  I will say the Black Widow has long been a favorite. My father got me an all-black model used for identification ground training in the Air Corps when I was about age 6. I also made my own models of it long ago.

Maybe this rationale does not hold up when you consider that the F-94C was intended to be a strategic interceptor of high-altitude bombers and has transmogrified into being a maneuvering day-fighter in WoWP.  Well, it filled a gap. Does the P-61 fill a gap here? 

The USAF dropped the P-61 from its inventory rather soon in favor of jets with much better radars. They did not even wait for the jets as the Black Widow was replaced by the Twin Mustang, the  F-82. It was similar in concept as the twin-fuselage Me109Z. The F-82 had a huge pod in the center section containing an improved radar. The radar operator sat in the right cockpit. The day after the invasion of South Korea in June of 1950 F-82s were launched out of Itazuke Air Base at Fukuoka, Japan to roam over the battle area. They shot down at least one enemy aircraft that day for the first kills of many in the war. Many F-82s were in service without the radar pod and I saw and crawled over a few of these at Nellis. One of the best WW II pilots I later flew with in the F-100 was a guy named Virgil K. Maroney. He stopped the progression of his rise in rank by landing an F-82 with a wingman at Bergstrom AFB, Texas about 1953. What was the problem with that, you ask? Well, he did it by storming down Initial in the weeds and pulled up with vigor over the end of the runway, dropped gear and flaps at the top of a loop (raised them?), and smoothly touched the pair of F-82s down together. This bit of history should make it clear that the F-82 would be a better choice for us; to be used in the clean-wing day fighter role. It was a much hotter machine. 

I think if either of these aircraft is introduced here it should be as a premium bird because a line of interceptors seems inappropriate. 

 

Let us remember the 410 in game.  A night fighter that did quite poorly in the war.  Far worse than the black widow.

Jetway.png

 

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LBAEZ #10 Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:18 AM

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Wow didn't know that about the f82. Was a bit of a stretch  calling it a tier7   but let's just take it back a bit compare to the xp58  how would  there be any comparison in statistically .it's obvious  it won't have the ceiling performance  of a P38 . Would I be wrong to say it would behave more like a xp58 ? Anyway I just wanted to see if there would be anyway wowp could fit this plane in and ask our players for supporting  the idea

 

 


Edited by LBAEZ, 21 March 2017 - 04:20 AM.


LBAEZ #11 Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:41 AM

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There is plenty of videos that shows the actual flight training  for new pilots taking the controls on this plane it's in black and white but will find it interesting

Edited by LBAEZ, 21 March 2017 - 06:54 PM.


__BLACK_PRINCE__ #12 Posted 25 March 2017 - 09:15 AM

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checked out video I never knew how tight that cockpit was like to see any plane in black come in this game..lol

Neblin #13 Posted 30 April 2017 - 04:46 AM

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The P-61 is more or less the same size as the Xp-58. Could slot in it, a t tier lower than the prem plane, so, tier 7.

Also, if I remember right, didn't the 61 have 20mm cannon in the wing roots as well?

 

Jetway, the 410 was in the Zerstorer class, like the original 110's, and was mainly used to break up daylight bomber raids, tactical bombing, and recon.



Rounne #14 Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:33 PM

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I thought they said years ago that bombers would be in the game. But that never happened either.

Psicko23 #15 Posted 01 May 2017 - 12:09 AM

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View PostRounne, on 30 April 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

I thought they said years ago that bombers would be in the game. But that never happened either.

 

Yeah, same with clan wars. That seems to be the running theme here. So much potential...



Shut_Up_and_FLY #16 Posted 01 May 2017 - 05:05 PM

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View PostRounne, on 30 April 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

I thought they said years ago that bombers would be in the game. But that never happened either.

 

We recently had CT testing on a new conquest  game mode that included bombers. Preliminary testing revealed significant further development was required, but the bomber play was pretty nifty. 

Keep your panties on, and wait for 2.0.


Edited by _Warchylde_, 01 May 2017 - 05:07 PM.

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Neblin #17 Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:43 AM

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Well, this thread got derailed a tad...

Wasn't it supposed to be about including the P-61, and where to place it in the tech tree.



Psicko23 #18 Posted 02 May 2017 - 05:59 AM

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View PostNeblin, on 01 May 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

Well, this thread got derailed a tad...

You are surprised by this? 



EspressoForHammy #19 Posted 02 May 2017 - 05:31 PM

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viper587 #20 Posted Today, 10:30 AM

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the P-61 Black Widow was a attack plane - it had 4x 20mm in wings and 4x 50 cal on the top turret  witch could turn 360 degree 4x 500pl bombs under wings or 3x  1000pl bombs 1 on each wing and one in center and had 6 to 8 rockets. still it's not a fighter and if you look at the US line there is no attack aircraft and that would be a good start to have one there 




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