21 replies to this topic

[riose]

Hello guys,

 

riose from EU server again. Is there any way to know what the gun dispersion parameters for each plane are? Kinda like in WoT. I am still in the process of figuring out what crew skill and equipment I should use for each of my planes, and would like to base my decision regarding the use of  the gun sight equipment on some real data, not just assumptions.

 

A good example is Me 262. I am thinking of using Engine Tuning, Aircraft Polish, and either Reinforced Airframe or Improved Gun Sight in the third slot. In the description of Improved Gun Sight equipment in the developer's blog it's stated that: "Improved sights don’t do much for aircraft equipped with long range high caliber cannons."  Similar statement can be found in Marksman skill description: "Note that this skill is most effective for aircraft that are armed with particularly inaccurate weapons like machineguns, and close and medium range cannon batteries." Source links:

http://blog.worldofw...w-pilot-skills/

http://blog.worldofw...uipment-part-2/

 

The effective range of 4x30mm cannons is quite low (616 m), on the other hand all guns are cowling mounted so one would expect the dispersion to be quite low as well. However, according to the description on the developer's blog these guns could benefit from Improved Gun Sight since they fall into "medium range cannon batteries". 

 

What's your  take on this?

 

Cheers,

riose

[losttwo]

The sights will help you hit anything you are not aiming at as well as what you are aiming at.

.....this response made in jest......

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/48531-ace-is-so-easy-even-hellen-keller-can-get-it/page__p__675188#entry675188

[Derpinoid]

Gunsights are a waste the vast majority of the time, save your slots for better stuff, which is almost anything.

[Lethalhavoc]

I thought gun sights helped with reticle bloom while actively maneuvering?

[GouIdy]

Dispersion is one of the hard values Persha doesn't release, a lot of the information that they do release is very general & sometimes even wrong. The best way to pick equipment I find is through trial & error to see what gives you the best results as each player can see different results with the same equipment taking into consideration player ability, play style & environmental factors such as ping/server connection. My philosophy on choosing equipment is based on enhancing the stronger attributes of an aircraft rather than trying to improve the weaker ones.

[riose]

GouIdy, on 08 March 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

Dispersion is one of the hard values Persha doesn't release, a lot of the information that they do release is very general & sometimes even wrong. 

 

That's what I was afraid of... It would be such a great help to have these data since these aiming skills and equipment would be very beneficial in planes with big dispersion guns, while basically useless in highly accurate "sniper" guns...

[Dsembr_Rein]

riose, on 08 March 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

 

That's what I was afraid of... It would be such a great help to have these data since these aiming skills and equipment would be very beneficial in planes with big dispersion guns, while basically useless in highly accurate "sniper" guns...

 

In my experience, while that's what would make sense, the opposite is true. Guns with higher dispersion tend to be more effective at shorter range, so you're already going to be close enough that you're not going to be missing all that much. "Sniper" guns (larger caliber cannons) don't have a high rate of fire and overheat very quickly, so you want to make sure you're using anything you can to improve your chances of a hit.

[DrSinister]

Here is the data on the TVIII 262 30mm:
 

Level	8
Autoaim angle	2
Dispersion angle	0.6
Overheat time	3
Recoil dispersion	0
AP	150
Firepower	200
Rounds per minute	200
Bullet fly distance	171
Bullet mass	0.5
Bullet speed	167
Bullet velocity	540
Caliber	30
Weight	120

 

In Comparison with TVIII P-51H:
 

Level	8
Autoaim angle	3.5
Dispersion angle	0.8
Overheat time	20
Recoil dispersion	0
AP	70
Firepower	65
Rounds per minute	800
Bullet fly distance	144
Bullet mass	0.025
Bullet speed	189
Bullet velocity	890
Caliber	12.7
Weight	60

Edited by DrSinister, 08 March 2017 - 11:52 PM.

[ArrowZ_]

From experience Gun sights equipped on any plane helps hits a little bit but not by much especially the bigger calibres. The crew skill marksman skills do however make quite a more noticeable change due to not only increasing accuracy of guns by tightening the spread but by also increasing hit accuracy towards moving targets & with good aim you could do with both marksman skills in the crew skill tree to increase your DPS, but you would then run out of points to put in other aspects like increasing engine & turning performances and spending the remaining points on unique active abilities. This is all assuming you have good latency with the server and don't have to worry about delays or & lag.

Edited by ArrowZ_, 09 March 2017 - 12:34 AM.

[mnbv_fockewulfe]

I remember when sights and marksman pilot skill improved your bullet grouping a lot.

[cddlbunny]

Did we not have the pilot skills published on the NA site earlier on? I remember Eugene putting them on the site, but the stuff by Alexander about equipment is new to me. Out of habit, I always put self sealing tanks and gun sights on. There is some controversy about marksman 1 and 2 that it seems to make a difference on some nations planes and not others. Most opt for engine guru. What does everyone else use in terms of equipment and skills?

Edited by cddlbunny0, 09 March 2017 - 08:09 AM.

[pyantoryng]

Derpinoid, on 08 March 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

Gunsights are a waste the vast majority of the time, save your slots for better stuff, which is almost anything.

 

Gunsights are not complex...that's the deal about them...

[riose]

DrSinister, on 08 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

Here is the data on the TVIII 262 30mm:
 

Level	8
Autoaim angle	2
Dispersion angle	0.6
Overheat time	3
Recoil dispersion	0
AP	150
Firepower	200
Rounds per minute	200
Bullet fly distance	171
Bullet mass	0.5
Bullet speed	167
Bullet velocity	540
Caliber	30
Weight	120

 

In Comparison with TVIII P-51H:
 

Level	8
Autoaim angle	3.5
Dispersion angle	0.8
Overheat time	20
Recoil dispersion	0
AP	70
Firepower	65
Rounds per minute	800
Bullet fly distance	144
Bullet mass	0.025
Bullet speed	189
Bullet velocity	890
Caliber	12.7
Weight	60

 

Wow nice find, so there are some hard data available after all Would you mind sharing your sources? I am interested in how these low caliber and/or short range guns compare with long range cannons like the ones in Ta-152 or the derp guns in Yaks. Quoting the developers blog mentioned in my first post: "For sharpshooter machines like the Yak-9 this skill will be beneficial only when shooting at extreme range"

 

Also thanks to all the rest of you folks for sharing your opinions and advice

[riose]

cddlbunny0, on 09 March 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Did we not have the pilot skills published on the NA site earlier on? I remember Eugene putting them on the site, but the stuff by Alexander about equipment is new to me. Out of habit, I always put self sealing tanks and gun sights on. There is some controversy about marksman 1 and 2 that it seems to make a difference on some nations planes and not others. Most opt for engine guru. What does everyone else use in terms of equipment and skills?

 

I started a discussion about skills and equipment a week ago, you might want to check it out:

http://forum.worldof...es-of-aircraft/

[DrSinister]

riose, on 09 March 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Wow nice find, so there are some hard data available after all Would you mind sharing your sources? 

 

Source is in the game files, but I can not remember where, but nice place I go to is here:  https://gamemodels3d.com/games/worldofwarplanes/

 

This person has it all laid out in an easier format to read.  Only issue is they lock out Tier 8+ unless you are a paid supporter (yes, I am a paid supporter).

Edited by DrSinister, 10 March 2017 - 03:16 AM.

[cddlbunny]

riose, on 09 March 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

 

I started a discussion about skills and equipment a week ago, you might want to check it out:

http://forum.worldof...es-of-aircraft/

 

Not setting the dog I do not have on that hunt, riose. It is just that the producer of the game have the skills part up on the site before you even brought notice of it. The equipment part is the newest one that you have.brought up.

Edited by cddlbunny0, 10 March 2017 - 05:41 AM.

[riose]

cddlbunny0, on 10 March 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

 

Not setting the dog I do not have on that hunt, riose.

Sorry the meaning of this sentences totally eludes me, English is not my first language.  But anyway, I was reacting to the last sentence in your previous post: "What does everyone else use in terms of equipment and skills?" 

[riose]

DrSinister, on 10 March 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

 

Source is in the game files, but I can not remember where, but nice place I go to is here:  https://gamemodels3d.com/games/worldofwarplanes/

 

This person has it all laid out in an easier format to read.  Only issue is they lock out Tier 8+ unless you are a paid supporter (yes, I am a paid supporter).

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I have paid for this service a long time ago in order to get access to hidden stats in wot but then somehow forgot about it. What the developers said seems to correlate well with what I found: derp guns on Yak 9 indeed have extremely low dispersion:

 

37 mm NS-37 (H)

Autocannon

Level	8
Autoaim angle	2
Dispersion angle	0.2

 

45 mm NS-45 (H)

Level	8
Autoaim angle	2
Dispersion angle	0.2

 

The same goes for Ta 152 30mm cannon:

30 mm MK-103 (H) Autocannon

Level	9
Autoaim angle	2
Dispersion angle	0.2

 

On average, the dispersion seems to be 0.6 for cannons and 0.8 for machine guns.

Edited by riose, 10 March 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[ThotCrime]

What exactly is the autoaim angle?  Are small values for this better than large ones?  How do the values affect shooting effectiveness, etc.

Edited by Krumhorn, 18 March 2019 - 01:36 PM.

[Xr901]

Krumhorn, on 18 March 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

What exactly is the autoaim angle?  Are small values for this better than large ones?  How do the values affect shooting effectiveness, etc.

 

larger angles are better. IIRC if a given round flies within that angle of the target it will hit the target instead of missing. 

again, IIRC, the gunsight increases the Autoaim angle while the marksman skills decrease the dispersion angles