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Aim assist removed?


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GouIdy #21 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:24 PM

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on 08 March 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Panic? What panic, this is GREAT news!

 

I played WoWP half the time with the lead indicator turned off anyway. I also play a LOT of WT realistic battles without a lead indicator. This is going to give me a huge advantage.

 

Here is a short video showcasing Hammy's aiming prowess, I am sure he would also be open to sharing his gunnery 101 tips & tricks if you pm him.

 



EspressoForHammy #22 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:34 PM

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View PostGouIdy, on 08 March 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Here is a short video showcasing Hammy's aiming prowess, I am sure he would also be open to sharing his gunnery 101 tips & tricks if you pm him.

 

I should have known you would drag this out. I was demonstrating how well the aircraft can remove damage even when not pointed at the target. I was literally mashing the roll and yaw keys to get it to do that, lol.


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GouIdy #23 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:42 PM

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on 08 March 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

 

I should have known you would drag this out. I was demonstrating how well the aircraft can remove damage even when not pointed at the target. I was literally mashing the roll and yaw keys to get it to do that, lol.

 

You were mashing something that's for sure.

CrayoIaCrayon #24 Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:32 PM

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While viewing that video, I happened to stumble across this absolute jewel.  Enjoy

 


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Noreaga #25 Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:48 PM

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chat made that video. He/She must have been using JS, MK would have random hit at least once.

 

"that P-40 is going to need a lot of help" & " gotta hit the plane man" 

 

nobody really knew how to handle it, 


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ArrowZ_ #26 Posted 08 March 2017 - 11:49 PM

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I'm pretty bummed they removed it as well in this short initial testing. Whether they put it back or not will depend on both persha & the tester's opinions about the lead assist. Going the more "realistic" route to this new mode really doesn't bode well imo. The other title already cornered that meta pretty hard and players over there really enjoy it. Not so much arcade though.

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mnbv_fockewulfe #27 Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:08 AM

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This thread is hilarious.

There hasn't been any "aim assist" in the game since maybe after 1.3(?)

Apparently in closed beta there was an update where the aim assist was increased ludicrously to the point where if you aimed in the general direction of the target the bullets were attracted like magnets to the plane. This caused the damage by guns to increase dramatically and actually brought about many of the vertical BnZ evasion tactics into existence in the game that we have today. Then aim assist was dialed back severely and was brought back some time around 1.2-1.3. I remember this because I am absolutely sure that one time when I was firing my guns, I was aiming rather poorly and a single bullet went out of its way and leapt out of my reticle to track its way to the target. Then aim assist was removed for good.

And to be perfectly honest, not having a lead indicator isn't really that big of a deal. Every once in a while I'll turn off the lead indictor whenever I feel my aim is getting lousy. More often than not the lead indicator will lie to you and only averages out the amount of lead you need with multi-caliber guns. One of the reasons I don't fly with the lead indicator all of the time is that in a way I'm hindering myself while everyone else (and bots) still have the advantage of the lead indicator.

Flying without the lead indicator also means you have to approach your target differently which I'm sure will be interesting to try in the second wave of testing.  


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BrushWolf #28 Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:51 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 08 March 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

This thread is hilarious.

There hasn't been any "aim assist" in the game since maybe after 1.3(?)

Apparently in closed beta there was an update where the aim assist was increased ludicrously to the point where if you aimed in the general direction of the target the bullets were attracted like magnets to the plane. This caused the damage by guns to increase dramatically and actually brought about many of the vertical BnZ evasion tactics into existence in the game that we have today. Then aim assist was dialed back severely and was brought back some time around 1.2-1.3. I remember this because I am absolutely sure that one time when I was firing my guns, I was aiming rather poorly and a single bullet went out of its way and leapt out of my reticle to track its way to the target. Then aim assist was removed for good.

And to be perfectly honest, not having a lead indicator isn't really that big of a deal. Every once in a while I'll turn off the lead indictor whenever I feel my aim is getting lousy. More often than not the lead indicator will lie to you and only averages out the amount of lead you need with multi-caliber guns. One of the reasons I don't fly with the lead indicator all of the time is that in a way I'm hindering myself while everyone else (and bots) still have the advantage of the lead indicator.

Flying without the lead indicator also means you have to approach your target differently which I'm sure will be interesting to try in the second wave of testing.  

 

As it is being used in this case it is the lead indicator.

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mnbv_fockewulfe #29 Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:00 AM

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Yup

 


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mnbv_fockewulfe #30 Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:00 AM

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View PostBrushWolf, on 09 March 2017 - 02:51 AM, said:

 

As it is being used in this case it is the lead indicator.

 

yup

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cddlbunny0 #31 Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:24 AM

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I did not know that you could turn the lead indicator off. Have to check the settings.

Edited by cddlbunny0, 09 March 2017 - 04:25 AM.


EspressoForHammy #32 Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:27 PM

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View PostNoreaga, on 08 March 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

chat made that video. He/She must have been using JS, MK would have random hit at least once.

 

"that P-40 is going to need a lot of help" & " gotta hit the plane man" 

 

nobody really knew how to handle it, 

 

Me and my tanks buddy were flying that match and that's my replay. It's a classic case of someone playing with a JS for the first time and not having any idea how. Poor guy is infamous now. I still see him in game occasionally.

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KloudRains #33 Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:42 PM

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IMO eliminating the target lead indicator in favor of aiming at the target plane is a superb change. It is not the familiar tool but it is the proper solution to getting more hits.

It dispenses with need to generate the aiming circle and straight, connecting line on screen which should help FPS and ping to some degree. We should like reducing computations and graphics display challenge to the systems. It will rid us of the pendulum effect of the aiming circle. Sometimes the connecting line stretches accross 3 inches of the monitor. This brings in ridiculous and needless errors from trying to track its wiggles. We want to track the target instead. This is far more realistic.

I do have a practical foundation in gun sights. It was my side duty to teach a formal class how the A4 gun sight functions and how to best use it for aerial gunnery twice a year, to a group of 120 pilots in my F-100 fighter wing. Later I did the same to many more pilots of various wings in the F-4E. I was one of the handful of test pilots for a project to give the F-4E an "austere" HUD. It did not go into production because of budget needs soaked up by the then-new F-15 production. I led a panel of 3 pilots responsible for selecting the symbols and functions of the HUD display for the F-16 - the functional design. Along the way I ran miles of film through gun cameras in training. Even fired live on a few expensive aerial targets. So, you can see that I have pondered gun sight design and function for many years on the basis of practical experience.

Believe me, the recent CPT gun sight is a great improvement. 

You do not want to use the tracers as the control reference. They were pretty much useless in real combat too and have long ago been eliminated. Just aim at the target and track it whilst firing. Forget the tracers. Just track and fire and you will see sparkles on the target and stuff flies off until it blows. The "stuff' looks fairly realistic the CPT. Wing spars, skin panels, wheels ... leap off the target and fly past the canopy. Your hit percentage will go up because you are maneuvering with regard to that other aircraft rather than translating what the bouncing aiming circle means. Just fly to track that one object, the airplane. Soon, your love for the aiming circle will fade away and you will wonder why you ever thought this was a suitable control element. 

The more photo=like quality of the target aircraft is a subtle but important improvement. It helps perception of target motions and results in better handling of your own bird.

 



BrushWolf #34 Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:52 PM

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View PostNoreaga, on 08 March 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

chat made that video. He/She must have been using JS, MK would have random hit at least once.

 

"that P-40 is going to need a lot of help" & " gotta hit the plane man" 

 

nobody really knew how to handle it, 

 

View PostEspressoForHammy, on 09 March 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

 

Me and my tanks buddy were flying that match and that's my replay. It's a classic case of someone playing with a JS for the first time and not having any idea how. Poor guy is infamous now. I still see him in game occasionally.

 

He was probably using the stock settings which are terribly twitchy for most people because of the lack of dead zone. It is sad that companies don't create good usable base settings. Even WT which is a sim has horrible base settings particularly for simple JS's like the 3D Pro.

 

View PostKloudRains, on 09 March 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

IMO eliminating the target lead indicator in favor of aiming at the target plane is a superb change. It is not the familiar tool but it is the proper solution to getting more hits.

It dispenses with need to generate the aiming circle and straight, connecting line on screen which should help FPS and ping to some degree. We should like reducing computations and graphics display challenge to the systems. It will rid us of the pendulum effect of the aiming circle. Sometimes the connecting line stretches accross 3 inches of the monitor. This brings in ridiculous and needless errors from trying to track its wiggles. We want to track the target instead. This is far more realistic.

I do have a practical foundation in gun sights. It was my side duty to teach a formal class how the A4 gun sight functions and how to best use it for aerial gunnery twice a year, to a group of 120 pilots in my F-100 fighter wing. Later I did the same to many more pilots of various wings in the F-4E. I was one of the handful of test pilots for a project to give the F-4E an "austere" HUD. It did not go into production because of budget needs soaked up by the then-new F-15 production. I led a panel of 3 pilots responsible for selecting the symbols and functions of the HUD display for the F-16 - the functional design. Along the way I ran miles of film through gun cameras in training. Even fired live on a few expensive aerial targets. So, you can see that I have pondered gun sight design and function for many years on the basis of practical experience.

Believe me, the recent CPT gun sight is a great improvement. 

You do not want to use the tracers as the control reference. They were pretty much useless in real combat too and have long ago been eliminated. Just aim at the target and track it whilst firing. Forget the tracers. Just track and fire and you will see sparkles on the target and stuff flies off until it blows. The "stuff' looks fairly realistic the CPT. Wing spars, skin panels, wheels ... leap off the target and fly past the canopy. Your hit percentage will go up because you are maneuvering with regard to that other aircraft rather than translating what the bouncing aiming circle means. Just fly to track that one object, the airplane. Soon, your love for the aiming circle will fade away and you will wonder why you ever thought this was a suitable control element. 

The more photo=like quality of the target aircraft is a subtle but important improvement. It helps perception of target motions and results in better handling of your own bird.

 

 

Removal of the lead indicator will take away the half mile sniping shots which will return most shooting to more historical ranges. I think the removal of the target window is actually worse as it worsens situational awareness.

I used to have a handle on life until it broke off.

                             

 

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Jaguardian #35 Posted 09 March 2017 - 05:15 PM

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View PostKloudRains, on 09 March 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

You do not want to use the tracers as the control reference. They were pretty much useless in real combat too and have long ago been eliminated. Just aim at the target and track it whilst firing. Forget the tracers. Just track and fire and you will see sparkles on the target and stuff flies off until it blows. The "stuff' looks fairly realistic the CPT. Wing spars, skin panels, wheels ... leap off the target and fly past the canopy. Your hit percentage will go up because you are maneuvering with regard to that other aircraft rather than translating what the bouncing aiming circle means. Just fly to track that one object, the airplane. Soon, your love for the aiming circle will fade away and you will wonder why you ever thought this was a suitable control element. 

The more photo=like quality of the target aircraft is a subtle but important improvement. It helps perception of target motions and results in better handling of your own bird.

 

Are you saying you no longer need to lead the target in closed test right now?  All you have to do is aim at the target no matter which way they are traveling?



EspressoForHammy #36 Posted 09 March 2017 - 06:29 PM

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View PostJaguardian, on 09 March 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

Are you saying you no longer need to lead the target in closed test right now?  All you have to do is aim at the target no matter which way they are traveling?

 

Oh god I hope this is not true...

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BrushWolf #37 Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:05 PM

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View PostJaguardian, on 09 March 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Are you saying you no longer need to lead the target in closed test right now?  All you have to do is aim at the target no matter which way they are traveling?

 

View PostEspressoForHammy, on 09 March 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

 

Oh god I hope this is not true...

 

In the video in the other thread on 2.0 they are leading the target but without the lead indicator you have to be a lot closer than you do now to get hits.

I used to have a handle on life until it broke off.

                             

 

“The church is near but the road is icy, the tavern is far away but I will walk carefully”

Russian Proverb

 


KloudRains #38 Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:12 AM

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View PostBrushWolf, on 08 March 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

 

Very true but if they would promote aka advertise it as the better arcade flyer they could grow it. The biggest problem we have is not enough players and getting back to pre release numbers would be a realistic initial goal.

The "C" in CPT stands for Common. This seems to be that the test is common for RU, EU and NA server players. The mix appeared, without actually counting up, in proportion to the number of player said to be on the three servers. About 65% RU, 25% EU and 10% NA. The hint is that this could be a trial to have one common game all the time. Get the numbers of all three servers commingled in regular play.

View PostJaguardian, on 08 March 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

I don't like this simply because I can barely see the tracers in the current game as well as in the leaked test video.

Forget the tracers. I wrote up a rather large comment on the gunsight topic in another thread. The point being scrubbing out the lead indicator system is a very  positive improvement. It stops having to generate very dynamic graphics, helping smoothness. It rids us of the unnecessary pendulum effects of the lead indicator. Now, as with a real gunsight after the middle-30s you point at the target for a stable moment (tracking) and fire. No need for tracers; those went out because their unlike ballistics did not actually show the primary bullet stream and the enemy got early warning. Plus, pilots tended to use the tracers for control; similar to using a garden hose. Best and proper technique is to track the target and shoot while continuing to track. Sparkles appear on the target and bits fly off. In CPT those bits were realistic - wing spars, panels and such. 

The more photo realistic aircraft of the test, enables more authoritative final maneuvering against the target aircraft rather than an aiming circle which can be three inches on the monitor from the target. Thus.better to achieve and m;aintain tracking. My hit percentage of the CPT is an improvement and I had more kills per opportunity.

View Postlosttwo, on 08 March 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

 

I don't want to hold territory I want to shoot planes.

It was not practical to gain and hold territory without shooting planes. That was the priority. I did not see any instance where Ground Attacks could dominate. You have to go after the defending aircraft. Once you destroy the defender aircraft all the targets blow as if the array was hit by a nuke. Not only do you need to shoot planes to gain a territory, you must shoot the enemy coming to take it away. Notice that the defender aircraft had higher point value. A great aspect of this version is the shooting of planes goes steps onward past just hitting targets. You have to think much more about what region to intrude or defend. And, you have to choose whether to defend a target array or to go on to the next. Regardless, you must shoot planes. Lots of them! The tactical interplay is far more complex than it appears during the first few battles. I had to fly around 15 battles to begin absorbing the tactical environment. After about 50 battles, it became plain I was just getting started. 

Clan wars anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



mnbv_fockewulfe #39 Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:02 AM

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Tell us more!

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cddlbunny0 #40 Posted 10 March 2017 - 05:10 AM

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I am wondering if they will be going the way of the "other game" where you are allowed aim assist for the first three levels, then after that you should have sufficient knowledge of how to aim so it is removed in the upper tiers. That would be interesting.

Edited by cddlbunny0, 10 March 2017 - 05:25 AM.





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