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Yea...I'm pissed


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Rosebud #1 Posted 28 January 2017 - 06:38 AM

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It has become obvious to me and I am sure many of you, that once a chain of victories or defeats is set in motion by the algorithms determining your teams make up, that algorithm will persist for several days. If you are on the positive side of it you need only log in to win the majority of your battles. If you are on the negative side you will win only by herculean effort. This ebb and flow is manifest in the MM's balance and team calculations. If it is positive, you get the better  bots, the better humans, the flighted players, game after game. If it is negative you suffer under poorer bots, weaker players and lack of balancing flights, game after game. Either of these persist for days on end.


 

 

Of course if the positive effects were happening to me at this moment I would not write this post. The fact I am writing this means they are not. My question to WG is this...how long do you think the effects of this algorithm should last? Whether for positive or for negative, does the long term manipulating of battle outcomes help or hinder the game? Would it not be better to limit the effects of your so called balance to a shorter period? Maybe saddling someone to crappy teams for days on end is not the best plan for player retention. I understand that it comes at the cost of less gifting of victories, but I am willing to forgo the effortless wins for some degree true daily randomness and true balance.


 

Maybe you could post some number that would indicate how many crappy teams will be foisted on me or how many times I will face two higher tier flighted players, solo. Maybe you could add a countdown section in the upper right stating how many days I have to put up with eight to one odds at the end of literally every game I play. Maybe you could just inform me ahead of time that you are going to put a pack of worthless bots and crappy players on my team and give me a "Screw this" button I can push to opt out. That way I can move on the next imbalanced, poorly controlled, POS excuse for fair play your pathetic, lazy, worthless programming butts can shove down my throat.


 

WG, you need to take a long hard look at your MM and your bots. You programed the MM, you programed in the bots. Game after game of lopsided victories or defeats and tier ten flights of heavies routinely face tier nine solos says to me that Its broken. It says to me, that it needs to be fixed and until it gets fixed this game will not leave the basement of the WG trinity. You put these bots in...you programmed the MM...you need to fix it. This horses posterior of an excuse that you want it to be as random as possible is a smoke screen, I believe you don't want to put the work into fixing it. Hey, it's no problem, I'm going to randomly decide where to spend my gaming dollars using an algorithm to determine which game doesn't screw me over and...oh look...it ain't this one.


 



 


DInk_Spinkley #2 Posted 28 January 2017 - 07:53 AM

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You're just now figuring this out? I've been talking about this for a long time. It appears to be based on login tokens, but don't hold me to that. Still trying to work out some of the smaller details.

 

But yes, the game is rigged, and rigged badly.


My wife said if I can make money playing video games, she'd leave me alone, so....

losttwo #3 Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:11 AM

    which way do we go?

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ROFLMAO...:teethhappy:...

 

I love it when people go spouting off some sort of TIN FOIL hat theory about why they are losing or on a losing streak

instead of trying to do something different.

I know for myself, when I am on a losing streak its is usually because I am rushing to get the kills.

The YOLO effect.

Or perhaps I am hanging back to much. The SCARED effect.

Maybe I can't hit the broad side of a barn. The old man has not had enough coffee effect.

 

Your player name is not assigned some algorithm that determines your "TEAM MAKEUP "

No company would do that. If they did they would have no players.

 

WHO THE FLIP WANTS TO PLAY A RIGGED GAME ?

 

REALLY ...it is not the game or programming, it is you. Plain and simple.

 

 

 



DInk_Spinkley #4 Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:17 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 28 January 2017 - 03:11 AM, said:

ROFLMAO...:teethhappy:...

 

I love it when people go spouting off some sort of TIN FOIL hat theory about why they are losing or on a losing streak

instead of trying to do something different.

I know for myself, when I am on a losing streak its is usually because I am rushing to get the kills.

The YOLO effect.

Or perhaps I am hanging back to much. The SCARED effect.

Maybe I can't hit the broad side of a barn. The old man has not had enough coffee effect.

 

Your player name is not assigned some algorithm that determines your "TEAM MAKEUP "

No company would do that. If they did they would have no players.

 

WHO THE FLIP WANTS TO PLAY A RIGGED GAME ?

 

REALLY ...it is not the game or programming, it is you. Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

No, it's because the game is really rigged. 

 

A login token is more than your username.

 

I just got out of a match in my original account, low level, rarely use it, but I wanted to see if the emblem worked or not (it didn't).

 

Anyway, I had a battle where one side the players had 150 , 410 and 1550 battles. Their team, had three humans. They had 60k, 25k and 20k battles.

 

Guess who won, and why do you think MM didn't distribute players a little better? Of course WG has already said they like the unbalanced games because it's "fun". I'm not talking about the games that go down to the wire either. I'm talking about the ones where the enemy bots fly past all the ally bots, kill you, and then turn and kill all your allies, without losing a single enemy plane.

 

You want to stop driving players away from the game, fix that garbage right there. Don't hand out pittances because you were nice and let others have their safe space.


Edited by DInk_Spinkley, 28 January 2017 - 08:32 AM.

My wife said if I can make money playing video games, she'd leave me alone, so....

Derpinoid #5 Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:29 AM

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There is very significant deck stacking in the game, and some matches are pretty much doomed, but there is more than a small amount of human stupidity that contributes.

 

A few points, first, circling the backfield should be done with care not to overheat your bots, if at all.

 

If you're getting punked, check your missions, or perhaps switch to an elite plane instead of a stock one.

 

If there are other humans, maybe try to work with them, even when you aren't fond of them. (easier to say than do some days)


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Lethalhavoc #6 Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:30 AM

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You know what?

I played this morning, figuring to knock off some x3's and work on a few of the grinds I have going.

Battle after battle, my human team mates went off to bomb GT's and attack GAA's and I couldn't figure out why.

Then after I gave up for the day, I saw the mission; "Shoot down 1 GAA or shoot down 2 other types in one battle and earn 500xp".

That explained everything, and convinced me to not bother trying to do anymore x3's this weekend.

Because if MM gives me any human player that isn't a "good" player, they'll just go off on the GAA kill mission and throw the battle.

It's bad enough most of the time trying to get your humans to do the right things, on events like this... well... it's just not worth the effort.



losttwo #7 Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:33 AM

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You just have to love these people that cry " the game is rigged when playing a game with dice "

They just can't accept a loss.

Those were the days, when everything was DICE.

 

If the game is rigged as so many claim.

 

Lets take a logical look at game design. Just for a minute. We will look at game rigging.

And of course this is going to make you feel worse than you already do.

 

Game designers are interested in player retention and making money.

How do you retain players.

In a random game, if you were the game designer, how would you handle

A system that randomly places SKILLED/ Experienced players against UNSKILLED or new players.

You set an algorithm to give the UNSKILLED player an advantage.

Do you set the advantage to over all skill or per plane skill ?

I believe the more intelligent choice would be per plane skill but I believe WG does it using over all skill.

 

So the match is rigged so that the UNSKILLED player always has the advantage.

In what ever form. Be it RNG, better bots or whatever.

 

Funny thing is. The UNSKILLED player still doesn't try to learn his plane or how to

win against other planes. They still whine about rigging and matches set against them.

Not once will they take a look at " perhaps they did something wrong or they missed something."

 

Meanwhile the skilled player continues to get better and more wins.

What helps him is that he is not clouded by the " matches are rigged idealism "

What helps him is his confidence that he is " THAT GOOD and BETTER than the rest "

 

 



losttwo #8 Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:41 AM

    which way do we go?

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View PostDerpinoid, on 28 January 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

If there are other humans, maybe try to work with them, even when you aren't fond of them. (easier to say than do some days)

 

This is one of the biggest pet peeves for me.

I don't care how you feel about a person based on the forums or even TS interactions.

Leave it in the forums and not in the match.

 

I don't care how another player played the last match, this is a new match.

Don't carry your feeling with you.

Play to win

 

I could " hate " an individual in the forums but I will set all that aside and work with them in a match.

Heck I would even flight up with someone if they asked.



x_WARHOG_x #9 Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:43 AM

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Say what you will but I decide the outcome of my matches...................:trollface:

Sneaking up on your six.....................


Lethalhavoc #10 Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:47 AM

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View Postx_WARHOG_x, on 28 January 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Say what you will but I decide the outcome of my matches...................:trollface:

 

You witnessed the worst match I had today.

When my full health top tier "human" rolled over and pancaked into my P-38J which left nothing but the last 7 bots for you to farm.



TeamTerrible #11 Posted 28 January 2017 - 10:12 AM

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Psicko23 #12 Posted 28 January 2017 - 11:31 AM

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This game isn't rigged. Sometimes you are the windshield, and sometimes you are the bug. You only notice more when you are the bug compared to the windshield. I have felt the same way. The battles might be lopsided, but it's up to you to win or lose. You can't win them all. Even the seal clubbers that spam tier 1 while flighted don't have 100% win rates. 

  In this game one person can carry the team if that person knows what they are doing. I have not seen the same capability in world of warships. I can't speak of tanks since I don't play wot, but my guess would be the same as wows.

   



GouIdy #13 Posted 28 January 2017 - 02:59 PM

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View PostRosebud, on 28 January 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

It has become obvious to me and I am sure many of you, that once a chain of victories or defeats is set in motion by the algorithms determining your teams make up, that algorithm will persist for several days. If you are on the positive side of it you need only log in to win the majority of your battles. If you are on the negative side you will win only by herculean effort. This ebb and flow is manifest in the MM's balance and team calculations. If it is positive, you get the better  bots, the better humans, the flighted players, game after game. If it is negative you suffer under poorer bots, weaker players and lack of balancing flights, game after game. Either of these persist for days on end.


 

 

Of course if the positive effects were happening to me at this moment I would not write this post. The fact I am writing this means they are not. My question to WG is this...how long do you think the effects of this algorithm should last? Whether for positive or for negative, does the long term manipulating of battle outcomes help or hinder the game? Would it not be better to limit the effects of your so called balance to a shorter period? Maybe saddling someone to crappy teams for days on end is not the best plan for player retention. I understand that it comes at the cost of less gifting of victories, but I am willing to forgo the effortless wins for some degree true daily randomness and true balance.


 

Maybe you could post some number that would indicate how many crappy teams will be foisted on me or how many times I will face two higher tier flighted players, solo. Maybe you could add a countdown section in the upper right stating how many days I have to put up with eight to one odds at the end of literally every game I play. Maybe you could just inform me ahead of time that you are going to put a pack of worthless bots and crappy players on my team and give me a "Screw this" button I can push to opt out. That way I can move on the next imbalanced, poorly controlled, POS excuse for fair play your pathetic, lazy, worthless programming butts can shove down my throat.


 

WG, you need to take a long hard look at your MM and your bots. You programed the MM, you programed in the bots. Game after game of lopsided victories or defeats and tier ten flights of heavies routinely face tier nine solos says to me that Its broken. It says to me, that it needs to be fixed and until it gets fixed this game will not leave the basement of the WG trinity. You put these bots in...you programmed the MM...you need to fix it. This horses posterior of an excuse that you want it to be as random as possible is a smoke screen, I believe you don't want to put the work into fixing it. Hey, it's no problem, I'm going to randomly decide where to spend my gaming dollars using an algorithm to determine which game doesn't screw me over and...oh look...it ain't this one.


 

 

What a bunch of bunk, you took a couple losses & now the sky is falling.

 

You only played 9 games yesterday all in GA's & based on your recent W/R lost maybe 2 more than usual.

 



Jaguardian #14 Posted 28 January 2017 - 04:44 PM

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Rigged game is rigged!  Bots decided the battle I was just in.

Rosebud #15 Posted 28 January 2017 - 05:02 PM

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You guys have your idiotic conspiracy theories...I have mine.


 


TeamTerrible #16 Posted 28 January 2017 - 05:13 PM

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Sorry Rosey, 

 

I should of invited you to come play hopscotch with me 

 

 

Somehow I cannot help but blame Ace_Bot for this.........


 

 

         


FreeFOXMIKE #17 Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:51 PM

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View PostRosebud, on 28 January 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

It has become obvious to me and I am sure many of you, that once a chain of victories or defeats is set in motion by the algorithms determining your teams make up, that algorithm will persist for several days. If you are on the positive side of it you need only log in to win the majority of your battles. If you are on the negative side you will win only by herculean effort. This ebb and flow is manifest in the MM's balance and team calculations. If it is positive, you get the better  bots, the better humans, the flighted players, game after game. If it is negative you suffer under poorer bots, weaker players and lack of balancing flights, game after game. Either of these persist for days on end.


 

 

Of course if the positive effects were happening to me at this moment I would not write this post. The fact I am writing this means they are not. My question to WG is this...how long do you think the effects of this algorithm should last? Whether for positive or for negative, does the long term manipulating of battle outcomes help or hinder the game? Would it not be better to limit the effects of your so called balance to a shorter period? Maybe saddling someone to crappy teams for days on end is not the best plan for player retention. I understand that it comes at the cost of less gifting of victories, but I am willing to forgo the effortless wins for some degree true daily randomness and true balance.


 

Maybe you could post some number that would indicate how many crappy teams will be foisted on me or how many times I will face two higher tier flighted players, solo. Maybe you could add a countdown section in the upper right stating how many days I have to put up with eight to one odds at the end of literally every game I play. Maybe you could just inform me ahead of time that you are going to put a pack of worthless bots and crappy players on my team and give me a "Screw this" button I can push to opt out. That way I can move on the next imbalanced, poorly controlled, POS excuse for fair play your pathetic, lazy, worthless programming butts can shove down my throat.


 

WG, you need to take a long hard look at your MM and your bots. You programed the MM, you programed in the bots. Game after game of lopsided victories or defeats and tier ten flights of heavies routinely face tier nine solos says to me that Its broken. It says to me, that it needs to be fixed and until it gets fixed this game will not leave the basement of the WG trinity. You put these bots in...you programmed the MM...you need to fix it. This horses posterior of an excuse that you want it to be as random as possible is a smoke screen, I believe you don't want to put the work into fixing it. Hey, it's no problem, I'm going to randomly decide where to spend my gaming dollars using an algorithm to determine which game doesn't screw me over and...oh look...it ain't this one.


 

 

View Postlosttwo, on 28 January 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

ROFLMAO...:teethhappy:...

 

I love it when people go spouting off some sort of TIN FOIL hat theory about why they are losing or on a losing streak

instead of trying to do something different.

I know for myself, when I am on a losing streak its is usually because I am rushing to get the kills.

The YOLO effect.

Or perhaps I am hanging back to much. The SCARED effect.

Maybe I can't hit the broad side of a barn. The old man has not had enough coffee effect.

 

Your player name is not assigned some algorithm that determines your "TEAM MAKEUP "

No company would do that. If they did they would have no players.

 

WHO THE FLIP WANTS TO PLAY A RIGGED GAME ?

 

REALLY ...it is not the game or programming, it is you. Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 in a vary weird way it both the use past stats to try to set up the Matching system but if your not flexible you get slammed in the negative side 

 

 

but sometimes the game just make you want to 

 

SPRAY n Pray        lol 


Edited by FreeFOXMIKE, 28 January 2017 - 11:25 PM.

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Derpinoid #18 Posted 03 February 2017 - 09:50 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 28 January 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

You just have to love these people that cry " the game is rigged when playing a game with dice "

They just can't accept a loss.

Those were the days, when everything was DICE.

 

If the game is rigged as so many claim.

 

Lets take a logical look at game design. Just for a minute. We will look at game rigging.

And of course this is going to make you feel worse than you already do.

 

Game designers are interested in player retention and making money.

How do you retain players.

In a random game, if you were the game designer, how would you handle

A system that randomly places SKILLED/ Experienced players against UNSKILLED or new players.

You set an algorithm to give the UNSKILLED player an advantage.

Do you set the advantage to over all skill or per plane skill ?

I believe the more intelligent choice would be per plane skill but I believe WG does it using over all skill.

 

So the match is rigged so that the UNSKILLED player always has the advantage.

In what ever form. Be it RNG, better bots or whatever.

 

Funny thing is. The UNSKILLED player still doesn't try to learn his plane or how to

win against other planes. They still whine about rigging and matches set against them.

Not once will they take a look at " perhaps they did something wrong or they missed something."

 

Meanwhile the skilled player continues to get better and more wins.

What helps him is that he is not clouded by the " matches are rigged idealism "

What helps him is his confidence that he is " THAT GOOD and BETTER than the rest "

 

 

Yeah, well, I can predict with about 90% accuracy the outcome of the match before it starts, if the game board isn't tilted, and random as you suggest, how is that possible?

 

(Edit) I feel it's important to explain the underpinnings of this move by WoWP, because it really does dispell the myth that WoWP doesn't listen to it's customers. They really do listen to customers, but not all of them, like any business, you tend to listen to PAYING customers. Paying customers in this game want to win, and don't really care about the particulars, so the metric with weight in battle advantage is gold spending. I'm not saying that it's wrong per se to do that, but WoWP should maybe make an effort to hide it just a smidge better for the free to clay pigeon.


Edited by Derpinoid, 03 February 2017 - 10:06 PM.

Experience only counts when you're doing it right in the first place.

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losttwo #19 Posted 04 February 2017 - 12:49 AM

    which way do we go?

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View PostDerpinoid, on 03 February 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

Yeah, well, I can predict with about 90% accuracy the outcome of the match before it starts, if the game board isn't tilted, and random as you suggest, how is that possible?

 

(Edit) I feel it's important to explain the underpinnings of this move by WoWP, because it really does dispell the myth that WoWP doesn't listen to it's customers. They really do listen to customers, but not all of them, like any business, you tend to listen to PAYING customers. Paying customers in this game want to win, and don't really care about the particulars, so the metric with weight in battle advantage is gold spending. I'm not saying that it's wrong per se to do that, but WoWP should maybe make an effort to hide it just a smidge better for the free to clay pigeon.

 

Well you are correct.

I was just looking at your stats and you are one of the players that is flagged to lose more than win.

It has nothing to do with the way you play the game but since you are a play for free you get the over 50% loses rating.

 

If you spend 2500 gold and change your name to something higher in the alphabet. Perhaps something that starts with K or better

you win rate will increase,.

 

My win rate stays around 62 because my player name begins with the letter " L " .



Derpinoid #20 Posted 09 February 2017 - 12:15 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 04 February 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

 

Well you are correct.

I was just looking at your stats and you are one of the players that is flagged to lose more than win.

It has nothing to do with the way you play the game but since you are a play for free you get the over 50% loses rating.

 

If you spend 2500 gold and change your name to something higher in the alphabet. Perhaps something that starts with K or better

you win rate will increase,.

 

My win rate stays around 62 because my player name begins with the letter " L " .

How about I just spend my time on something that I can trust my skills to actually matter in? The problem for me is not losses, it's the hollow wins, seeing the slant every Fn match, to the point I just don't feel any pride in a win. Ask again why anyone spends their time playing a game like that, because my battle count isn't going up.


Experience only counts when you're doing it right in the first place.

"When everything goes right, you don't learn anything" NASA rocket tester.





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