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Kill Stealing?


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MARS_REVENANT #21 Posted 12 December 2016 - 08:46 PM

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View PostTeamTerrible, on 12 December 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

 

Naw, I call what you do lack of situational awareness

 

If you cannot see that one player is about to take out the "biggest threat" then perhaps you are staring at something wrong

 

Taking out the biggest threat while you have a tial is called tunnel vision. And screams lack of situational awareness.  Many players, including yourself as you described would stay on the kill, have your kill "stolen" and then be killed yourself.  If you know what you were doing you would see the better play would be to abandon the kill knowing you team will take it, and evade being killed yourself, making the situation a 2v1 in your favor.

 

You see... situational awareness and being able to judge priority targets and situation is more than jst thinking about what your team should be doing, rather, it is what YOU do that dictates the match being won or lost.

 

Continually stating that they should be clearing your tail means you are constantly putting yourself in bad situations, and blaming your team for not getting you out.

 

1. You need to think of the battle, not yourself.

2. You dont seem to know how to do that.

3. Nobody can help you if you cant achieve #1.


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Agnotology #22 Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:12 PM

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I define a kill steal as someone who holds fire till something is low HP then opens up in the hopes to snag the kill. 

 

What you are doing in 90% of the circumstances is taking time to shoot a plane that is going to die without your assistance, rather than taking out a plane that can do damage to other teammates. 

 

Bobo quotes it as this, "It's not that I'm stealing, its that you are sharing"

 

On the flip side, if myself and another human player are engaging the same target, whoever gets the final hits gets it. No great shakes either way. But when a bot uses their perfect accuracy cannon to snipe the final bits of HP from max range, that is a steal IMO. 

 

Lastly, assists need to give a bonus to exp like kills, but at a reduced rate. Currently they are not rewarded beyond the HP you do in damage.

 

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 12 December 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

 

Taking out the biggest threat while you have a tial is called tunnel vision. And screams lack of situational awareness.  Many players, including yourself as you described would stay on the kill, have your kill "stolen" and then be killed yourself.  If you know what you were doing you would see the better play would be to abandon the kill knowing you team will take it, and evade being killed yourself, making the situation a 2v1 in your favor.

 

You see... situational awareness and being able to judge priority targets and situation is more than jst thinking about what your team should be doing, rather, it is what YOU do that dictates the match being won or lost.

 

Continually stating that they should be clearing your tail means you are constantly putting yourself in bad situations, and blaming your team for not getting you out.

 

1. You need to think of the battle, not yourself.

2. You dont seem to know how to do that.

3. Nobody can help you if you cant achieve #1.

 

Marco, the other part of this you have missed is that people will engage the plane you are engaging, rather than the plane on your tail. This goes back to situational awareness, but also the mentality of players who came from tanks, where "killing the low HP target first" are words to live by. Warplanes is far more nuanced.


Edited by Agnotology, 12 December 2016 - 09:25 PM.


Omega_Weapon #23 Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:29 PM

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It sometimes feels like kill stealing if you gun an enemy plane down from 100% health to almost dead and then somebody else swoops in and gets the final shot to claim the kill. Doubly aggravating when its bots that proved completely useless during the hard fighting, but manage to land the finishing blow on several wounded planes just before you can claim the kill. Kills are not reserved though so until you have actually killed the plane, it ain't your kill. Usually its every man for himself (or woman for herself), especially where event tasks are concerned. Late in the match if I see somebody working on a target that would get them an ace though, I'll often refrain from snatching those kills since that would cost them a medal as well. Another instance would be where people ask nicely on chat to be able to kill a target whereupon I will typically leave it to them.

Lethalhavoc #24 Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:46 PM

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No such thing, and because of that I could care less.

 

On the weekend I was in a game with 4 kills and we were down to the finally GA, which I offered to the other surviving human.

But he was so damned courteous in trying to let me have it for an ace, that a bot got it lol.


 

I wish there was a place to post replays.



MARS_REVENANT #25 Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:07 AM

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View PostAgnotology, on 12 December 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Marco, the other part of this you have missed is that people will engage the plane you are engaging, rather than the plane on your tail. This goes back to situational awareness, but also the mentality of players who came from tanks, where "killing the low HP target first" are words to live by. Warplanes is far more nuanced.

 

Yes a WOT mentality would certainly explain why Scrub 'A' would try to eliminate a target that is already being eliminated.  However it does not explain why Scrub 'B' remains on a target while he himself is being targeted.  See below for what I was responding to.

 

You see, when you lack situational awareness and you have that tunnel vision, you expect your team to clear you while you remain on target.  Situational awareness is battle wide and includes what your team is doing.  Complaining that your tail didn't get cleared and you got killed means you stayed on target rather than evading being killed.  That is beginner level weak sauce.

 

View PostTeamTerrible, on 12 December 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

I've noticed over the moons that most people target the plane that you have versus the one that has you.

 

Big favor helping to get rid of the one that you didn't need much help with versus the one that is about to kill or already has killed you.

 

 

A player with many moons (over 40k battles) should know the best person to help is yourself.  You wont find yourself in bad situations if YOU stop putting YOURSELF there.  Nobody can help YOU if YOU cant figure that out.

 

View PostLethalhavoc, on 12 December 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

I wish there was a place to post replays.

 

I just post to DropBox, seems to be the easiest way to share files.  And I use imgur.com to host pictures that I can post on these forums.


Edited by MARS_REVENANT, 13 December 2016 - 12:09 AM.

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CrazyHeinz #26 Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:24 AM

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View PostMelBrooks, on 12 December 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

 

Perfectly acceptable if he did not use his turn signal and wave....

 

GAs should use road flares, as well.


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #27 Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:51 AM

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View PostMelBrooks, on 12 December 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

 

We sure are, but I'm going down swinging.....

 

hmmm, but exactly what is swinging, because I believe they make a harness for restraining those things. 

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


MelBrooks #28 Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:39 AM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 12 December 2016 - 07:51 PM, said:

 

hmmm, but exactly what is swinging, because I believe they make a harness for restraining those things. 

 

​I've been married almost 27 years, nothing swings anymore................except the things you would not like to see swinging.

 



Rosebud #29 Posted 13 December 2016 - 03:08 AM

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If I already have a medal and this one kill will not make any difference, I have been known to pull up and give it to the needy. However...if I am one away from an ace or need the kill for a token, be warned, I will steal your kill in a heartbeat. I will open fire from extreme range, I will crash into it, I will do what ever it takes to rip that kill from your grasp. (short of shooting you or getting in your fire stream.) If that upsets you then you need to understand, in my opinion...everyone on my team should have the same attitude.

Edited by Rosebud, 13 December 2016 - 03:12 AM.


 


Zigfreid #30 Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:34 AM

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View PostMelBrooks, on 12 December 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

Seems to be an increase in "edgy" comments and behavior concerning this. A fine lad told me my mother was a completely different species than human and that I should attempt to perform acts on myself that are physically impossible. If an enemy plane flies in front of me, I will shoot it. If I have a teammate or flightmate with a tail, I will shoot it. If the last plane left is a GA and close to me, I will shoot it. Let's be concerned about winning the game over who shot what. 

 

You were fighting like a girl Ruth, glad you grew a pair again Mel +1 lol!

 



DInk_Spinkley #31 Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:58 AM

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Kill stealing is the act of waiting until your teammate has the enemy down to a few points, and then opening fire and killing it. It also typically involves ignoring the 3 planes that are shooting at your teammate, so at the exact time the enemy explodes, so does your teammate. Bots and noobs are the biggest offenders. I just got out of a battle where again, get the enemy down to needed one last shot and a bot flies out of nowhere and takes the kill.

 

It should not be confused with a coordinated attack.


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DInk_Spinkley #32 Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:00 AM

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View PostMelBrooks, on 12 December 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

 

​I've been married almost 27 years, nothing swings anymore................except the things you would not like to see swinging.

 

 


RIP World of Warplanes

beaver_cleaver #33 Posted 13 December 2016 - 05:46 PM

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Simple cure - keep your finger on the trigger and don't let up. Planes die that way............

MARS_REVENANT #34 Posted 13 December 2016 - 05:53 PM

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View PostDInk_Spinkley, on 13 December 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Kill stealing is the act of waiting until your teammate has the enemy down to a few points, and then opening fire and killing it. It also typically involves ignoring the 3 planes that are shooting at your teammate, so at the exact time the enemy explodes, so does your teammate. Bots and noobs are the biggest offenders. I just got out of a battle where again, get the enemy down to needed one last shot and a bot flies out of nowhere and takes the kill.

 

It should not be confused with a coordinated attack.

 

In the scenario you just described, your teammate has no business trying to finish off a target when he has 3 planes on his tail.  At that point, its not kill stealing, it is not rewarding someone who is doing something they shouldn't.

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Noreaga #35 Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:02 PM

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View Postbeaver_cleaver, on 13 December 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Simple cure - keep your finger on the trigger and don't let up. Planes die that way............

 

simple cure 2 - kill the plane before i do.

Nimis obnoxii curare


MajorDodger #36 Posted 13 December 2016 - 10:46 PM

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The big issue is not clearing tails.  I do get the last shot on a few planes along with having others bots are the main ones, i would call kill stealers.  But as stated I will try and give someone who has 4 kills the final kill if i only have 3 kills.  At the same time there are some i wont help, unless we are about to loose.  And as of this post no one who has posted are on my KOS radar.  

Good hunting, fly fast, shoot faster or die in flames.


DInk_Spinkley #37 Posted 13 December 2016 - 10:52 PM

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View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 13 December 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

 

In the scenario you just described, your teammate has no business trying to finish off a target when he has 3 planes on his tail.  At that point, its not kill stealing, it is not rewarding someone who is doing something they shouldn't.

 

Quite the opposite.

 

If I'm finishing a target, and have 3 planes on my tail....when you swoop in and kill the plane I'm finishing instead of attacking the 3 planes on my tail, that makes you a kill stealing jerk.


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DInk_Spinkley #38 Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:02 PM

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View Postbeaver_cleaver, on 13 December 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Simple cure - keep your finger on the trigger and don't let up. Planes die that way............

 

You don't use cannon, do you?
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MARS_REVENANT #39 Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:59 PM

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View PostDInk_Spinkley, on 13 December 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

 

Quite the opposite.

 

If I'm finishing a target, and have 3 planes on my tail....when you swoop in and kill the plane I'm finishing instead of attacking the 3 planes on my tail, that makes you a kill stealing jerk.

 

No, it makes me someone with +1 kill and nobody on my tail, while it makes you someone with no kills and 3 people on his tail.


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Pogo68 #40 Posted 14 December 2016 - 12:54 AM

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View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 13 December 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

No, it makes me someone with +1 kill and nobody on my tail, while it makes you someone with no kills and 3 people on his tail.

 

Actually that makes you the person who was in a 2 v 4 fight and and had a chance to turn that into a 1 or 2 v 2 fight but turned it into a 1 v 3 fight instead and three of them are now behind you.

 

*math edit*


Edited by Pogo68, 14 December 2016 - 12:58 AM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent




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