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Petition- Bring back the Old National Park Map


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Dsembr_Rein #61 Posted 04 November 2016 - 11:58 PM

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View PostGhostPrime, on 04 November 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Hey everyone! 

 

What specifically does everyone like about the older one over the newer one? 

I will be sure to pass this thread along as well. 

 

Spawn Points - Teams started together in a staggered line, allowing players to group up or split into flanks if they chose to do so, and each option was a viable choice. The newer map forces the team into 3 groups, often with the GA and Heavies separated from the main group. Since the map is so large, usually the team that takes the time to group up have the advantage, which is fine in itself, but the huge separation can lead inexperienced players to stay spread out.

 

Size - It was great for tiers 3-5. The battle began quickly but still allowed planes of that tier to reach a proper altitude before the engagement began. When the tier range was altered to include tier 6 it screwed this aspect up, which may have lead to people complaining about the map being too small. The newer version is far too large for anything less than tier 6, but only starts to feel "right" around tier 7/8.

 

Terrain - The cliffside along the southern side of the river and especially the gorge at the waterfall made for interesting dynamics that other maps didn't have (until Fjords was released), and for the most part still don't. The newer map can have interesting moments around the cliffs and peaks in the pass that connects the eastern area to the central valley, but the rest of the map loses the claustrophobic feel that the old one had.

 

Gameplay - The old map could have dogfights end up just about anywhere; the gorge, along the cliffside, the valley in the north west, the flatter open terrain in the north east, or the hills to the south east. Fights in the newer map seems to always end up over the central valley. Of course not all battles are the same, but it still feels more predictable.  Ground targets were evenly placed, and neither side had a real advantage over each other like some maps (Hidden Airbase, anyone?), but the same can be said about the newer version's GTs as well. Again though, because of the size and spawn points, the action starts quickly. There's less posturing and circling of the wagons. That's more of a personal preference, but I think it's one shared by quite a few people.


Edited by Dsembr_Rein, 05 November 2016 - 12:02 AM.


Psicko23 #62 Posted 05 November 2016 - 07:22 PM

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View PostGhostPrime, on 04 November 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Hey everyone! 

 

What specifically does everyone like about the older one over the newer one? 

I will be sure to pass this thread along as well. 

 

The older one was smaller and geared towards lower to mid tiers. I know it went up to tier 5 for sure, maybe tier 6. it's been awhile. the spawn points were closer together like others said. I did like that the valley was one continous valley that split the map. fighting could be done anywhere, but subjectively some of the best dogfights in this game I've had were on that map in the valley area.

  the new map is way too big for the lower tiers. the split spawn points make it a pain to try and grour up before the battle,  especially if you get spawned on one of the sides and you have a potato in the middle that does something stupid  and drags the bots along with them and put the team at a disadvantageous position. This map has less impressive dogfights. yes, there are mountains, but the valleys are too open.

      Maybe if you guys could bring back the old map up to tier 5 or tier 6, and use the new map for tier 6 or tier 7 up to tier 10.



lu1000 #63 Posted 05 November 2016 - 07:33 PM

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yes the map is a little small, but can enlarge the map like they did in wot

Psicko23 #64 Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:44 PM

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View Postlu1000, on 05 November 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

yes the map is a little small, but can enlarge the map like they did in wot

 

that's even better, bring back the old one and make it two sizes. one for the lower tiers, and one for the upper tiers. 

Kiwiav8r #65 Posted 06 November 2016 - 09:10 PM

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To add to what Dsembr said, despite being small it was large enough for plenty of tactical variation.  While you would think that dogfights would always develop over the river valley, they often started elsewhere but ended up there as things descended to low level.  And I endorse what he said about the the terrain, there were several places where you could beat someone by out maneuvering them.

 

Then there's one of my better performances (2 v 6 when I started shooting at aircraft) immortalized in film by Laserguided :honoring:

 

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/28925-wowp-community-custom-video-productions/page__pid__403692#entry403692


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Great_Balls_O_Fire #66 Posted 07 November 2016 - 06:13 PM

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Signed!

 



HZero #67 Posted 08 November 2016 - 05:03 PM

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View PostGhostPrime, on 04 November 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

Hey everyone! 

 

What specifically does everyone like about the older one over the newer one? 

I will be sure to pass this thread along as well. 

 

/signed

 

The old National Park map was good for incredible 15 v 15 furball dogfights.  

 

1) Because it was small and everyone started just moments from firing range, there was immediate engagement by everyone on the team.   

 

2) The low altitude canyon put a cap on the value of high altitude boom n zoom.   Passes took longer to recover from and thus had less overall impact on the battle.  The result was not a disadvantage for BnZ aircraft, but rather provided a natural balance for them.

 

3)  Because of the tight nature of the map, it was viable to have several aircraft escort GA aircraft and keep them safe while still being on call for air to air assistence.  This integrated the GA and aerial battles in a way that has not been present in any other map since then, except perhaps for the current low tier winter night map (do not recall the name of that one).

 

4)  No down time.  It was literally shooting to trying to maneuver to safety to shooting to calling for help to....unlike the current game, where 30 seconds or more can pass (easily) before anything happens.  With the new bot programming, it can be 2-3 minutes before another plane is even sighted, much less engaged.  BORING.

 

5) Because the matches are longer and filled with downtime, players are more easily frustrated if they do badly.    If you did badly on the old National Park, it was over in 3 minutes anyway, and you were back into another match, easy!  More opportunities = more happiness for players.

 

This is what made WoWp great early on - fast, electric, nonstop, pulse pounding matches.  We don't get that kind of match very much anymore.


Dreaming of better days.  When this game had full matches, fiery dogfights, and hope for the future.

 

 


MARS_REVENANT #68 Posted 08 November 2016 - 06:00 PM

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View PostGhostPrime, on 04 November 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Hey everyone! 

 

What specifically does everyone like about the older one over the newer one? 

I will be sure to pass this thread along as well. 

 

Thanks Ghost for looking into this.  My reasoning for the request is already stated several times by others above.

 

Not to be a total Richard, and to sort of play Devils Advocate, but "what specifically was WGs reasoning for replacing the older one with the newer one?"   


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acema #69 Posted 08 November 2016 - 11:48 PM

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/signed

 


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PhoinexFire #70 Posted 12 November 2016 - 03:09 PM

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Keep er going!

x_WARHOG_x #71 Posted 13 November 2016 - 01:47 PM

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/Signed...............:great:

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Yagos2k16 #72 Posted 13 November 2016 - 08:17 PM

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Kiwiav8r #73 Posted 13 November 2016 - 10:23 PM

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/signed - since I forgot to do it earlier :hiding:

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PhoinexFire #74 Posted 18 November 2016 - 12:04 AM

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We hit 40 signatures!

EspressoForHammy #75 Posted 18 November 2016 - 07:15 PM

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Sigifrid #76 Posted 29 November 2016 - 12:24 PM

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/Sign....and Bump

 

Old National park was great for low tiers...Hzero already covered most of what I have to say.

The players had just enough time to get to their optimum altitude before the sightings occurred, and the GT's were rather well balanced between sides, with a reasonably distributed AA arrangement (although that was pre-GT overhaul).


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PhoinexFire #77 Posted 20 December 2016 - 08:36 PM

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Thanks for bumping this, Sig!

pyantoryng #78 Posted 21 December 2016 - 12:47 PM

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View PostSigifrid, on 29 November 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

/Sign....and Bump

 

Old National park was great for low tiers...Hzero already covered most of what I have to say.

The players had just enough time to get to their optimum altitude before the sightings occurred, and the GT's were rather well balanced between sides, with a reasonably distributed AA arrangement (although that was pre-GT overhaul).

 

Did it matter when those 110Es with their SC500s would beeline to HQ, bomb it, and back to fight?

 

I wonder how it would hold up with how things works nowadays...



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PhoinexFire #79 Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:12 AM

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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #80 Posted 14 January 2017 - 02:53 PM

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View PostHZero, on 08 November 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

/signed

 

The old National Park map was good for incredible 15 v 15 furball dogfights.  

 

1) Because it was small and everyone started just moments from firing range, there was immediate engagement by everyone on the team.   

 

2) The low altitude canyon put a cap on the value of high altitude boom n zoom.   Passes took longer to recover from and thus had less overall impact on the battle.  The result was not a disadvantage for BnZ aircraft, but rather provided a natural balance for them.

 

3)  Because of the tight nature of the map, it was viable to have several aircraft escort GA aircraft and keep them safe while still being on call for air to air assistence.  This integrated the GA and aerial battles in a way that has not been present in any other map since then, except perhaps for the current low tier winter night map (do not recall the name of that one).

 

4)  No down time.  It was literally shooting to trying to maneuver to safety to shooting to calling for help to....unlike the current game, where 30 seconds or more can pass (easily) before anything happens.  With the new bot programming, it can be 2-3 minutes before another plane is even sighted, much less engaged.  BORING.

 

5) Because the matches are longer and filled with downtime, players are more easily frustrated if they do badly.    If you did badly on the old National Park, it was over in 3 minutes anyway, and you were back into another match, easy!  More opportunities = more happiness for players.

 

This is what made WoWp great early on - fast, electric, nonstop, pulse pounding matches.  We don't get that kind of match very much anymore.

It's just like El Haluf with mountains and grass and a different layout... well, maybe not

 

signed/


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