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Human players ignoring bots to focus on other human players


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Lexers615 #1 Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:45 AM

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Ok, I know I'll be trolled on for suggesting this, but now, with battles being like 2 human players and 8 bots vs 2 or 3 human players and 7 or 8 bots, I've noticed that many many many players will wait behind until bots spots everyone, to then ignore all bots to focus strictly on the human players of the opposing team. As always, they use Hp fat heavies or other Over Powered (OP) aircraft or such... Result is annoying for most. So, next update, could you dissociate the names and the aircraft of the enemy team, so that you don't know the pilots of the aircraft you are shooting at, and you have no way to tell what a specific player is flying?

mullyman #2 Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:52 AM

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Why don't you just target their humans?
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Lexers615 #3 Posted 13 August 2016 - 04:12 AM

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View Postmullyman, on 13 August 2016 - 03:52 AM, said:

Why don't you just target their humans?

 

Cause I play less than a hour a day, and I haven't built a specific gamestyle aimed at pissing the other players...

bearrick #4 Posted 13 August 2016 - 04:27 AM

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I don't know that name removal would necessarily do anything to prevent this.  It would only at most reduce the ability to distinguish for newer players.  All bots follow a fairly predictable pattern when they're being hit; going completely defensive, turning toward the nearest AA unit for their team and mixing in complex rolls and immelman/split-s maneuvers.

The more experienced players can just look for this behavior and use that to switch targets during the engagement.

I also don't get to play much per day, even per week.  I get your frustration.  But this is a game where information helps everyone equally.  If you see someone who is clearly a human in a plane you know can beat yours, use that knowledge to attempt to avoid them early on.  Stick in a group of mixed aircraft.

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MajorDodger #5 Posted 13 August 2016 - 04:32 AM

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Lexer, it not about pissing off other players it is about winning.  I know that when I am in the wait looking at the other team I always look to see who is my biggest threat.  The biggest threat is who anyone would go after bot or human.  If you know a pilot on the other team is really good why wouldn't you target him/her first.  This is a PvP game and yes it sometimes sux when you are the targeted person but that is the best way to win.

 

Just kill whomever, you feel is the biggest threat and kill them and then the next etc... until desired result is achieved.  No one is going to be pissed at you for doing your job as a pilot.  just my 2 cents.

 

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Snoticus #6 Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:19 AM

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View Postbearrick, on 12 August 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

 All bots follow a fairly predictable pattern when they're being hit; going completely defensive, turning toward the nearest AA unit for their team and mixing in complex rolls and immelman/split-s maneuvers.
 
 
is this why the bots drag planes my way, when im in the ga? they seem to think my tg is friendly aa lol

Edited by Snoticus, 13 August 2016 - 05:21 AM.

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Psicko23 #7 Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:31 AM

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I've used ga tailgunners to finish off wounded planes that have very little hit points before. They focus on getting the kill they mostly don't realize that I am taking them  the long way through my ga's tail gunner. It either kills them or distracts them enough for me to finish them off.

Snoticus #8 Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:36 AM

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that explains all the recent tg kills ive been getting while dropping coal to all the naughty people.
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dityboycom #9 Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:05 AM

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I knock em down as they show up, highest threat plane first, couldn't care less about humans or not.

GeorgePatton #10 Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:42 AM

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View PostLexers615, on 12 August 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

Ok, I know I'll be trolled on for suggesting this, but now, with battles being like 2 human players and 8 bots vs 2 or 3 human players and 7 or 8 bots, I've noticed that many many many players will wait behind until bots spots everyone, to then ignore all bots to focus strictly on the human players of the opposing team. As always, they use Hp fat heavies or other Over Powered (OP) aircraft or such... Result is annoying for most. So, next update, could you dissociate the names and the aircraft of the enemy team, so that you don't know the pilots of the aircraft you are shooting at, and you have no way to tell what a specific player is flying?

 

The players who have gotten good at the currently perceived 'optimal' way to play the game (heavy fighters, high altitude) don't really care if you're a human or a bot. They're going to shoot the guy that is sitting at the highest altitude (which means he has the highest energy and is thus the biggest threat) whether that's a bot or a human. 

 

If you take away the names from the planes, this won't change, and about 90% of the time the highest person on the opposing team is a human. There are also ways of grabbing stats off the server information that would render this a futile waste of development resources. Hryunomod would display a winning % for a human and a status ranking for a bot which would let people that want to target the humans anyway. It would also take away from the social aspect of the game because for this to be effective you would also have to remove the names of players from the battle list. Just one guy flying the F-86A? OK, I know who he is as soon as he's spotted. Not only would this take away from the 'MMO' aspect of the game, it would be a distinct departure from history where pilots elaborately decorated their aircraft so people WOULD recognize them. The shiny polished aluminum on many American fighters was not standard issue, these pilots deliberately made their aircraft easier to spot as a taunt to opponents. I personally like people to recognize me and try to shoot me down. It makes the game more exciting and breaks up the monotony of killing bots repeatedly.

 

Also, if a player's rating is below 50% I generally just select them as a locked target and press f2 to send my bots after them. I don't like to mess with newer/less skilled players so I let the bots do my dirty work. It's more fair for them to face 5 bots than a single human, right? (OK, that was definitely sarcasm, I don't really do that - it's late and I'm feeling snarky.)

 

 

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losttwo #11 Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:57 AM

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View PostLexers615, on 12 August 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

Ok, I know I'll be trolled on for suggesting this, but now, with battles being like 2 human players and 8 bots vs 2 or 3 human players and 7 or 8 bots, I've noticed that many many many players will wait behind until bots spots everyone, to then ignore all bots to focus strictly on the human players of the opposing team. As always, they use Hp fat heavies or other Over Powered (OP) aircraft or such... Result is annoying for most. So, next update, could you dissociate the names and the aircraft of the enemy team, so that you don't know the pilots of the aircraft you are shooting at, and you have no way to tell what a specific player is flying?

 

Well it seems George Patton stated everything that needs to be said with the exception of.

It sounds to me like the human enemy is using a good and viable tactic.

Perhaps if you adopt the same tactic your games will go a lot better.

 

Now, what I perceive from your post is that you are asking WG to change the game to accommodate your play style.

Sort of like asking the JV football coach to stop tackling the QB until after he throws the ball.

Instead of trying to change the things you can not ( nor can WG ) control.

It would be far better to adapt, overcome and improvise to over come the obstacles and change the way

you play the game.

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Therefore try flying differently.

Change things like:

  Do not be the first one in the battle

  Do not go alone

  Do not use a heavy as a bomber

 

DO WORK FROM HIGH ALTITUDE TO LOW.



Tophatfire #12 Posted 13 August 2016 - 11:02 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 13 August 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

The players who have gotten good at the currently perceived 'optimal' way to play the game (heavy fighters, high altitude) don't really care if you're a human or a bot. They're going to shoot the guy that is sitting at the highest altitude (which means he has the highest energy and is thus the biggest threat) whether that's a bot or a human. 

 

Low tier serial seal clubbers make a point of hunting the humans first.  The bots are so easy that they're not even worth worrying about, and the other human is the only unpredictable element.  

 

KIll the human, pick off the bots, almost automatic win.



losttwo #13 Posted 13 August 2016 - 11:16 AM

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View PostFadStatement, on 13 August 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

 

Low tier serial seal clubbers make a point of hunting the humans first.  The bots are so easy that they're not even worth worrying about, and the other human is the only unpredictable element.  

 

KIll the human, pick off the bots, almost automatic win.

 

Really, I will have to try that. I have been doing it wrong all this time.

Must remember to stop going after heavies by tier first and start going after humans first.



Lexers615 #14 Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:28 PM

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View Postbearrick, on 13 August 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

I don't know that name removal would necessarily do anything to prevent this. It would only at most reduce the ability to distinguish for newer players. All bots follow a fairly predictable pattern when they're being hit; going completely defensive, turning toward the nearest AA unit for their team and mixing in complex rolls and immelman/split-s maneuvers.

The more experienced players can just look for this behavior and use that to switch targets during the engagement.

I also don't get to play much per day, even per week. I get your frustration. But this is a game where information helps everyone equally. If you see someone who is clearly a human in a plane you know can beat yours, use that knowledge to attempt to avoid them early on. Stick in a group of mixed aircraft.

 

I do... When people typically do this, they lay behind, most likely holding ALT until they recognize a human in a group, then they go kill him, fall back to safety, and repeat...



Lexers615 #15 Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:33 PM

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I've read some of your other suggestions guys, but you seem to forget that the many unrealistic twists many players do (like flying a bomber ("heavy fighter") with an unrealistic fit that make it as manoeuvrable as a fighter) is why the player base for WoWp fell from 10k active players to less than 2k, with sometimes less than a hundred players active at a single time. What brought back few of us (myself included) was the introduction of the bots. Now, new twists like what I explained is what is again driving away newcomers and returners...

Bubba_Zanetti #16 Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:02 PM

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View PostLexers615, on 13 August 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

I've read some of your other suggestions guys, but you seem to forget that the many unrealistic twists many players do (like flying a bomber ("heavy fighter") with an unrealistic fit that make it as manoeuvrable as a fighter) is why the player base for WoWp fell from 10k active players to less than 2k, with sometimes less than a hundred players active at a single time. What brought back few of us (myself included) was the introduction of the bots. Now, new twists like what I explained is what is again driving away newcomers and returners...

 

I don't believe there was ever 10,000 active players from alpha, betas to live.  Maybe 3000 at peak.

 

The rest is lack of understanding game mechanics and an unwillingness to learn and adapt, choosing to complain and whine when facing adversity.  There's turn and burn, boom and zoom, and mixtures of both with altitude and terrain considerations.  Unrealistic twists=arcade plane game.  Adapt and utilize to your advantage.


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spanks2 #17 Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:46 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 13 August 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

I knock em down as they show up, highest threat plane first, couldn't care less about humans or not.

 

Right on!

Beside hunting down the highest rated player and/or most XP bot its best to work from top down...

Thanks for posting Lexers.

As you already know, not everyone is going to agree with you.

The forums are a good (not perfect) way for all of us to learn from each other..:great:


Edited by clodhoppr1, 13 August 2016 - 03:48 PM.


BrushWolf #18 Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:23 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 13 August 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:

I knock em down as they show up, highest threat plane first, couldn't care less about humans or not.

 

Humans are more dangerous than the bots, they are unpredictable and even the worst player may have a moment of brilliance. It also depends on who the human is, if it is a top pilot I want them back at the O club as fast as possible whether by sending the bots after them or the odd chance they make a mistake and give me a good shot.

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bearrick #19 Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:03 PM

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View PostSnoticus, on 13 August 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

is this why the bots drag planes my way, when im in the ga? they seem to think my tg is friendly aa lol

 

Possibly... 

It also could just be them seeking a friendly-to-them target to potentially help.  I don't know just how complex the behavior algorithm is, but I also know that it's not perfect - hence why they will sometimes lawn dart when being chased.  

 

But all the more reason to level up your attacker crews and get the special gunner perks.


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FreeFOXMIKE #20 Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:40 PM

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View PostLexers615, on 12 August 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

Ok, I know I'll be trolled on for suggesting this, but now, with battles being like 2 human players and 8 bots vs 2 or 3 human players and 7 or 8 bots, I've noticed that many many many players will wait behind until bots spots everyone, to then ignore all bots to focus strictly on the human players of the opposing team. As always, they use Hp fat heavies or other Over Powered (OP) aircraft or such... Result is annoying for most. So, next update, could you dissociate the names and the aircraft of the enemy team, so that you don't know the pilots of the aircraft you are shooting at, and you have no way to tell what a specific player is flying?

 

that's nothing just wait till you "fly" the EU server and notice the reverse they go after humans last the allow players to get as many   missions points then come back to the NA server talk about a land of confusion 

 

you get use to it that way thin come "home" and get nailed  lol 

 Now I do agree with prioritizing targets so it can also be that. :playing:


Edited by FreeFOXMIKE, 13 August 2016 - 07:43 PM.

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