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dityboycom #101 Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:42 PM

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View PostNoreaga, on 19 August 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

 

been meaning to ask you guys about that, how similar is CS:GO to the original ? wasted a lot of my uni days playing the original, was curious if i was going to have to learn a whole new game.

 

sorry for the derail.

 

The new one is very RNG based, you can no longer memorize map positioning, mouse placement etc to wipe clean PUB's. RNG might cause your round to not go in the middle of your sights, or cause a round to not hit someone on the other side of the wall/box now.

 

I played the old CS religiously, walked everywhere, never ran, and saw mostly head shots rarely having to reload. The new one you need all your ammo, and things don't happen the same every time you do it. Probably for the better; but, it made me lose all respect and interest in the game. Could also just be I haven't played in 14 years, so I was rusty.



dityboycom #102 Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:44 PM

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Not to mention they changed the equipment menu to something Call of Duty like, and it's hard to navigate to find what you need, if you can even still script your purchases at all.

Zapperguy #103 Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:49 PM

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View PostBandet, on 19 August 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

 

You don't need iron sights. Also, two of the assault rifles in the game have a rds or acog or whatever the you want to call it that functions the same way iron sights do in other games.

 

We laugh at the people who want cockpit view in WoWP.

 

Glad I'm here to amuse you. Good thing I'm a clown. I won't play this game without my 1st-person-only camera mod. 3rd person not only doesn't feel like flying to me, it feels like a cheat to be able to see all around your plane. Pilots didn't have that luxury and I don't want it either. So, have yourself a hearty guffaw on my behalf, no charge.

 



Bandet #104 Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:50 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 19 August 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

Not to mention they changed the equipment menu to something Call of Duty like, and it's hard to navigate to find what you need, if you can even still script your purchases at all.

 

You don't even have to use the menu, just use the hotkeys.

 

As for RNG, the first few shots of any gun will go to the dead center, and then it's more random to simulate recoil. Each gun has a spray pattern. Basically, the bullets will generally group in an area above the crosshair, depending on the gun's recoil, so you will aim lower than your target after you start shooting. The amount lower depends on range and the gun.


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dityboycom #105 Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:51 PM

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View PostZapperguy, on 19 August 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

 

Glad I'm here to amuse you. Good thing I'm a clown. I won't play this game without my 1st-person-only camera mod. 3rd person not only doesn't feel like flying to me, it feels like a cheat to be able to see all around your plane. Pilots didn't have that luxury and I don't want it either. So, have yourself a hearty guffaw on my behalf, no charge.

 

 

The games not a simulation, and while it's not amusing as Bandet thinks. It does explain why you are challenged on a regular basis, might as well turn off your HUD as well.

Bandet #106 Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:52 PM

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View PostZapperguy, on 19 August 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

 Pilots didn't have that luxury and I don't want it either. 

 

You aren't a pilot. You are some guy playing a video game. 

 

Also, real pilots do have that luxury, or will in the near future. That's one of the reasons we are spending so much money on 5th generation fighters. They have cameras all over the plane that lets you see through the planes fuselage with your helmet. Pretty badass stuff. It wouldn't be all that complex to have a computer actually render the plane the pilot is flying in in 3rd person in a 3d environment rendered from all the data fused together, and that is what they would see. I'd be surprised if they aren't already working on that.


Edited by Bandet, 19 August 2016 - 04:02 PM.

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EspressoForHammy #107 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:05 PM

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View PostBandet, on 19 August 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

If you want that go play DCS. The only game mode where you actually use cockpit in the other game is pretty much a desolate wasteland. Most people don't want it. If you are worried about iron sights CSGO probably isn't for you, battlefield is probably better choice. None of the maps in CS are big enough for you to need iron sights.

 

I use the cockpit all the time in Realistic Mode. It's a fantastic way to snipe a bomber with the 37mm of the P-63 while outside the effective range of his 50cal twin tails. It also a good way to iron sight a bomb kill on a tank using a 500lb unguided bomb with a half second fuse delay. It's also an amazing way to get better hits in a head-on at range to calculate the shell drop. It also just fun to use it when you are going from A to B to feel more realistic. About the only time a cockpit is NOT useful is in a dogfight with another fighter, and sometimes it's even useful then.


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Bandet #108 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:08 PM

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on 19 August 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

 

I use the cockpit all the time in Realistic Mode. It's a fantastic way to snipe a bomber with the 37mm of the P-63 while outside the effective range of his 50cal twin tails. It also a good way to iron sight a bomb kill on a tank using a 500lb unguided bomb with a half second fuse delay. It's also an amazing way to get better hits in a head-on at range to calculate the shell drop. It also just fun to use it when you are going from A to B to feel more realistic. About the only time a cockpit is NOT useful is in a dogfight with another fighter, and sometimes it's even useful then.

 

Are you talking about cockpit or virtual cockpit?


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EspressoForHammy #109 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:11 PM

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I wasn't aware that there were two cockpit modes. Everything in a video game is virtual... Not sure what you are asking.

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Bandet #110 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:13 PM

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on 19 August 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

I wasn't aware that there were two cockpit modes. Everything in a video game is virtual... Not sure what you are asking.

 

cockpit = in the cockpit with instruments and all the gizmos

virtual cockpit = 1st person, you only see hud

 

War thunder has both.

 

Virtual cockpit is pretty much the same as sniper mode in WoWP.

 

Basically, if you are using cockpit view in realistic, you are just hindering yourself. Virtual cockpit has all the advantages of cockpit view without the.. cockpit. Virtual cockpit is disabled in simulator mode.

 

Everyone playing realistic mode uses the same two views available in WoWP, 3rd person and virtual cockpit. Good players switch between the two based upon what they are doing in both games.


Edited by Bandet, 19 August 2016 - 04:15 PM.

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EspressoForHammy #111 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:20 PM

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Oh yeah I use all three in RM. But I was referring to cockpit, usually with zoom, which depending on the sight the aircraft has, can be virtual or partly virtual since it removes all the clutter of the cockpit off the screen.

 

Virtual cockpit still doesn't have the sights dead on I have noticed. In other words while you cannot see your own aircraft, you still have the effects of parallax. I use the cockpit most often to eliminate parallax and also to check some gauges that don't appear in the HUD.


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Bandet #112 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:24 PM

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There is no parallax in it. It's first person. It's the exact same position as the normal sight in the cockpit, they just disable the model so you don't see it. They don't move your camera to the front of the plane or anything. You probably have that setting turned on that compensates for bullet drop, and you just don't notice it happening normally as you have all those irrelevant instruments blocking your sight.

Edited by Bandet, 19 August 2016 - 04:27 PM.

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Bandet #113 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:30 PM

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The only really useful instrument in there is the RPM, and that's only if you want to play with your prop pitch and unless you have access to a BF-109 operators manual from 1942 and speak german, you probably won't be able to do it better than the computer does anyways.

 


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GeorgePatton #114 Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:51 PM

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View PostZ3M, on 18 August 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Haha.....tankers can't play this game?  LOL.  I have 50k games in WOT and play for a top 5 clan.  After only 3 months playing here, I feel I am doing pretty well. My friend Scoobstank is also a tanker and could very possibly be one of the best pilots here and we are still just LEARNING the game.  Ego much?

 

Tankers are more than welcome to play WoWP - in fact, I think it would be awesome if more did! Glad you feel you're doing well here! Claiming your friend could very possibly be 'one of the best pilots here' is very much over-the-top. I'm glad you're both confident (or if he's not, you have it for him!) but there's a WHOLE lot more that you both need to learn before you can make any claims like that. Do you have the potential to be one of the best? Maybe. It's also rather easy to get an inflated view of one's self in the current bot-dominated game. Have less than 6k battles? The bots on your team are going to be better than the bots on the guy across from you with 12k battles. You've got a MUCH higher chance of winning because of that unless the guy on the other team is actually one of the 'very best' in the game. Also, at the tiers you're most likely flying, you're probably seeing mostly bots which means many of the tactics you're developing will work against these entities (I refuse to call them artificial intelligence because they're simply not remotely intelligent...) but will fail miserably against a good player. This is not to be down on you at all, I'm simply pointing out that you need to play with the big boys before you claim to be one of the big boys (or claim that your friend is). You can get there, but you're not there yet.

 

View PostZ3M, on 18 August 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

You think I am throwing my ego out?  How?  I never said anything about win rate or stats, or even that 55% is "amazing".  I am not sure where you came up with that.  I do have a problem with the "tankers cant play" or their egos are too big.  As Rein pointed out, "claims that a 3rd person arcade plane game with very shooter-like controls is somehow more challenging to the masses".  He is right.  This assumption that "tankers" cant handle this game, is ridiculous.  If anything, tanks has a more difficult metaplay to learn. The implication that skill sets are different is also wrong.  Position, situational awareness, and knowing your weapon is the same across all games. I am still learning the game, 12 games in beta and just started playing this 3 months ago.  At a 1000 games, I do feel I am doing well and progressing.

 

Personally I did not find the meta in tanks to be hard to learn at all. Heavies go X direction, meds go field, stay under cover from arty, and make the other guy come around the corner to you. Skills are very different between the two games. In Tanks, there's a lot to do with avoiding being scouted, effective use of armor, use of cover, different play styles between heavies, meds, lights, TDs, and Arty, etc. In Warplanes, there is no cover (at least, none that you can remain behind...), there is no real armor, you're going to be spotted, and you can't stop.

 

In Warplanes, you need to have a basic understanding of physics in the sense of how it will affect your maneuvers and how to tighten up turn radii, etc. That is irrelevant in Tanks. You need to understand your gun range, opponent's gun range, rates of closure, effective attack vectoring, etc. Also irrelevant in Tanks. The games are both interesting, but very different. Doesn't mean people can't do well at both - I like to think I do well at both. (OK, my stats in Tanks stink but that's because I basically botted to get my first tier 10. I didn't actually bot, just ran up the middle all the time firing until I died. I got really impatient. I maintained a 65% win rate in Tanks until tier 8 when I got sick of being careful and playing well.)

 

View PostZ3M, on 18 August 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

Really?  Whats the play for a E 100 on Redshire? You have south spawn.  Enemy has 6 meds, 3 arty, 2 scouts, and 4 heavies.  You have on your team  4 meds, 4 tds, 2 scouts,3 arty and 2 heavies. Its a encounter battle. Explain to me the play of that tank on this map with this team comp and this game mode.  Please?  Now, in comparison we can discuss the play of a Heavy Fighter in tier 2 thru 10.  Get as high, zoom and boom, egress, repeat.  By all means explain to me why flying a Heavy Fighter is more difficult than driving a E 100 Heavy.  Thats not saying this game is not difficult, by no means. I like this game, but its not a overly complicated play style.

 

I'll ask a counter-question here. What's the play in the XF-90 on Asian Border? You have south spawn. Enemy has a flight of 2 Me.262 HG III (oh, notice that the plane is important here, not just type!), 3 light fighters, an F2H, and 3 IL-40Ps. Your team is you (XF-90), a rando with 40% win-rate in a Javelin, 4 light fighters, an IL-40P and 2 IL-40s.

 

You know that flight on the other side has a win rate of 80% when they fly together - they know their business. Horizontal boom and zoom, they have the rhythm down perfectly for their attacks and disengagements to ensure that they always have somebody with a shot lined up on their target. You know your Javelin is most likely going to go after one of the ILs and die to a bomb dropped by TeamTerrible... (Oh, yeah, he's going to be one of the IL pilots in this, just for giggles...) That leaves you high in a plane with 100 less HP than either of your opponents, less firepower, less maneuverability, and like 80 km/hr more airspeed. Oh, you also have a statistical altitude disadvantage, which I'll give you this - is not very significant when you're playing horizontal BnZ.

 

Do you go high and play their game? Do you go medium altitude and try to wipe out their bots in the LFs? Go join the Javelin and get bombed by TT? How are you going to interrupt the HFs rhythm (the right play) and bring down at least one of them? You know this battle is most likely a loss, but do as much as you can while you go out, right? For the record, I've won battles like this before - it's just very difficult and requires a very keen sense of when to make an attack and when to disengage. Also a knowledge of how to disengage and where to disengage to in order to avoid a rapid counterattack. 

 

Anybody can spit out the 'climb high, go fast, shoot stuff' mantra of the heavy fighter, but to actually be good at it is another thing entirely.

 

Just like I can tell you to go left on Redshire in the E-100 - that does me no good if I don't know how to manage my armor (angle the front at about 30 degrees from perpendicular to your opponent to maximize your frontal armor while not overexposing your side armor, keep that turret angled about another 30 degrees off of that), use the rocks to avoid artillery fire, and which targets to hit to do the most for my team (don't shoot the lights that are nowhere near your artillery and only have 300 HP when you've got a shot on a JgPz E-100 who's showing you his side with 2100 HP...). Both games are complicated, but they're complicated in different ways, and that's OK - it's what makes them different games, really.

 

 

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Noreaga #115 Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:00 PM

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View PostBandet, on 19 August 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

The only really useful instrument in there is the RPM, and that's only if you want to play with your prop pitch and unless you have access to a BF-109 operators manual from 1942 and speak german, you probably won't be able to do it better than the computer does anyways.

 

here is one take no responsibility for the translation:

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/pdf/bf109g2_english.zip

 

Unless you also have to worry about overheat and all that stuff, the advantages of complete engine control will be slim.


Edited by Noreaga, 19 August 2016 - 05:02 PM.

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dityboycom #116 Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:21 PM

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Aww I missed the tanks guy.

 

Tanks is definitely a lot more involved than planes. Planes is basic mechanics which once understood you will excel at any tier in nearly any plane if you understand what your plane strengths are.

 

Tanks you have to know maps, placement, guns, armor, angles, timing, patience (patience is a big one), and you have to think about the stuff you can't see assuming they can see you. A lot more to think about, and a lot more for the mind to do in a given game.

 

I get why tankers don't enjoy planes, planes is fast. When you don't know what you're doing in planes you die immediately, you don't get 1 or 2 shots of damage in and then die. Just pfft, dead.

 

In tanks when you suck, you have two options, sit back and observe, get some snips in, or rush in and discover advantageous positions through attrition.



Noreaga #117 Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:33 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 19 August 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Aww I missed the tanks guy.

 

Tanks is definitely a lot more involved than planes. Planes is basic mechanics which once understood you will excel at any tier in nearly any plane if you understand what your plane strengths are.

 

Tanks you have to know maps, placement, guns, armor, angles, timing, patience (patience is a big one), and you have to think about the stuff you can't see assuming they can see you. A lot more to think about, and a lot more for the mind to do in a given game.

 

I get why tankers don't enjoy planes, planes is fast. When you don't know what you're doing in planes you die immediately, you don't get 1 or 2 shots of damage in and then die. Just pfft, dead.

 

In tanks when you suck, you have two options, sit back and observe, get some snips in, or rush in and discover advantageous positions through attrition.

 

pretty much comparing the gameplay is like comparing apples and oranges. they are fruits that is about it.

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GeorgePatton #118 Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:42 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 19 August 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Planes is basic mechanics which once understood you will excel at any tier in nearly any plane if you understand what your plane strengths are.

 

I think this goes back to the original development vision for the game "Easy to learn, hard to master". Pity we lost all of those developers! The mechanics are indeed easy to learn - the hard part is mastering the use of all of the mechanics, and that's what sets the best players from the rest. There is no 'middle ground' in this game, which I think is a big part of the issue that the game faces. Tanks, you can be a baddie, average, good, or pro. Here, you're either bad, good, or pro. That lack of 'average' is due to the very steep learning curve for people not accustomed to maneuvering in a three dimensional environment and the physics involved in planning those maneuvers let alone setting the maneuvers up to combat an opponent.

 

 

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Bandet #119 Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:47 PM

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View PostNoreaga, on 19 August 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

here is one take no responsibility for the translation:

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/pdf/bf109g2_english.zip

 

Unless you also have to worry about overheat and all that stuff, the advantages of complete engine control will be slim.

 

If you go over max rpm your engine will seize and you become a glider.

 

I only really use it for an airbrake, or to reduce drag when gliding. If you do it right in certain planes you can open up your radiator and set your pitch to full, and you can dive nearly vertically straight down without tearing your wings off. Conversely, closing your radiators and setting your prop pitch to min does the opposite and lets you glide further... helpful when you get a tiny dink that just happens to hit your radiator and your engine stops so you are gliding 10km back to base.


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Bandet #120 Posted 19 August 2016 - 06:04 PM

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Any of assessments of this game I make  is assuming the game in it's "pure" form of the past, or what it could be in the future... you know, before all the good players quit.

 

Right now as it stands, this game is absolute rubbish, and playing tanks is surely more challenging than killing bots... 

 

So I can completely see why a tanker who just joined would probably think this game is easier.


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