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Is using terrain pathing issues to crash bots an exploit?


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Nvfx #41 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:51 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 11 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Don't forget you can also get too high with the bots and regardless of what they're flying they will catch you. Your plane will not have enough available energy including boost to get any higher, and they will continue to chase you up to 5500 meters in their J7W3.

 

How often do you see that?

GeorgePatton #42 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:54 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

 

Why you so mad home dad?? Take a chill pill brah. I just read your first post, nothing else. Reading all the comments would be an exploit and I don't want to exploit the forum on your very own post. I just opened a dictionary here in the kitchen and typed in. Does it matches with the Google definition? Google for me please.

 

And since you touched the cancer topic, do you think doctors are exploiting to find a cure for cancer? They better be, right?

 

When you stream, do you exploit?

 

Is being in the dracs considered an exploit? I don't think so but maybe it is. Need clarification. Sorry, don't know how to google... :child:

 

 

Duplicating information already contained in a thread can be considered a rule violation - technically. Might want to read through a thread before you randomly throw out a wall of text that's copied from somewhere else - chances are it's already been tossed into the mix. Now, if you have extra information to add to that it's OK as long as you acknowledge that it's already been posted and that you agree but want to add on.

 

View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

The DoD prevents me from providing PII data to internet friends. Take it as I am OLD enough to exploit.

 

An age is not PII - the forums would not allow you to enter a DoB if it was because it's against WG policy for players to enter PII. Also, do you know where to find the 'Navy Seal Copy/Pasta'? LOL

 

 

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dityboycom #43 Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:08 PM

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View PostEnvioux, on 11 August 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

How often do you see that?

 

Depends on how often I start an engagement at the ceiling and I'm the flag bearer.

dityboycom #44 Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:10 PM

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View PostEnvioux, on 11 August 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

 

Sure but can you say that for the general public?

 

Why the HF stall is so broken is because everyone can do it as long as they fly straight up.

Yes this is an exploit but it still require some level of skill or knowing how to dodge.

 

Not every map is suspect able to mountainous terrains.

There are maps with open ends and no where to hide. 

Bot stalling exploit works on every map.

 

 

The general public is so awful why do we even care to discuss them? If anyone paid attention to the tutorial they would be better than the general public.

 

Plus you don't need a mountain, just need a hill that you can hide behind for bots to crash. Plus when the bots do their B line for you even though you haven't been spotted since you were on the other map, they run into stuff all the time. Which is also hilarious, so if you stay low wile you hide from bots you will start seeing them lawn dart as they head your direction



Steel_bomber_ #45 Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:11 PM

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@ Dusty.

 

You forgot to mention:

 

11.  did NOT give the pilot skill points


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dityboycom #46 Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:14 PM

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Lesbihonest here, we're arguing over how people kill bots. Who really cares?

 

Last night I played a game in my XF-90, I killed all their bots and players and we had 10 guys remaining, all bots and they had two GAA. my 7 bots went to the one computer GAA and I went to the other computer GAA. All 7 of my bots lawn darted trying to kill the CPU GAA. Almost won by supremacy but I made it back to ther other side of the map in time to take two passes on the CPU GAA and kill him.

 

The bots are lawn darting with or without our help, and manipulating them in anyway is technically an exploit, because they're not AI, they are pre programed algorithms designed to appear as AI.



DustyCH #47 Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:34 PM

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Dear Agno,

 

The other day I was at the Dracs TS, you seemed like a reasonable guy. But then you posted a link on the TS to a very disturbing picture...  I understand that was a joke (everyone laughed) but to be honest, since then I wonder about your discernment and age. Seems like our question on each others mindset is mutual.

 

Sorry if you feel I am trolling your post. I am not. I am a forum newbie, and made only 105 posts total. I intended to discuss, per your request, your main point. On the other hand, you took a tangent on the subject, and then asked about my age twice. Are you sure you are not trolling your own post? lets stay in the subject. I will do the same, last time on this post.

 

So here we go: I understand you are upset that bots and humans crash when dealing with terrain. This is not my fault. Bots also stall, ain't my fault either.

 

As you know, the programmers created maps with elaborated terrain features. This was done intentionally, and to provide a resource for low flying, maneuverable aircraft. I explained on TS how the RU players fly. If you are flying a low aircraft, you should use the terrain features to your own (team) advantage. 

 

In fact, you should use every possible available resource to your advantage. Sorry, but I can't get around the idea you disagree with that. Not using the terrain on a low flying aircraft is like not using boost on a heavy.

 

My skill (or lack of) in this game should not have a relationship to your own enjoyment of the game. I play the game because it is fun to me. Simple as that. 

 

Back in the day, when I was flying heavies, I was criticized, yelled, insulted... and I remember talking to some of the top players here something along those lines: "when I start flying Japanese planes, people will complain the exact same way... and their response was: they will never complain, and you will never fly those planes.."

 

Then I was challenged by another good player to fly Japanese planes. and turned out I did somewhat well on them, and now I only want to fly them. This is the most fun line in the game in my very honest opinion. This was probably the best thing that happened on the game for me - thank you Espress!

 

Let me give you a good example on how fun it is: You are competing against another human player... the guy is on your six, flying low, banking right, left, shooting you down, then you adjust your turn and fly through a tunnel, or next to a feature. The player is forced to break away or he will crash. U turn around and get on his six, and he is dead after a shot or two. Now tell me, isn't this a lot more fun than just keep stalling bots? or boom and zoom on humans?

 

And here we are. A whole post, on the subject, on how unfair it is to use terrain. I admit that Gang was right about the game, but unfortunately wrong about the player base complaints. Well, nothing he can do about that. Players will complain no matter what. They complain when people fly good, fly bad, stop flying, or fly too much... Love the internet.

 

Good luck and happy hunting.



losttwo #48 Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:52 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

Dear Agno,

 

The other day I was at the Dracs TS, you seemed like a reasonable guy. But then you posted a link on the TS to a very disturbing picture...  I understand that was a joke (everyone laughed) but to be honest, since then I wonder about your discernment and age. Seems like our question on each others mindset is mutual.

 

Sorry if you feel I am trolling your post. I am not. I am a forum newbie, and made only 105 posts total. I intended to discuss, per your request, your main point. On the other hand, you took a tangent on the subject, and then asked about my age twice. Are you sure you are not trolling your own post? lets stay in the subject. I will do the same, last time on this post.

 

So here we go: I understand you are upset that bots and humans crash when dealing with terrain. This is not my fault. Bots also stall, ain't my fault either.

 

As you know, the programmers created maps with elaborated terrain features. This was done intentionally, and to provide a resource for low flying, maneuverable aircraft. I explained on TS how the RU players fly. If you are flying a low aircraft, you should use the terrain features to your own (team) advantage. 

 

In fact, you should use every possible available resource to your advantage. Sorry, but I can't get around the idea you disagree with that. Not using the terrain on a low flying aircraft is like not using boost on a heavy.

 

My skill (or lack of) in this game should not have a relationship to your own enjoyment of the game. I play the game because it is fun to me. Simple as that. 

 

Back in the day, when I was flying heavies, I was criticized, yelled, insulted... and I remember talking to some of the top players here something along those lines: "when I start flying Japanese planes, people will complain the exact same way... and their response was: they will never complain, and you will never fly those planes.."

 

Then I was challenged by another good player to fly Japanese planes. and turned out I did somewhat well on them, and now I only want to fly them. This is the most fun line in the game in my very honest opinion. This was probably the best thing that happened on the game for me - thank you Espress!

 

Let me give you a good example on how fun it is: You are competing against another human player... the guy is on your six, flying low, banking right, left, shooting you down, then you adjust your turn and fly through a tunnel, or next to a feature. The player is forced to break away or he will crash. U turn around and get on his six, and he is dead after a shot or two. Now tell me, isn't this a lot more fun than just keep stalling bots? or boom and zoom on humans?

 

And here we are. A whole post, on the subject, on how unfair it is to use terrain. I admit that Gang was right about the game, but unfortunately wrong about the player base complaints. Well, nothing he can do about that. Players will complain no matter what. They complain when people fly good, fly bad, stop flying, or fly too much... Love the internet.

 

Good luck and happy hunting.

 

Deserves a +1

For mentioning Hammy, another +1

For making it sound like he agrees with me +1



losttwo #49 Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:55 PM

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Here is a question:

How long does an " exploit " persist by a game designer ?

 

It has been how many patches now that people have complained about said exploits.

 

Must not be an exploit.



TeamTerrible #50 Posted 11 August 2016 - 06:13 PM

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On a plus side there are plenty of games out there that we all have seen a flaw in the game that can either make or break you

 

Take your classic wrestling games as an example....get close enough to someone after they fall and you can repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat up until you get bored and pin the guy

 

Play with a friend and they hate you for it, stop doing it and they beat you and now you may be upset that you didn't stick with the flaw expose plan

 

This game is no different in such cases

 

Next thing you know everyone wants to run the flaw expose' and it becomes who is better at it or in the Warplanes design who's bots aren't set to fail you mode

 

Others look into how to counter-bug the problem which thankfully going low will result in bots crashing like spreading wildfire

 

 

The game is a far cry from its glory days when they who knew the most about their aircraft was the deciding factor

 

Maybe change the name to World of Exposing Flawedplanes

 

 

 

 


 

 

         


Bandet #51 Posted 11 August 2016 - 06:24 PM

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What are the bots gonna do? Report you?

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GeorgePatton #52 Posted 11 August 2016 - 06:25 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

Let me give you a good example on how fun it is: You are competing against another human player... the guy is on your six, flying low, banking right, left, shooting you down, then you adjust your turn and fly through a tunnel, or next to a feature. The player is forced to break away or he will crash. U turn around and get on his six, and he is dead after a shot or two. Now tell me, isn't this a lot more fun than just keep stalling bots? or boom and zoom on humans?

 

If you're competing against a good player you're going to lose 100% of the time assuming neither plane starts with an extreme HP disadvantage. Why? That good player is going to use the superior speed of the non-Japanese plane to 'boom and zoom' you. He's (or she's) not going to follow you around trying to shoot you down, they're just going to dive, take some shots on you to 400m and then climb again. You don't get shots on them. Trust me, I experimented with this extensively with Herr_Oberst_Nu. It never worked out for the non-BnZ plane. Japanese planes can't hold together, so a couple passes should be enough to bring you down. 

 

 

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dityboycom #53 Posted 11 August 2016 - 06:30 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 11 August 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

 

If you're competing against a good player you're going to lose 100% of the time assuming neither plane starts with an extreme HP disadvantage. Why? That good player is going to use the superior speed of the non-Japanese plane to 'boom and zoom' you. He's (or she's) not going to follow you around trying to shoot you down, they're just going to dive, take some shots on you to 400m and then climb again. You don't get shots on them. Trust me, I experimented with this extensively with Herr_Oberst_Nu. It never worked out for the non-BnZ plane. Japanese planes can't hold together, so a couple passes should be enough to bring you down. 

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

Meh, agree to disagree. Though you have a point, you don't. Good players vs good players a lot of stuff that shouldn't work, works, and stuff that should doesn't. Plus in a supremacy time crunch some times you don't have time to bnz.

DustyCH #54 Posted 11 August 2016 - 07:00 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 11 August 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

If you're competing against a good player you're going to lose 100% of the time assuming neither plane starts with an extreme HP disadvantage. Why? That good player is going to use the superior speed of the non-Japanese plane to 'boom and zoom' you. He's (or she's) not going to follow you around trying to shoot you down, they're just going to dive, take some shots on you to 400m and then climb again. You don't get shots on them. Trust me, I experimented with this extensively with Herr_Oberst_Nu. It never worked out for the non-BnZ plane. Japanese planes can't hold together, so a couple passes should be enough to bring you down. 

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

Hey George, would you consider re-testing this with me?

 

You can bring any airplane of your choice of the agreed Tier (you may want to try a BnZ first) and we then fly 9 matches. You pick the first map and we start at tier 2; I will pick the second map and we move to tier 3, and so on. I would like to test all tiers. My plane selection will include low flying Japanese airplanes and Russian fighters only.

 

For your time, and as an incentive, I will send you 500 gold for helping me with this test. This "gift" will occur regardless of the outcome of these matches.

 

We can then post the videos and the results here in the forum so other players can discuss.

 

If you are interested, please let me know.

 

Regards,

Dusty.



TeamTerrible #55 Posted 11 August 2016 - 07:17 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

 

Hey George, would you consider re-testing this with me?

 

You can bring any airplane of your choice of the agreed Tier (you may want to try a BnZ first) and we then fly 9 matches. You pick the first map and we start at tier 2; I will pick the second map and we move to tier 3, and so on. I would like to test all tiers. My plane selection will include low flying Japanese airplanes and Russian fighters only.

 

For your time, and as an incentive, I will send you 500 gold for helping me with this test. This "gift" will occur regardless of the outcome of these matches.

 

We can then post the videos and the results here in the forum so other players can discuss.

 

If you are interested, please let me know.

 

Regards,

Dusty.

 

 

I'll do it for a box of popcorn!!!!

 

Running short for some reason ...................:popcorn:

 

 


 

 

         


DustyCH #56 Posted 11 August 2016 - 07:31 PM

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View PostTeamTerrible, on 11 August 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

 

 

I'll do it for a box of popcorn!!!!

 

Running short for some reason ...................:popcorn:

 

 

 

If George doesn't want to do it, sure thing TT, let's do it. I think it will be a good test. 

 

Let's give george a chance to respond first though.

 

 



TeamTerrible #57 Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:31 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

 

If George doesn't want to do it, sure thing TT, let's do it. I think it will be a good test. 

 

Let's give george a chance to respond first though.

 

 

 

Agreed!!!

 

 


 

 

         


GeorgePatton #58 Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:35 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

 

Hey George, would you consider re-testing this with me?

 

You can bring any airplane of your choice of the agreed Tier (you may want to try a BnZ first) and we then fly 9 matches. You pick the first map and we start at tier 2; I will pick the second map and we move to tier 3, and so on. I would like to test all tiers. My plane selection will include low flying Japanese airplanes and Russian fighters only.

 

For your time, and as an incentive, I will send you 500 gold for helping me with this test. This "gift" will occur regardless of the outcome of these matches.

 

We can then post the videos and the results here in the forum so other players can discuss.

 

If you are interested, please let me know.

 

Regards,

Dusty.

 

Sounds like a fun time! I'll do it for free though! :)

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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GeorgePatton #59 Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:37 PM

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I'm free today any time after 9pm EST (unless there are storms that come into the area - my house isn't grounded so I have to unplug all my electronics in case of a power surge - I've already lost 3 computers to that lol) In the event of this not working out tonight, I can reschedule pretty much any time for the next 3 weeks. Let me know what works best for you!

 

 

Cheers!

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obamaphone #60 Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:43 PM

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 Exploit? Complete rubbish, if this were the case you could literally consider every tactical advantage you take over an enemy bot an exploit. IMO if you are not using the terrain to your advantage when it's available to avoid BNZ tactics, make bots/people crash, dodge bullets then you are just selectively choosing your advantage opportunity's. Always seems these things become an issue when some of the best players are doing them. Nobody has said anything to me about using the terrain for defense except to do so to improve my game and i have been doing it since i started.




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