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Is using terrain pathing issues to crash bots an exploit?


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dityboycom #21 Posted 11 August 2016 - 01:33 PM

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I don't hate on it,  TBH it's no different than anything else people have done in this game over the years to win. I find it remotely comical, that you get all your bots up high a J7W3 grabs a handful and takes them to the deck. You kill all his bots while your unattended too with the predictable machines, but his flight mate has spent the game grabbing any remaining bots and bringing them to the J7W3. 

 

The game goes from 11 v 3 (these two plus a gaa) to 2 v 1 those two v me.  Ultimately winning by supremacy as they continue to hug the mountain the whole game. I found it as amusing as killing gaa, in the future I'll probably just return to hangar. 



dityboycom #22 Posted 11 August 2016 - 01:37 PM

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I'm happy to hear people still care about winning, but man do they come up with some boring methods. I have no quarrel if you're in a crapsituation and trapped down low, but doing that every game and having a plan for grouping bots with your buddy, that's whacko. 

 

I'm more happy in the sentiment I have always shared with this game it's about fun, and if it won't be fun drawing the game out for a win return to hangar so you can get back to enjoying yourself. My same lack of reluctance to lawn dart and lose a game I could probably win has always been a hot topic around here, so one could argue the same as I do vs the bot farming. 



losttwo #23 Posted 11 August 2016 - 01:38 PM

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View PostGouIdy, on 11 August 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

So thanks to losttwo we have gone from a discussion about abusing crappy bot programming to an argument on the meaning of the word exploit.

 

  They knew they could not win the argument based on bot programming and WG's highly educated programmers.

Nor the 54 million dollar purchase of Big World engine and that they still can;t figure out how to use it properly.

 

So why not attack the " exploit " instead.   roflmao



Porkins_Jr #24 Posted 11 August 2016 - 01:56 PM

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LIke dity said you gotta have fun. What good is an 80% winrate if you aren't enjoying yourself?

 

If the game isn't fun for me, I will be out of here. As long as it's still fun, here I am.



RedSpartacus #25 Posted 11 August 2016 - 02:14 PM

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View PostPorkins_Jr, on 11 August 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:


 

If the game isn't fun for me, I will be out of here. As long as it's still fun, here I am.

 

This forum is full of wisdom.
  RUN WITH THE PACK

DustyCH #26 Posted 11 August 2016 - 02:38 PM

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I think we need some clarification: 

 

exploit - verb
1. make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).

 

noun
1. a bold or daring feat.
2. a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes such as installing malware.
 

So, for the verb definition, flying low with a high maneuverable low flying aircraft is absolutely an exploit. AND so it is flying a heavy at high altitudes, or bring bombs while flying a GA, or to be in a flight, or premium ammo, crew training, equipment and consumables, and anything else the game offers. Using flaps to turn and engine boost to accelerate is an exploit by definition.

 

For the noum definition (2), I am not aware anyone using a software or mod that would give an advantage over the other team. Hryonomod gives you data on the opponent so you can make better decisions but that's as far as it goes.

 

Next time you see someone flying low and causing the bots and humans to crash, or flying high and stalling the humans and bots, you are only entitled to complain if (and only if) you fit in the following:

 

1- flying a heavy always low

2- never use boost (disable from your controls)

3- don't use any equipment or consumable (absolutely not)

4- not in a flight (never!!!)

5- regular ammo only (or no ammo!)

6- no upgrades on your airplane (absolutely not. this is fraud upon!)

7- not in a "good" clan where you received training or practiced with your internet friends (not that this one really matters but...) 

8- flying a fighter or multi role very high (please...)

9- no evade when someone is firing at you. (why should you? That's clear an exploit!)

10- disable leading compensation (this is very important - can you do it?)

 

If all of the above fits your flying style, then you have a point. Please file a complain. Hey Lexinton Museum, would you agree that all of us exploit (verb) in the game

 

P.S. There was one clan that used to organize an event where everyone starts with the same plane and on the same team in the training room, and they put some high tier bots on the other team. The objective is to shoot down your own team while the bots shoot you down too. If anyone is still doing this, please let me know. Its fun :)



Agnotology #27 Posted 11 August 2016 - 02:45 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

I think we need some clarification: 

 

exploit - verb
1. make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).

 

noun
1. a bold or daring feat.
2. a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes such as installing malware.
 

So, for the verb definition, flying low with a high maneuverable low flying aircraft is absolutely an exploit. AND so it is flying a heavy at high altitudes, or bring bombs while flying a GA, or to be in a flight, or premium ammo, crew training, equipment and consumables, and anything else the game offers. Using flaps to turn and engine boost to accelerate is an exploit by definition.

 

For the noum definition (2), I am not aware anyone using a software or mod that would give an advantage over the other team. Hryonomod gives you data on the opponent so you can make better decisions but that's as far as it goes.

 

Next time you see someone flying low and causing the bots and humans to crash, or flying high and stalling the humans and bots, you are only entitled to complain if (and only if) you fit in the following:

 

1- flying a heavy always low

2- never use boost (disable from your controls)

3- don't use any equipment or consumable (absolutely not)

4- not in a flight (never!!!)

5- regular ammo only (or no ammo!)

6- no upgrades on your airplane (absolutely not. this is fraud upon!)

7- not in a "good" clan where you received training or practiced with your internet friends (not that this one really matters but...) 

8- flying a fighter or multi role very high (please...)

9- no evade when someone is firing at you. (why should you? That's clear an exploit!)

10- disable leading compensation (this is very important - can you do it?)

 

If all of the above fits your flying style, then you have a point. Please file a complain. Hey Lexinton Museum, would you agree that all of us exploit (verb) in the game

 

P.S. There was one clan that used to organize an event where everyone starts with the same plane and on the same team in the training room, and they put some high tier bots on the other team. The objective is to shoot down your own team while the bots shoot you down too. If anyone is still doing this, please let me know. Its fun :)

 

We've been over the dissection of definition of what an exploit is. Lost literally pasted the same thing. If you need google for a definition of a computer term, given you claimed to be a programmer, I question your ability to program.

 

The remainder of your argument is literally cancer. It makes me question your ability to reason.



DustyCH #28 Posted 11 August 2016 - 03:00 PM

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View PostAgnotology, on 11 August 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

 

We've been over the dissection of definition of what an exploit is. Lost literally pasted the same thing. If you need google for a definition of a computer term, given you claimed to be a programmer, I question your ability to program.

 

The remainder of your argument is literally cancer. It makes me question your ability to reason.

 

Why you so mad home dad?? Take a chill pill brah. I just read your first post, nothing else. Reading all the comments would be an exploit and I don't want to exploit the forum on your very own post. I just opened a dictionary here in the kitchen and typed in. Does it matches with the Google definition? Google for me please.

 

And since you touched the cancer topic, do you think doctors are exploiting to find a cure for cancer? They better be, right?

 

When you stream, do you exploit?

 

Is being in the dracs considered an exploit? I don't think so but maybe it is. Need clarification. Sorry, don't know how to google... :child:

 



Agnotology #29 Posted 11 August 2016 - 03:04 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

 

Why you so mad home dad?? Take a chill pill brah. I just read your first post, nothing else. Reading all the comments would be an exploit and I don't want to exploit the forum on your very own post. I just opened a dictionary here in the kitchen and typed in. Does it matches with the Google definition? Google for me please. So you aren't a programmer then? 

 

And since you touched the cancer topic, do you think doctors are exploiting to find a cure for cancer? They better be, right? Cancer, as in something that needs to be excised to benefit the whole.

 

When you stream, do you exploit?

 

Is being in the dracs considered an exploit? I don't think so but maybe it is. Need clarification. Sorry, don't know how to google... :child:

 

 

Precisely how old are you? 


Edited by Agnotology, 11 August 2016 - 03:07 PM.


DustyCH #30 Posted 11 August 2016 - 03:06 PM

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View PostAgnotology, on 11 August 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

 

Precisely how old are you? 

 

The DoD prevents me from providing PII data to internet friends. Take it as I am OLD enough to exploit.

Edited by DustyCH, 11 August 2016 - 03:08 PM.


Agnotology #31 Posted 11 August 2016 - 03:08 PM

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View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

Old enough to exploit.

View PostDustyCH, on 11 August 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

The DoD prevents me from providing PII data to internet friends. Take it as I am OLD enough to exploit.

 

No, seriously, give me a number. How old are you? 22? 24? You can't argue a point, so you resort to trolling and derailing. Your year of birth is not personally identifiable information. 

 

Just trying to get a handle on your mindset, friend.

 

I'll take it you have nothing to contribute then besides fail trolling. At least lost is funny about it.


Edited by Agnotology, 11 August 2016 - 03:31 PM.


Porkins_Jr #32 Posted 11 August 2016 - 03:43 PM

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View PostAgnotology, on 11 August 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

 

No, seriously, give me a number. How old are you? 22? 24? You can't argue a point, so you resort to trolling and derailing. Your year of birth is not personally identifiable information. 

 

Just trying to get a handle on your mindset, friend.

 

I'll take it you have nothing to contribute then besides fail trolling. At least lost is funny about it.

 

Careful, he also knows how to spam the report button.

Nvfx #33 Posted 11 August 2016 - 03:54 PM

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1. Making the bots crash doesn't generate exp because you are not credit for the kill

2. The process of making the bots crash also requires you to spend your own HP as you're getting shot at (however little) even if you go very low.

3. Flying straight up is easier than looking at your enemy's movements and then decide what awkward flight path would cause the enemy to crash.

4. It requires the other team to have no humans to execute this properly without dying; where as in a heavy's position it means that as long as the other team doesn't have heavies. 

 

So yes, it's an exploit, but it requires more effort, and requires certain situations (such as your team dying out and you're the only TNB plane left on the team).

Example: I am in a Tier X, yak30 vs 3* Tier 9 (one of them is human). It literally took me 5 minutes to turn and burn their energy out before I can actually follow up on a kill, and only 1 of 2 bots crashed.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by Envioux, 11 August 2016 - 04:16 PM.


Carronade32 #34 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:05 PM

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But think about it.  If it is an exploit that should be eliminated then that would be half of the videos P. Jr. posts and put a huge dent in the number of multi paragraph posts lost makes.  

 

#forumlivesmatter


 
 
 
 

dityboycom #35 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:21 PM

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View PostEnvioux, on 11 August 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

1. Making the bots crash doesn't generate exp because you are not credit for the kill

2. The process of making the bots crash also requires you to spend your own HP as you're getting shot at (however little) even if you go very low.

3. Flying straight up is easier than looking at your enemy's movements and then decide what awkward flight path would cause the enemy to crash.

4. It requires the other team to have no humans to execute this properly without dying; where as in a heavy's position it means that as long as the other team doesn't have heavies. 

 

So yes, it's an exploit, but it requires more effort, and requires certain situations (such as your team dying out and you're the only TNB plane left on the team).

Example: I am in a Tier X, yak30 vs 3* Tier 9 (one of them is human). It literally took me 5 minutes to turn and burn their energy out before I can actually follow up on a kill, and only 1 of 2 bots crashed.

 

Spoiler

 

 

It's really not that involved, and if you get guns on target you will get an assist or a kill if it's immediately after guns on target.

 

I would love to believe it was this complicated but it's not. It also doesn't require everyone to be dead on the toher team, just requires you in a more dominant maneuverable plane then they are in and keeping an eye on them while you do your thang.



Nvfx #36 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:31 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 11 August 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

 

It's really not that involved, and if you get guns on target you will get an assist or a kill if it's immediately after guns on target.

 

I would love to believe it was this complicated but it's not. It also doesn't require everyone to be dead on the toher team, just requires you in a more dominant maneuverable plane then they are in and keeping an eye on them while you do your thang.

 

The part of "keeping an eye on them" takes a heck lot more effort than just fly upwards in a line knowing they don't catch you. Difference is that you make one or two mistake and you're dead. It certainly ain't that complicated but it's not as easy as you're making it out to be.

Edited by Envioux, 11 August 2016 - 04:36 PM.


dityboycom #37 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:37 PM

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View PostEnvioux, on 11 August 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

 

The part of "keeping an eye on them" takes a heck lot more effort than just fly upwards in a line knowing they don't catch you. Difference is that you make one or two mistake and you're dead. It certainly ain't that complicated but it's not as easy as you're making it out to be.

 

It's pretty easy, especially to plays like Dusty, you or I.

Tophatfire #38 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:37 PM

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View PostEnvioux, on 11 August 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

You're on the verge of dying and dodging. In a HF you just fly up and stall things.

 

You have something of a point there and I could almost follow this line of reasoning, but the truth is it doesn't take much risk or skill to circle the pillars on Plateau while the bots just sequentially derp into the terrain.  There's really no needle-threading NOE flying needed and they're both pretty much exploiting flaws.

 

Thing of it is though, these have persisted so long now that maybe looking at these as exploits at this point is misguided.  A more realistic if perhaps sadder way of looking at is that the game just permanently changed to be stupid now.



dityboycom #39 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:39 PM

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Don't forget you can also get too high with the bots and regardless of what they're flying they will catch you. Your plane will not have enough available energy including boost to get any higher, and they will continue to chase you up to 5500 meters in their J7W3.

Nvfx #40 Posted 11 August 2016 - 04:49 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 11 August 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

It's pretty easy, especially to plays like Dusty, you or I.

 

Sure but can you say that for the general public?

 

Why the HF stall is so broken is because everyone can do it as long as they fly straight up.

Yes this is an exploit but it still require some level of skill or knowing how to dodge.

View PostFadStatement, on 11 August 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

You have something of a point there and I could almost follow this line of reasoning, but the truth is it doesn't take much risk or skill to circle the pillars on Plateau while the bots just sequentially derp into the terrain.  There's really no needle-threading NOE flying needed and they're both pretty much exploiting flaws.

 

Thing of it is though, these have persisted so long now that maybe looking at these as exploits at this point is misguided.  A more realistic if perhaps sadder way of looking at is that the game just permanently changed to be stupid now.

 

Not every map is suspect able to mountainous terrains.

There are maps with open ends and no where to hide. 

Bot stalling exploit works on every map.

 






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