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Crashing Bots: A Pictorial of Insanity

bot crashing behavior

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Caecias #1 Posted 04 August 2016 - 08:38 PM

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With the multiple posts regarding abhorrent bot behavior, particularly surrounding crashing and decision making behavior, I am starting this thread to bring it all together under one hat; this thread focussing on highlighting the frequent crashing... 

 

Here are some of the threads to consider regarding what I would call a bug (some posted in other sub-forums):

 

http://forum.worldof...g-far-too-often

http://forum.worldof...-for-both-sides

http://forum.worldof...now-gone-stupid

 

 

My first post is an example that has plagued me far too much: my team winning, one or two planes left to kill, and all of my surviving bots crash inexplicably, resulting in a superiority loss as the clock accelerates too fast to catch.  This is beyond the pale.  I have lost more than a dozen matches (12+ / ~2400 = .5% to .7%) due to this and it is infuriating. Not one of these bots are attack aircraft, stuck in odd geography like high canyon walls, are mostly undamaged in any manner, yet all crashed within a 30 second time frame from my last kill; this happens to be a pic of a match where other humans, and these crashing bots, dominated the match. 

 

 

I encourage all of you to share screenshots and recorded matches as you deem appropriate regarding the crashing of bots. 

 

 


Edited by Caecias, 05 August 2016 - 12:27 AM.

 


Steel_bomber_ #2 Posted 04 August 2016 - 08:47 PM

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If only those developers/ game creators or moderators would play this game all of this would not be necessary.

We all have noticed this, way too often.

 

Ghostprime will you forward this issue please?

 

I am not gonna waist my time on all these screenshots! Too much work and negative energy.


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losttwo #3 Posted 04 August 2016 - 08:49 PM

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So what is the problem ?

You do realize it is not a bug.


Edited by losttwo, 04 August 2016 - 08:52 PM.


Caecias #4 Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:17 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 04 August 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

So what is the problem ?

You do realize it is not a bug.

 

I competed fairly, with honor, by the rules, to get far in those matches....  and deserved the opportunity to close out the win with my team; to see four planes crash inexplicably in 30 seconds, when I indeed counted on their effort to get this far, reeks of a 3 card Monte game I do not want to particpate in.  There in lies the rub.

 

I dont realize its not a bug - it very well could be an unintended consequence of shotty AI, or, as I think you are suggesting here(?), an intended mustering of unfair, unknown factors of slighted "competition". Its an analogue to tilting in pin ball - I am not allowed to pick up a corner for an advantage; nor do I think the AI should be able to, either. 

 

Respectfully disagree with your indifference here, and do understand the point you are trying to make. 

 

Best,

C-

 

 


Edited by Caecias, 05 August 2016 - 12:29 AM.

 


mnbv_fockewulfe #5 Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:28 PM

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View PostCaecias, on 04 August 2016 - 09:17 PM, said:

 

I competed fairly, with honor, by the rules, to get far in those matches....  and deserved the opportunity to close out the win with my team; to see four planes crash inexplicably in 30 seconds, when I indeed counted on their effort to get this far, reeks of a 3 card Monte game I do not want to particpate in.  There in lies the rub.

 

I dont realize its not a bug - it very well could be an unintended consequence of shotty AI, or, as I think you are suggesting here(?), an intended mustering of unfair, unknown factors of slighted "competition". Its an analogue to tilting in pin ball - I am not alolowed to pick up a corner for an advantage; nor do I think the AI should be able to, either. 

 

Respectfully disagree with your indifference here, and do understand the point you are trying to make. 

 

Best,

C-

 

 

 

Take a closer look at lost's post and you will find that it reeks of sarcasm.

 

The most hilarious part of your screenshot is that it is on the pacific map which has basically no terrain to crash into. :D

 

One time I flew so close to a friendly bot that it crashed into a mountain.:kamikaze:


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


EspressoForHammy #6 Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:30 PM

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Bots crash because their programmed ability/distance to react to the "Bitchin' Betty" ground approach warning coincides with airspeed and "where" the bots "think" the ground is located. It's just programming by WG employees, reacting to a low population. This is programming stacked on programming, and the consequences are us, when the bots don't work like we think they should.

 

View PostCaecias, on 04 August 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

... it very well could be an unintended consequence of shotty AI, or, as I think you are suggesting here(?)...

 

Shoddy. The word is shoddy. I think your multiple degrees are showing.

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Eye_dialect

 

Read this link to understand why people misspell words in dialect. Normally this is done on purpose, but I doubt you did that. More than likely you just hadn't written that word before.


Edited by EspressoForHammy, 04 August 2016 - 09:42 PM.

"More fun than a three-legged mouse covered in hash oil."  "This is like taking my p38 through a cloud of loose stools... watta mess."

- A55 BOTlistic Commie (Both quotes!)

 


Caecias #7 Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:34 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 04 August 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

 

Take a closer look at lost's post and you will find that it reeks of sarcasm.

 

The most hilarious part of your screenshot is that it is on the pacific map which has basically no terrain to crash into. :D

 

One time I flew so close to a friendly bot that it crashed into a mountain.:kamikaze:

 

I have learned that there is a dual meaning in every post losttwo publishes.  I have also learned to ignore the sarcasm altogehter - yes I know its there.  Poe's law, as it were, drips from every post he makes... and I take it in jest.  I don't mind the sarcasm, but...  oh well.  I entertain the posts only as an exercise to tease out some truth, even if its devil's advocacy through sardonic discourse.

 

 

Anyone have any pics to share?  I was hoping to keep this thread on track to gather some instances of the issue at hand. 

 

(Its all good though; hf, happy hunting. )

 

 


Edited by Caecias, 04 August 2016 - 09:38 PM.

 


losttwo #8 Posted 04 August 2016 - 11:40 PM

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Forget it , I cant get the entire thing to post so deleted it.

 

 

 

 


Edited by losttwo, 04 August 2016 - 11:49 PM.


losttwo #9 Posted 04 August 2016 - 11:43 PM

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strange all the text wont show up on my post

losttwo #10 Posted 04 August 2016 - 11:48 PM

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:child:

Edited by losttwo, 04 August 2016 - 11:50 PM.


losttwo #11 Posted 04 August 2016 - 11:51 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 04 August 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

 

Take a closer look at lost's post and you will find that it reeks of sarcasm.

 

The most hilarious part of your screenshot is that it is on the pacific map which has basically no terrain to crash into. :D

 

One time I flew so close to a friendly bot that it crashed into a mountain.:kamikaze:

 

You caught that did you :medal: you sir deserve a cookie


Caecias #12 Posted 05 August 2016 - 12:18 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 04 August 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Forget it , I cant get the entire thing to post so deleted it.

 

View Postlosttwo, on 04 August 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

strange all the text wont show up on my post

 

View Postlosttwo, on 04 August 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

:child:

 

Here, I'll help as it was saved via email:

 

Block Quote - losttwo reply saved via email

"I understand the frustration about bots crashing and giving you the missed  opportunity to achieve an ACE via supremacy win. 
However, the one thing I have learned from Open Beta to present is that it is not about what your team mates ( bots or human ) do in the course of battle. 
It is however about your performance in battle. 
 
I got over the emotions of watching players/ AI not go after AA first as a priority or even Heavy fighters as a priority. 
Often times not even going high in a Heavy fighter opting for a " I am a bomber " syndrome. 
 
If you watch your replay I am sure you will find where you may have needed to engage sooner or perhaps pulled off a target to engage something else. 
In the above match posted it would have been a close call but the GA's are easy kills and you should have the airspeed to gain distance on the I-17.
You still had a chance at a win. Then again I am making assumptions about the outcome of the match based on lack of evidence presented. 
 
You did say you fought fair and honorable and DESERVE to close out with a win. By what standards do you measure being deserving. 
You have 1 kill worth 15 points ( fighter ) That doesn't deserve the win. However I have not seen the replay and in all fairness do not know how the match went. 
But a picture paints 1000 words and the bots did most of the work ( so it seems ).
 
I would enjoy the opportunity to see the replay and even provide my own opinion about the match. 
I do know I learn from other people critiquing my antics and getting a different set of eyes, 
 
The best way to never notice bots crashing or chasing a plane into enemy AA is to ignore what they do and do what you think is going to give you the win."

 

 

 

Respectfully - What that picture doesn't show is that I had 5 assists, spent a good amount of time evasive flying while they cleared my tail, and indeed deserved the opportunity to win by paying forward to my teammates that did get credit for the kills. I had 2x the damage then any other plane as well... which is why I was really disturbed when considering 4 bot crashes in aggregate, ​all at the same time.

 

I had no chance to win after four senseless bot crashes - I killed one more bomber, and damaged two bombers before superiority time ran out, as they were on the other side of the map.  I believed I could have won - I deserved the time to do so. That is the real denotation of what I meant by "deserved". As I noted, I deserved the opportunity to win, not "deserved to win".

 

Now I am not saying there isn't room for improvement; there is always room for improvement, learning, and growing - its my life's mantra; its the only thing I have remaining, in fact.  

 

But what I will say about a picture is worth a thousand words...  you are not telling the whole story with any amount of banter:  Those are the words of the audiences that will gaze, ponder, subject, interject, assume, and more...  never really getting it right, but yes, adding to the truth.  I could probably find a dozen or two dozen things to do better in any battle; that misses the point of the post, and the picture. So while an audience will add their thousand words, its not until the author / artist reveals her true intention, completely, that the truth be told. I thought I made that significant point in the OP though - its not about me, its about the bots crashing.  (I don't record battles)

 

I appreciate the added comments. 

 

Best,

C-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Caecias, 05 August 2016 - 12:26 AM.

 


losttwo #13 Posted 05 August 2016 - 12:23 AM

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Thanks for help me post my comment. Do not know why the full thing would not post.

Caecias #14 Posted 05 August 2016 - 12:30 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 04 August 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

 

You caught that did you :medal: you sir deserve a cookie

 

Poe's Law.

 

Help us out with your intentions. 


Edited by Caecias, 05 August 2016 - 12:31 AM.

 


Caecias #15 Posted 05 August 2016 - 12:31 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 04 August 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

Thanks for help me post my comment. Do not know why the full thing would not post.

 

I have had that happen...  not sure what it is but I think its related to server session snafus with wordpress blogs. 

 

Cheers!

 


 


mullyman #16 Posted 02 September 2016 - 06:56 PM

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mullyman #17 Posted 14 September 2016 - 03:41 PM

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Caecias #18 Posted 14 May 2017 - 06:23 PM

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Bumping this Because I know all of you still experience this.... the primary reason for everyone's frustrations; why numbers will never exceed the paltry max of 600 (with exceptions for super special events...); why enthusiasm of old players is simply waning in disgust; why I spend more time now in MMPOGs that actually do care about fair consistent competition (and apparently the 100ks of users of other games feel the same way...)

 

First, 4 bot crashes as an entire team of bots dives to a GA without instruction to do so, in the first minute of the game...

 

 

And next, just a minute or so later, two more sacrificed, a human over run by another human (the only legitimate kill in the sequence), and a fifth crash, followed by yet another bot sacrifice... 

 

 

How is any of this actually scored as balanced? As competitive?  Don't tell me this is a "feature" or in any way resembles reality  - if you want to appeal to realism at least get the planes aligned with historical norms, which we all know are sacrificed for what WG calls "balance".

 

No.  this is about horrible AI, atrocious path finding decision trees, and the game of Three Card Monte that is exacted upon us daily.  So obvious is the volatile RNG that says "you are good for the day", or "completely screwed for the day".... nothing random at play.  No real competition; just scripted debauchery.

 

That is why the numbers of this game suffer.  Innately, everyone that logs in knows this, regardless of their proficiency developed in-game.  It's not a place where you can say "I'll be challenged fairly and with legitimacy" each time you participate.

 

Otherwise, you wouldn't see the vehement backlash that results in self-organized player versus player tournaments, and the constant, incessant ranting about matching making, balancing, and so called "AI" of artificial opponents.

 

It's a shame too, because the aesthetics are beautiful, plane mechanics are accommodating and easy, concept is outstanding with huge potential, yet the executed competitive environment is an absolute sham.


Edited by Caecias, 15 May 2017 - 01:10 AM.

 


GhostPrime #19 Posted 15 May 2017 - 07:52 PM

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View PostCaecias, on 14 May 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

Bumping this Because I know all of you still experience this.... the primary reason for everyone's frustrations; why numbers will never exceed the paltry max of 600 (with exceptions for super special events...); why enthusiasm of old players is simply waning in disgust; why I spend more time now in MMPOGs that actually do care about fair consistent competition (and apparently the 100ks of users of other games feel the same way...)

 

First, 4 bot crashes as an entire team of bots dives to a GA without instruction to do so, in the first minute of the game...

 

 

 

And next, just a minute or so later, two more sacrificed, a human over run by another human (the only legitimate kill in the sequence), and a fifth crash, followed by yet another bot sacrifice... 

 

 

 

How is any of this actually scored as balanced? As competitive?  Don't tell me this is a "feature" or in any way resembles reality  - if you want to appeal to realism at least get the planes aligned with historical norms, which we all know are sacrificed for what WG calls "balance".

 

No.  this is about horrible AI, atrocious path finding decision trees, and the game of Three Card Monte that is exacted upon us daily.  So obvious is the volatile RNG that says "you are good for the day", or "completely screwed for the day".... nothing random at play.  No real competition; just scripted debauchery.

 

That is why the numbers of this game suffer.  Innately, everyone that logs in knows this, regardless of their proficiency developed in-game.  It's not a place where you can say "I'll be challenged fairly and with legitimacy" each time you participate.

 

Otherwise, you wouldn't see the vehement backlash that results in self-organized player versus player tournaments, and the constant, incessant ranting about matching making, balancing, and so called "AI" of artificial opponents.

 

It's a shame too, because the aesthetics are beautiful, plane mechanics are accommodating and easy, concept is outstanding with huge potential, yet the executed competitive environment is an absolute sham.

 

Thanks for sharing the images. I do know its been an issue with bots crashing into the ground. Do you have the replay of this match? Does the replay show the behavior? 



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Caecias #20 Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:38 PM

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View PostGhostPrime, on 15 May 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

 

Thanks for sharing the images. I do know its been an issue with bots crashing into the ground. Do you have the replay of this match? Does the replay show the behavior? 

 

I do capture matches these days... and I am fairly certain I have this particular match saved... along with several others relevant to the thread topic.  Yet can you provide me guidance on the best way to post video replays here in the forum?   (I use imgur for static pics)

 

I can see that replay's call the video engine from WoWp for playback...  but how do I embed (best practices for this forum) those videos here? I do realize I can send you the file as well...  which I will do when I find it, but I would also like to post various videos (fun and issues alike) here in the forum. 

 

 


 






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